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Water cooling stuff

G

gotensan01

Golden Member
I was just wondering if there are any problems with having multiple radiator/fan sections in a water cooling kit. I have a coolermaster wavemaster case and there are two 80mm case fan openings, one at top and one in back. My plan was to get two 120mm BIX radiators and connect them in series to a water cooling setup. Assuming that I can fit these radiators using shrouds and what not, would this be in effect like having a BIX2? Another concern is wether or not the dual BIX setup would create a large pressure drop compared to a BIX2.
 
depends on pump. and well there are even dangerden/thermochill etc radiators that are 3x 120mm long🙂 u can get 1-3x 120mm
 
From what I've seen of radiator spec's a single dual fan unit has more than 2x the cooling of a single unit. While you might get close to the same cooling with two single fan units, it would be more space (and cost) efficient to get a single double. Even if it means whipping out a cutter and using it on the case. I'll probably be doing that myself, since my case uses the plastic fan mounts. If the radiator can't pop into those (which it probably can't) I'll have to cut away at least someplace on the case. I just need to decide WHERE to make the cut.
 
Radiators are designed to be as free-flowing as possible, pressure shouldn't be an issue. As far as whether 2 BIX rads in series will be equal to a BIX 2? Sort of, probably. A great deal of heat will be dissipated before reaching the second rad. And since the Delta-T of the coolant and rad will be much less pronounced, the second rad won't work as well as it could. You'll have plenty of surface area though. Are you planning on cutting the 80mm exhaust ports to match the rads? What are you planning on cooling?
 
Originally posted by: akira34
From what I've seen of radiator spec's a single dual fan unit has more than 2x the cooling of a single unit. While you might get close to the same cooling with two single fan units, it would be more space (and cost) efficient to get a single double. Even if it means whipping out a cutter and using it on the case. I'll probably be doing that myself, since my case uses the plastic fan mounts. If the radiator can't pop into those (which it probably can't) I'll have to cut away at least someplace on the case. I just need to decide WHERE to make the cut.
Click to expand...

If you're going with a BIX 2 you'd more than likely be better off mounting it on the top of your case. That's what I plan to do for my next refit.
 
I don't think there's enough room to fit it in the top of my case... I have a low clearance for the keyboard try (above the tower) and not a lot of room above the PSU to fit it. I do have ~4" beside the case that I could use for the system and have it there. I'll still need/want to mount the res outside the case so that I can easily check the level and fill as needed. Plus, going that way will eliminate any chance of it taking up space I'll want to use later. I'm already thinking of installing more hard drives (bringing me up to four total), so I'll need the area the 3-1/2" bay res takes up. I also plan to install more optical drives [eventually] so the two remaining 5-1/4" bays are needed. Of course, I probably could put the res in the top of the case, where the first optical drive is, shift them down, and still have room for one more... Actually, that would probably work the best, and I'd only need to externally mount the res... Of course, the only problem now is cutting the vent holes for the radiator fans, laying out the lines, and making sure I don't have too long of a run.

BTW HW, when the pumps list 'to head' is that the total tubing run length, or to the point where it comes back to the pump??
 
Sweet, not only did I get a bunch of good responses but I also got one from the infamous HardWarrior. Here's the deal. As I have mentioned above, I bought the coolermaster wavemaster case. It's just barely larger than a regular mid-sized case.
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=11-119-023&depa=0

Here's what I was looking at for a setup:
Swiftech CPU and GPU water blocks
BIX/BIX2 rad
either eheim 1250 or hydor l30 pump
tygon 1/2" tubing
home built reservoir

I have 2 hard drives in the 3.5" bays and 2 devices in the 5.25" bays. I don't mind cutting my nice case up at all. But even if move the 2 cd devices down to the bottom two bays, I don't think it will be enough room on top for rad, maybe shroud, and fans. Btw I want to keep everything within the case, I don't really want the fans mounted on the outside of the case while the radiator is inside.

Originally posted by: HardWarrior
Are you planning on cutting the 80mm exhaust ports to match the rads? What are you planning on cooling?
Click to expand...

I don't have any problems cutting out the 80mm ports to fit a 120mm rad. However I thought I could use an 80mm fan and attach a 80to120mm shroud. Then I can connect the 120mm rad to the shroud. I'll have the 80mm fan pulling the hot air out of the radiator. If need be I could then install a 120mm fan at the other end of the rad...but I don't think I'll need to.

I'm cooling a athlon64 2800+ (s754) and an ATI radeon 9800 pro. I have an ASUS k8v motherboard (not deluxe) I haven't water-cooled before or overclocked before. I was thinking of trying to get around a 400mhz boost from processor and don't know about vid card.

Any advice would help because this case is so darn small. If any requests it, I could try to upload some pics of my current comp setup.
 
Originally posted by: akira34
BTW HW, when the pumps list 'to head' is that the total tubing run length, or to the point where it comes back to the pump??
Click to expand...

A pumps "head" rating is how much water, in feet, it can push straight up until it stops. GPH is how much the pump can circulate, head is how much force is behind that circulation. More is better up to a point. About 6-feet is great. Head isn't as important if you have low-restriction blocks and limit vertical plumbing. Actual performance in a loop is better because the pump doesn't just push water, it pulls it too.
 
gotensan;

Infamous huh? 🙂 80-to-120 fan shroud/adapter? I can't say I've ever seem anything like that before. Worse case you could make one. With a high speed 80mm fan you may not loose much, or any performance, but it's going to be noisy. Putting a 120mm fan in push would help greatly (ggod idea), but the CFM rating for both fans would have to be close to avoid wearing one of them out prematurely. I saw a mod for a case just like yours where the guy replaced the fancy connector panel on the top with an 120mm rad. That's an option if you don't might cutting AND loosing the panel. TBH, a single BIX, top mounted and with two fans should net you the sort of cooling you need, even if you OC. You'd get even better performance if you slapped in a nice, painted heatercore. And man, that's one BRIGHT case you've got there. 😉
 
Originally posted by: HardWarrior
...but the CFM rating for both fans would have to be close to avoid wearing one of them out prematurely...You'd get even better performance if you slapped in a nice, painted heatercore. And man, that's one BRIGHT case you've got there. 😉
Click to expand...

First, I think newegg used some hardcore lighting when they took pics of the case because it ain't that bright 😎. Secondly, I will definetly try to match flow rates if I do the two fan idea.

Lastly, what's the deal with heatercores. I've been trying to read up on them but I feel like it is a risk using them. There is really no guarantee in performance is there? How efficient are heatercores anyways. Is it proven that in general most heatercores are more efficient than any rad? I just think that since you aren't buying a certain brand of heatercore you can't really get a feel of what they can truly offer in terms of dissapating heat. Also I thought the BIX was basically built to mirror heatercores, am I wrong?
 
Cores are the rad of choice for many water-cooling people. They're car heatercores, of various sizes, that people refit for computer use. They're very high-flow and have dense internal structures that afford great cooling per square inch of surface area. Whether this efficiency is proven or not, frankly I've never seen hard specs on any of them. Beyond the fact that they would look to "industrial" in my case, this is the reason I didn't go with one. Designed-for-computer rads proudly state their numbers, and I'm a sucker for that. I'm sure cores function well though, or people wouldn't be so fanatical about them. No, you're right. A BIX is the same basic design as a core, just with better looks and high-tech tweaks.
 
frozencpu has fan adapters... You can adapt 80mm fan mounts to take a 120mm or even 150mm (as well as 92mm) fans. They have them in cheap plastic, polycarbonate, and aluminum (some quality machined items from the solid aluminum too)... Just be aware that they will add to the amount of clearance you'll need for the item attached.

Thanks for the 411 on the pump action. So, if I have my pump at the bottom of the case, the radiator at the top, processor where it falls (towards the radiator, but not that far) with total case height of 21" then the L35 pump I was looking at should be fine. I'll be going with the 3/8" tubing mostly because that will require no (or very few) adaption to items. I plan to put the res (now) on the right side, towards the front of the case so that the in/out fittings are closer to the pump. That should help with the line length that is on the pump up before it goes to suck in...

I'll be getting some distilled water, from a trustworthy source, for the fluid and then use the addative from frozencpu that protects against corrosion from different metals. I think I'm going to map out where things will go inside the case and use some string to figure out how long the tubing will need to be so that I can make it as efficient as possible. I'm also going to need to get some guide items (larger tubing, grommets, or such) to protect the tubing as it goes in and out of the case (for that short distance). I'm thinking of the rubber grommets along with small pieces of automotive hose to protect the tubing. That should be more than enough to protect the tubing so that I don't create any potential leak spots in the system...

Do you happen to know WHERE you can get the liquid that won't fry electronics if it falls onto it?? For some of us, that would make the decision a lot easier. Especially if we don't have to worry too much (and get an ulcer) over every fitting being 110%. Granted, I'm thinking of getting a spare PSU and testing the entire system while it's still outside the case to make sure there are no leaks. I'll then install it with removing as few items as possible from the loop (to keep good connections good) and then fill and bleed it... How much fluid do you think I'll need to have on hand to fill the system (as I sent you in the email)????
 
Are you using a bay-res and if so what size? Here's the FluidXP site. Here's InertX. You should be able to scope a retailer from either. Regardless of the coolant you use you should be prepared to make your fittings leak proof. It isn't hard, you just have take the extra step. You also don't have to worry too much about protecting the tubing. It's pretty tough, you'll be surprised how much. If you plan on testing the loop outside of your box, FCPU has this cute little insulated jumper that'll let you rig an ATX PSU easily.
 
I have a PSU tester that should do the trick too... 😀 I plan on using the external res that's 50mm X 280mm holding about 280ml (however much that is in oz.)...
 
I'll just have to figure out how much fluid the system will take... I'm seriously thinking of investing in some of the FluidXP so that I DON'T need to worry if a drop of two leaks out before I get a tight seal someplace. Of course, with as expensive as that stuff is, I'll want to make sure there are no leaks... Still, not needing to replace it for ~3 years, not having to worry about mixing chemicals, and all the other things is very attractive...
 
I read a review on FXP to today and it might not be as expensive as I thought. The problem was that the reviewer was strangely vague on price/quantity. If it's close to reasonable I'm going to switch over once I install my valves.
 
So after doing a lot of research on measurements of components and looking around my case forever, I think I have a fairly final list of the setup.

dtekcustoms Pro 120 rad & shroud rad
swiftech cpu waterblock mcw5000 or mcw6002
swiftech gpu waterblock mcw50
dtek dual floppy res or homemade res
pump ???
misc things (tubing, additives, fans, etc)

With the above setup, I should be able to fit everything into my case...barely. If I can find a case I'll make my own res but I don't think I'll find one.

I still need help with two things. The first is that I've been reading but cannot find what the difference is between the two CPU blocks (mcw5000 & mcw6002). Seems to me like the 6002 is just newer and they both perform about the same. Am I wrong? The second thing is I basically decided on the hydor L20 pump but still have questions. The flow rate is comparable to the other pumps I've been looking at like the swiftech mcp-600. The only difference is that the L20 has a lower delivery head (50"). I could go with the L30 but I choose to stick with the L20 because it is smaller. Suprisingly I think the small diference in size will make a big difference of wether or not this setup will fit in my comp. The only drawbacks are that I think the L20 is going to be lacking in performance and I don't like the power not being able to connect to my power supply. Help with the cpu block and pump will be much appreciated.
 
The 6002 is a truly great mass-produced block, according to the reviews I've read. You won't go wrong if you purchase it. As for the pump, read this and tell me what you think. I bought the D4 on faith, there were no reviews at the time, but I've been pleasantly surprised by its performance and solid construction. It's also both tiny and powerful. Which is a great combination. Am I right to think that you're going with a heatercore? If so, all I can say is good. I'm looking forward to your review.
 
The link above is a little messed up, I think you meant this right? I am impressed with the test results of the DD pump. The don't really want to spend $80 on a pump though, but maybe I'll change my mind. Have you heard anything about this pump? I like this pump a lot but am worried if this will end up being a choke point in my setup.

I'm pretty sure the radiator I listed above in a previous post is in fact a heatercore. And yes I am glad that I finally found one that will fit in my case.
 
Sorry about that, yeah, that's the one. Actually I have read some reviews of the C-System pump. One should drive a medium to low restriction loop easily. Did you know that you can hook them up in series or parallel for either much higher head or flow? Very SEXY, huh? I might switch over to a pair of them if I can talk Santa (my wife) into porking out the cash. 🙂

If you can, don't scrimp on your pump. It's the heart of a water-cooling system and needs to be reliable.

I'm glad you got there dude. :thumbsup:
 
thnx. I agree, after some thought I decided not to go short on the pump. The only problem I see with the C-system pump is that it is recommended that you use 3/8" tubes. So I think maybe they're saying it isn't good to use 1/2"? I want everything in 1/2" so that there isn't a choke caused by a tight area in the tube. Other than this problem, in my opinion it seems like a good pump.

If I went with a pump that uses a power cord that connects to a wall is there any way of converting that to a plug that will fit the 12V power supply plugs?
 
Well, in places like Germany they swear by the pretty-boy 3/8 inch ID way. American's seem to prefer the brute-force 1/2 inch approach. The difference is flow. I hadn't noticed that the C-Systems pump was native 3/8, but you can just get ID size changer barbs.

I'm not sure about this one. You can get something like this to make a AC pump easier to deal with. Why not just get a 12v pump like the MCP600?
 
The only thing about going with a 12v pump is that it seems like you're limiting your possible choices. If I'm not mistaken, aren't all hydor and eheim pumps ac powered? I don't like how big the eheim pumps are. I don't are how good they are, I don't want a pump that's as big as my psu.

Does anyone know where you can buy nice containers to make your own reservoirs? For anyone that doesn't know, here's what seems to be a great website for custom reservoirs res.
 
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