Water Cooling, prebuilt or DiY?

[Foxconn]

Ive been comming to terms with myself the past few days on how much im addicted to overclocking and that the higher the clock the higher the temp (duh) and that i would really like to shed some heat of my processer, gpu, and chipset by converting to liquid cooling.

Since im uber new to this should i go with a prebuilt set, ive been looking at the thermaltake Big Water Series, and just add a chipset block and gpu block from danger den, or should i just go with making my own kit, im really new at this but i pick up on how to do something very very quickly. IM going for style aswell as performance too, and somewhat of a budget (no more than $250) or should i even go with water cooling at all?

all suggestions appreciated, and /or temps on your water cooled system

 

[pkme2]

If you new to water-builts and you have an overheating problem, then pre built is the best way to go.
But only go there, if you have a problem. It doesn't look with your setup you would. With all your present fans (hope there're Yate Loons) your air circulation looks FANtastic!

The only reason you might want to go there, is maybe you have a lot of money in your pocket and you want to spend it.
I would up your processor, say to a 3800+ or up your GPU. Just a hint.......

 

[soloz2]

Originally posted by: Foxconn
Ive been comming to terms with myself the past few days on how much im addicted to overclocking and that the higher the clock the higher the temp (duh) and that i would really like to shed some heat of my processer, gpu, and chipset by converting to liquid cooling.

Since im uber new to this should i go with a prebuilt set, ive been looking at the thermaltake Big Water Series, and just add a chipset block and gpu block from danger den, or should i just go with making my own kit, im really new at this but i pick up on how to do something very very quickly. IM going for style aswell as performance too, and somewhat of a budget (no more than $250) or should i even go with water cooling at all?

all suggestions appreciated, and /or temps on your water cooled system

a couple precautions to the TT big water.

1. the big water and big water se are not much better than a big typhoon
2. you HAVE to get one of the newer revision models to get upgraded tubing and an upgraded pump. the older versions use 1/4" tubing so you will not really be able to upgrade your blocks or add DD blocks like you talked about. To do so you will need to start over from scratch.
3. the big water 745 is the only big water kit that is even worthy of being purchased.

Generally you can get much, much greater performance with a custom kit, and typically save some money too. A kit offers ease and one box with everything you need.
The best kit you can get is the Swiftech Apex Ultra. It costs about $250, which would be in your budget.

You do not need to wc your chipset, You can, but chipsets don't really get hot enough. an upgraded air cooler will do fine. I am using an evercool VC-RE on my chipset.

Now, for custom.... you can get the best performance here

Cpu block: Swiftech Apogee or DD TDX - $50
Gpu block: DD maze 4 $50
pump: Swiftech MCP655 or DD D5 (same thing) $80 - there are good cheaper pumps as well
rad: double heater core - can be purchased from autozone for $22 and modded with 1/2" barbs for cheap. otherwise you can buy from DD for $35 pre-modded. You can buy a DD fan shroud, or make a cheap one from plastic containers
if you want to go looks over performance then get a black ice pro 2 or double swiftech rad
tubing: masterkleer 7/16" ID tubing is good and cheap!
go with a T line instead of a res
then get some distilled water and some swiftech hydrex or zerex super coolant for additive

 

[Billb2]

"If you want to go looks over performance then get a black ice pro 2..."
The BIX3 will offer better cooling at the price of more noise. The Pro series has wider fin spacing for low noise applications.

"distilled water and some swiftech hydrex or zerex super coolant for additive..."
Not deionized, any automotive antifreeze will do (to prevent corrosion), 5% if all copper, 10% if mixed metals. Add a drop or 3 of Iodine to keep the "critters" at bay.

 

[TrevorRC]

Billb2, the advantage of 3x120mm radiators isn't increased cooling capacity, it is SILENCE. You run 3 38mm fans undervolted to 5; and get the same deltas as if you ran 2 at 7/12 [With half the noise.]

If you are using all copper in your system, you don't need anything. Pure distilled water is fine.

Same with brass. Aluminum is a different ball game though.

Soloz--The Apogee and TDX are BOTH inferior to the Storm block, especially at higher flow [[Need a better pump for higher flow, though. More head.]

Maze4 is about as good as it gets, though some people are mentioning the new Silverprop might outdo it.

Heatercores really aren't that attractive, and with fins as dense as theirs, the noise level is atrocious [[Need great fans to put air through them.]]
A swiftech MCR220 will perform on par with a heatercore, no modifications necessary.

You can mount everything interally with a RadGrillz. [ACRyan.]

You can buy Primoflex stuff at some mod shops... as cheap as (or cheaper) than masterkleer (and substantially cheaper than tygon) with the same bend radii.
Vouyermods has it, I believe.

T-Line is always good, but make sure you use a cap like the ones availible @ DD. They really do help.
--Trevor

 

[soloz2]

Originally posted by: TrevorRC
Billb2, the advantage of 3x120mm radiators isn't increased cooling capacity, it is SILENCE. You run 3 38mm fans undervolted to 5; and get the same deltas as if you ran 2 at 7/12 [With half the noise.]

If you are using all copper in your system, you don't need anything. Pure distilled water is fine.

Same with brass. Aluminum is a different ball game though.

Soloz--The Apogee and TDX are BOTH inferior to the Storm block, especially at higher flow [[Need a better pump for higher flow, though. More head.]

Maze4 is about as good as it gets, though some people are mentioning the new Silverprop might outdo it.

Heatercores really aren't that attractive, and with fins as dense as theirs, the noise level is atrocious [[Need great fans to put air through them.]]
A swiftech MCR220 will perform on par with a heatercore, no modifications necessary.

You can mount everything interally with a RadGrillz. [ACRyan.]

You can buy Primoflex stuff at some mod shops... as cheap as (or cheaper) than masterkleer (and substantially cheaper than tygon) with the same bend radii.
Vouyermods has it, I believe.

T-Line is always good, but make sure you use a cap like the ones availible @ DD. They really do help.
--Trevor

yes, the storm is better than the TDX or apogee, but only marginally... and to many the cost simply does not outweigh the performance gain. Often the difference isn't more than a degree or two.

Heater cores are excellent! I have two TT thunderblade fans that are fairly quiet and I get great temps with my loop! granted, the BIP and black ice gt can use quieter fans, but a double heater core will also outperform just about any double rad... they just don't look near as good.

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: soloz2yes, the storm is better than the TDX or apogee, but only marginally... and to many the cost simply does not outweigh the performance gain. Often the difference isn't more than a degree or two.

Being that the Storm is a true impingment block, it's hard to compare it apples-to-apples style with the TDX. In my experience with, it's far superior (on the order of 5-7c) to the TDX when given the pressure it needs.

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: TrevorRC
Billb2, the advantage of 3x120mm radiators isn't increased cooling capacity, it is SILENCE. You run 3 38mm fans undervolted to 5; and get the same deltas as if you ran 2 at 7/12 [With half the noise.]

The potential for quiet operation is a facilty of any rad. 120.3's do indeed provide more raw cooling capacity by virtue of their larger surface area in comparison to smaller units.

 

[soloz2]

Originally posted by: HardWarrior

Originally posted by: soloz2yes, the storm is better than the TDX or apogee, but only marginally... and to many the cost simply does not outweigh the performance gain. Often the difference isn't more than a degree or two.

Being that the Storm is a true impingment block, it's hard to compare it apples-to-apples style with the TDX. In my experience with, it's far superior (on the order of 5-7c) to the TDX when given the pressure it needs.

yes, it has the potential.... if you pick out your parts right and know what you're doing when you set up your loop.

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: soloz2

Originally posted by: HardWarrior

Originally posted by: soloz2yes, the storm is better than the TDX or apogee, but only marginally... and to many the cost simply does not outweigh the performance gain. Often the difference isn't more than a degree or two.

Being that the Storm is a true impingment block, it's hard to compare it apples-to-apples style with the TDX. In my experience with, it's far superior (on the order of 5-7c) to the TDX when given the pressure it needs.

yes, it has the potential.... if you pick out your parts right and know what you're doing when you set up your loop.

True enough, it isn't a newbie block. To say that I've been pleased with my Storm would be an understatement. I've had it apart twice since plumbing it, to see if it was clogging. It's still clean as a whistle, though I attribute that to the fact that I don't do meatball coolant mixtures.

 

[soloz2]

Originally posted by: HardWarrior

Originally posted by: soloz2

Originally posted by: HardWarrior

Originally posted by: soloz2yes, the storm is better than the TDX or apogee, but only marginally... and to many the cost simply does not outweigh the performance gain. Often the difference isn't more than a degree or two.

Being that the Storm is a true impingment block, it's hard to compare it apples-to-apples style with the TDX. In my experience with, it's far superior (on the order of 5-7c) to the TDX when given the pressure it needs.

yes, it has the potential.... if you pick out your parts right and know what you're doing when you set up your loop.

True enough, it isn't a newbie block. To say that I've been pleased with my Storm would be an understatement. I've had it apart twice since plumbing it, to see if it was clogging. It's still clean as a whistle, though I attribute that to the fact that I don't do meatball coolant mixtures.

yeah, I may upgrade to a storm one day, but after I've had a lot more experience with WC. I'm still on my first build. yeah, I've switched out my pump bc my hydor L35 was louder than I thought it would be, and ditched my bay res for a T line... and got rid of my polarflo tt gpu block in favor of a maze 4, but in all actuality I'm on my first build. I"ll be coming up to my well... probably 2nd official build very soon. I have a new case and a black ice gt 360 xflo rad on the way that I'll be installing everything into. so by the time I'm done w/ modding the case and building the only thing that will be original from my first build will be the apogee.

the apogee is a great block, and probably best for beginners. the storm is better, but it requires a certain type of loop to work effectivly. the people who complained about marginally better or worse temps w/ a storm probably didn't know how to use it! lol.

but I honestly think that the apogee block would be much better for foxconn. it's his first build. the apogee is cheaper and will yeild great temps! I think the apogee is the best block on the market for a budget or a first time build

 

[TrevorRC]

The reason why the polarflo didn't perform as well as you'dve liked was because your pump probably has an insufficient amount of head pressure.

There really isn't a certain type of loop--you just need to make sure you have enough 'push' behind the pump to keep water moving. [Impingement is highly restrictive.]

No difference between a first-time watercooler and a 100th.... just need enough research before hand to know what to do, what to buy, and so on.

BTW, you might want to change your email in your sig to soloz 210 [at] gREMOVEmail.com

Spam-bots crawl the web. Not a good thing for your inbox

--Trevor

Edit: BTW Foxconn, Deltas are more important.
--T

 

[HardWarrior]

Theory is all well and good Trevor, but practice can be downright embarassing. I'd like to think that I'm more savvy for having made a real-world mistake or two, and that you simply can't get from just reading. As far as the Polarflo, it's positively free-flowing compared to the Storm and actually performs quite well with moderate pressure.

Solo, are you currently using an Apogee? If so, how's the fit-and-finish of it?

 

[Billb2]

Originally posted by: TrevorRC
Billb2, the advantage of 3x120mm radiators isn't increased cooling capacity, it is SILENCE. You run 3 38mm fans undervolted to 5; and get the same deltas as if you ran 2 at 7/12 [With half the noise.]

The advantage of a 3x120 rad over 1, or 2 X120 could be looked at as either less noise OR more cooling. People looking for either will use a 3 X 120.

The point I was making is that a BI Pro rad will cool better, be it 1, 2, or 3 X 120, than the corresponding BI Extreme in a low noise (ie lower CFM/lower pressure) setup.

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: Billb2
The point I was making is that a BI Pro rad will cool better, be it 1, 2, or 3 X 120, than the corresponding BI Extreme in a low noise (ie lower CFM/lower pressure) setup.

I'd be amazed if this wasn't common knowledge.

 

[TrevorRC]

2x120 rads are no where NEAR saturated in terms of cooling capacity.. peformance difference is negligible [again, look at XS.] If you want cooling that is truly a step-up from a 2x120, you're looking at Monster-Cores .... someone from Thermochill ran some tests at XS. Go look it out. Hence the use of 3x120 almost always for silence.

--Trevor

 

[HardWarrior]

I don't think that's true, Trevor. There's nothing wrong, wasteful or low performance about using a 120.3 as the monster dissipators they are. Believe me, with the same fans a 120.3 IS better than a 120.2 for sheer power.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: soloz2

Originally posted by: TrevorRC

yes, the storm is better than the TDX or apogee, but only marginally... and to many the cost simply does not outweigh the performance gain. Often the difference isn't more than a degree or two.

Heater cores are excellent! I have two TT thunderblade fans that are fairly quiet and I get great temps with my loop! granted, the BIP and black ice gt can use quieter fans, but a double heater core will also outperform just about any double rad... they just don't look near as good.

UHHHH HELLO??? Storms were optimized fpr use with the IHS OFF. And my storm rev. 2 will pwn my brothers apogee by about 3-5C (With IHS Still ON both Blocks). But the STORM is NOT A NUBIE block! IF YOUR NEW DO NOT GET IT! it requires cleaning once every 6-12 months, and draining a system for the first time is a serious nightmare.

Anyhow before i get lectured by HW to play nice and not give all newbies who post this SAME EXACT thread weekly a hard time on why they dont use SEARCH on forums, Here are some places you should check out before asking questions!

www.xtremesystems.org <---- watercooling forum theres a sticky for newbies
www.dangerden.com <---- lots of helpful tutorials + videos!

Kits you should absolutely stay away from: ThermalTake, gigabyte, companys whose name requires u to spit on your monitor when reading!

Kits which are pretty much good as good as DYO kits: Swiftech apex 220, DangerDen custom kits.

*running before HW lectures me on how i should play nice :X*

OHHHHHHH Also the swiftech 120x2 QP rad is better then the BIP. BIP = 1 pass while QP is a dual pass.

 

[HardWarrior]

:laugh: Damn! I thought since I'm an old man I'm supposed to lecture.

 

[soloz2]

Originally posted by: TrevorRC
The reason why the polarflo didn't perform as well as you'dve liked was because your pump probably has an insufficient amount of head pressure.


BTW, you might want to change your email in your sig to soloz 210 [at] gREMOVEmail.com

Spam-bots crawl the web. Not a good thing for your inbox

--Trevor

Edit: BTW Foxconn, Deltas are more important.
--T

I was getting decent temps w/ the polarflo, but I actually found a deal where I could upgrade to the maze 4 for free. but, my swiftech MCP655 has enough pressure for the polarflo tt!

Originally posted by: HardWarrior

Solo, are you currently using an Apogee? If so, how's the fit-and-finish of it?

yes, I am using the apogee. it looks ince and gives me good performance.

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/9232/img2020113du.jpg

my only complaint is that the mounting screws are a little short and it is a pain to get them to thread into the backplate. if they were 1/8" longer...

 

[HardWarrior]

Very nice, solo. You just have to love the Expert with the Swifty Delrin blocks. :thumbsup: Yeah, I got those freaky short screws too.

 

[soloz2]

Originally posted by: HardWarrior
Very nice, solo. You just have to love the Expert with the Swifty Delrin blocks. :thumbsup: Yeah, I got those freaky short screws too.

they're a pain... if I ever take the screws off and go down to the hardware store I might try to get some longer ones...