Water cooling my A64 rig

[NarcoticHobo]

Decided to go with a CM stacker, with these watercooling components

Swiftech MC6002
Swiftech MCP650
Tygon Tubing 7'
D-den micro II radiator, (will fit in the slot for second power supply on the stacker)
Also a musketeer for temp monitoring and fan control.

What do you think good choices?

 

[essasin]

Hate to tell you this but air cooling cools just as well as watercooling because of the heatsink thats already on the cpu, unless you get a DTR chip or take off the ihs. But I was watercooling before so I did it anyways. I would opt to go with a DD TDX or Rbx, or if you have the money cathar storm block. THe mcp650 is a great pump, and tygon is the best tubing. Id get a bigger rad and try to fit it somewhere, the smaller rads just does not do the job for me.

 

[iamtrout]

Go with whatever your budget tells you to do. I went with all Swiftech because they are cheaper than Danger Den.

I honestly do not know why everyone here goes with Danger Den. When comparing the RBX and TDX to the MCW6000, the MCW6000 performs better and is cheaper, and yet people still go Danger Den. PLUS the Swiftech block can be compatible with future socket sizes because the mounting system is independent of the block and can be cheaply switched out during upgrades. With Danger Den, you get a new socket type and you will need to get an entire new waterblock.

http://www.procooling.com/html/pro_testing.php

Select TDX, RBX, and MCW6000 for comparison. Lower Delta T is better. There you go. Hard, reproducable data that Swiftech is a LOT better than DD at low flow rates and still a little bit better at high flow rates.

 

[NarcoticHobo]

Originally posted by: iamtrout
Go with whatever your budget tells you to do. I went with all Swiftech because they are cheaper than Danger Den.

I honestly do not know why everyone here goes with Danger Den. When comparing the RBX and TDX to the MCW6000, the MCW6000 performs better and is cheaper, and yet people still go Danger Den. PLUS the Swiftech block can be compatible with future socket sizes because the mounting system is independent of the block and can be cheaply switched out during upgrades. With Danger Den, you get a new socket type and you will need to get an entire new waterblock.

http://www.procooling.com/html/pro_testing.php

Select TDX, RBX, and MCW6000 for comparison. Lower Delta T is better. There you go. Hard, reproducable data that Swiftech is a LOT better than DD at low flow rates and still a little bit better at high flow rates.

Sounds good, will the dual 80mm fan radiator be good enough, I figure its at least as good as a single 120mm if not better. Anyway I'll stick with the swiftech block and the 650, probably go to the flex tubing.

If, I can't get the effect I need with the on die heatsink I'll take it off and try it that way... hopefully it won't be a problem.

 

[iamtrout]

The dual 80mm will NOT be as good as a single 120mm radiator. Surface area wise, 8cm x 8cm x 2 = 128cm^2, whereas 12cm x 12cm = 144cm^2, and this isn't even getting to the volume, in which case 120mm rads are normally thicker than 80mm ones. Dual 80's definitely fit better, but if you can, do try to go with at least a 120mm rad because it'll perform better, be cheaper, and be quieter.

Taking off the IHS is risky. Those cores are rather fragile...

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: essasin
Id get a bigger rad and try to fit it somewhere, the smaller rads just does not do the job for me.

Sorry to tell you this essasin, but that's an old wives tale. The BIMII works just fine for a a CPU and vid block with overhead to spare. I've never broken 38c with a comfortable ambient and a BIMII. Not every water-cooling system has to be based on massive overkill, duct tape and case cutting.

 

[Idleuser]

I say stick with the swiftech mcw6002a since it has low pressure drop but since you're getting the mcp650 there shouldn't be any worry about that. Money wise you can't beat the swiftech, and don't even waste money buying the cathar g4 storm it's overpriced and can you justify spending 2x the amount for just 1-2°C decrease in temp?

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: Idleuser
I say stick with the swiftech mcw6002a since it has low pressure drop but since you're getting the mcp650 there shouldn't be any worry about that. Money wise you can't beat the swiftech, and don't even waste money buying the cathar g4 storm it's overpriced and can you justify spending 2x the amount for just 1-2°C decrease in temp?

I don't think I've heard one bad thing about the 6002 series blocks. I respect trouts opinion and he thinks very highly of his. And yeah, $85 USD for a block is kind of tall for so little performance gain.

G4 Storm Review at ProCooling

 

[essasin]

Originally posted by: HardWarrior

Originally posted by: essasin
Id get a bigger rad and try to fit it somewhere, the smaller rads just does not do the job for me.

Sorry to tell you this essasin, but that's an old wives tale. The BIMII works just fine for a a CPU and vid block with overhead to spare. I've never broken 38c with a comfortable ambient and a BIMII. Not every water-cooling system has to be based on massive overkill, duct tape and case cutting.

When i changed from a 80mm rad to a dual 120mm rad I noticed a 8 degree drop without touching anything else. When i ran my mobile chip at 1.9 volts the highest it ever got was 38 in the spring time when ambiet is moderate. When it was running at 1.65 volts it ran at below 30c. The only thing i changed was the rad and thats it, so i dont think its an old wives tale. But, since he prob wont be overclocking a 80mm rad will prob do.

All blocks are bascially even, but I choose the rbx because of its looks and the ability to change nozzles. To me 2-3 degree drop is that much more headroom to tinker with.

 

[iamtrout]

If he's going to be lightly overclocking and just wants a nice simple setup with a couple of 80mm radboxes and no casemodding, then I suppose 80mm rads will work. Keep in mind that I'm speaking this from NO experience with the Micro II.

HardWarrior, thanks for the support. The only two things that I don't like about the 6002 series is the color and the fact that they're completely sealed, meaning that if you make a mistake and somehow not add algaecide or anti-corrosion additives, it'll be harder to clean out. The Danger Dens are really pretty and they definitely do perform well. Alas, the upgradability of the Swiftech did it for me (too cheap to buy another block when I get something with a new socket).

As far as the price of Cathar's blocks, the last I heard (a month ago) it's damn expensive for him to make those blocks because of the labor costs. He's gotta get other people to fabricate his blocks and let's just say that those guys don't consider him top priority 🙁

 

[NarcoticHobo]

Hmmm. About overclocking that is something I would like to do. I am getting an athlon 3500+, and would like to get it stable at 2.6ghz or maybe a bit above... From what I've read this setup should be able to handle that though.

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: essasin

Originally posted by: HardWarrior

Originally posted by: essasin
Id get a bigger rad and try to fit it somewhere, the smaller rads just does not do the job for me.

Sorry to tell you this essasin, but that's an old wives tale. The BIMII works just fine for a a CPU and vid block with overhead to spare. I've never broken 38c with a comfortable ambient and a BIMII. Not every water-cooling system has to be based on massive overkill, duct tape and case cutting.

When i changed from a 80mm rad to a dual 120mm rad I noticed a 8 degree drop without touching anything else. When i ran my mobile chip at 1.9 volts the highest it ever got was 38 in the spring time when ambiet is moderate. When it was running at 1.65 volts it ran at below 30c. The only thing i changed was the rad and thats it, so i dont think its an old wives tale. But, since he prob wont be overclocking a 80mm rad will prob do.

All blocks are bascially even, but I choose the rbx because of its looks and the ability to change nozzles. To me 2-3 degree drop is that much more headroom to tinker with.

I wouldn't recommend a single 80mm rad for multiple blocks in any case. NH was speaking of a BIMII which is a dual 80mm rad. How about some numbers? Combined my CPU and GPU generate about 637,200 joules per hour, 177x60x60. The BIMII dissipates 2,384,880 joules per hour, and this doesn't factor in 4-fan configurations, the more efficient flat tube design of rads or that rad\core efficiency increases with higher Delta T's. You can reconcile the numbers for yourself. The Old Wives tale comes when people assume that the only way to run a water-cooler is with a dual 120 core. It just isn't true.

I've wanted to try different noozles with my TDX, but since the change is semi permanent I've stayed with the GP noozle. 😉

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: iamtrout
HardWarrior, thanks for the support. The only two things that I don't like about the 6002 series is the color and the fact that they're completely sealed, meaning that if you make a mistake and somehow not add algaecide or anti-corrosion additives, it'll be harder to clean out. The Danger Dens are really pretty and they definitely do perform well. Alas, the upgradability of the Swiftech did it for me (too cheap to buy another block when I get something with a new socket).

As far as the price of Cathar's blocks, the last I heard (a month ago) it's damn expensive for him to make those blocks because of the labor costs. He's gotta get other people to fabricate his blocks and let's just say that those guys don't consider him top priority 🙁

Just giving credit where it's due, trout. I'm surprised you can't open a 6002 block. A compromise by BillA towards making them easier to mass produce more easily perhaps? As far as TDX upgradability, I noticed the other day that A64, P4 and P4 LGA mounting kits are available for about $16.

That's the same feeling I get from reading reviews of Cathar's blocks. They outperform any other block, but are plagued by build quality issues. The only review I've read about the Storm was at pro-cooling and it seemed to indicate that they were much better built than the WW and Cascade blocks. The only problem is that $16 for a new mounting kit for a block that works fine looks a lot better than $85 for a brand new block, even if it's a top performer.

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: NarcoticHobo
Hmmm. About overclocking that is something I would like to do. I am getting an athlon 3500+, and would like to get it stable at 2.6ghz or maybe a bit above... From what I've read this setup should be able to handle that though.

If you're serious about overclocking and you haven't settled on a mb yet, take a look at the DFI Lanparty UT 250GB. It's s754 (the s939 variant is due out anytime now) and has a massive set of overclocking settings, great design and all Japanese capacitors.

 

[NarcoticHobo]

Originally posted by: HardWarrior

Originally posted by: NarcoticHobo
Hmmm. About overclocking that is something I would like to do. I am getting an athlon 3500+, and would like to get it stable at 2.6ghz or maybe a bit above... From what I've read this setup should be able to handle that though.

If you're serious about overclocking and you haven't settled on a mb yet, take a look at the DFL Lanparty UT 250GB. It's s754 (the s939 variant is due out anytime now) and has a massive set of overclocking settings, great design and all Japanese capacitors.

I'd just like to get to 266 FSB max, which all of the new nforce 4 boards can do. Unfortunately none of them go up to 2.9 v for memory. Is that something that can be fixed via a bios update, or will I have to wait once again on the DFI nforce 4.

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: NarcoticHobo

Originally posted by: HardWarrior

Originally posted by: NarcoticHobo
Hmmm. About overclocking that is something I would like to do. I am getting an athlon 3500+, and would like to get it stable at 2.6ghz or maybe a bit above... From what I've read this setup should be able to handle that though.

If you're serious about overclocking and you haven't settled on a mb yet, take a look at the DFL Lanparty UT 250GB. It's s754 (the s939 variant is due out anytime now) and has a massive set of overclocking settings, great design and all Japanese capacitors.

I'd just like to get to 266 FSB max, which all of the new nforce 4 boards can do. Unfortunately none of them go up to 2.9 v for memory. Is that something that can be fixed via a bios update, or will I have to wait once again on the DFI nforce 4.

We seem to be thinking about some of the same things. One of the reviews I read on the UT said that 3.1 was planned to be added with a BIOS update. I THINK the UT maxxes out at 2.9 now. I'm not sure about the NF 4 chipset.

Edit: Anand Lanparty UT review