Watch the U.S. back down to avoid war with China

[cytg111]

What would be the implications of China taking Taiwan yesterday?
Effectively solitary control over global semiconducting flow and supply?

Game Over?

 

[fskimospy]

What would be the implications of China taking Taiwan yesterday?
Effectively solitary control over global semiconducting flow and supply?

Game Over?

You expect China to conquer Taiwan while leaving its industrial capacity relatively intact?

That seems…very optimistic.

 

[uclaLabrat]

So why did the American president AND our military leadership agree with ME?

(Not you folks)

"Appeasement" and not being a dick are two different things.

Maybe he disagrees. Maybe hes even right. To your original point, only time will tell if that calculus was correct.

I generally agree with it; democrats should be seen as the most effective at foreign policy. That doesnt mean theyre complete pussies that are ineffective, it means being a hardass where necessary and not antagonistic where it doesnt.

 

[Captante]

Funny how that pesky question about the FACT that Biden and our military being completely AGAINST Pelosi's visit keeps (mostly) getting ignored just so folks can express contrary opinion.

I like Nancy Pelosi overall but I trust Biden, our diplomatic core AND (believe it or not) our military a lot more then her when it comes to dealing with China.

 

[sdifox]

So why did the American president AND our military leadership agree with ME?

(Not you folks)

"Appeasement" and not being a dick are two different things.

lol you really don't know anything do you?

Peolosi visits Taiwan. Xi gets pissed, Biden says "sorry my hands are tied, she does not report to me. Even our military says it is a bad idea."
Xi knows Biden is lying but he can't do shit about it.

 

[Captante]

lol you really don't know anything do you?

Peolosi visits Taiwan. Ci gets pissed, Biden says "sorry my hands are tied, she does not report to me. Even our military says it is a bad idea."
Xi knows Biden is lying but he can't do shit about it.

Want me to start with the insults too? It CAN be arranged.

(disagreeing with me is fine.... being a douche isn't)

 

[sdifox]

Want me to start with the insults too? It CAN be arranged.

you have been told many times how things work yet you refuse to believe it. what can I say?

 

[IronWing]

Funny how that pesky question about the FACT that Biden and our military being completely AGAINST Pelosi's visit keeps (mostly) getting ignored just so folks can express contrary opinion.

I like Nancy Pelosi overall but I trust Biden, our diplomatic core AND (believe it or not) our military a lot more then her when it comes to dealing with China.

If Biden actually opposed the trip, Pelosi would not have gone. Democrats still follow the 1 President, 1 foreign policy tradition.

 

[Captante]

If Biden actually opposed the trip, Pelosi would not have gone. Democrats still follow the 1 President, 1 foreign policy tradition.

If Biden had been willing to "show her up" then he would have done so and she would not have gone.... Nancy had her own agenda to a large degree here.

 

[rommelrommel]

Want me to start with the insults too? It CAN be arranged.

(disagreeing with me is fine.... being a douche isn't)

Your entire take requires taking everything said as the exact literal truth and for there to be no hidden meanings at all, which is what diplomacy is all about. Messages need to be sent without words all the time, this was a message.

 

[uclaLabrat]

Funny how that pesky question about the FACT that Biden and our military being completely AGAINST Pelosi's visit keeps (mostly) getting ignored just so folks can express contrary opinion.

I like Nancy Pelosi overall but I trust Biden, our diplomatic core AND (believe it or not) our military a lot more then her when it comes to dealing with China.

Maybe theyre saying that publicly so biden can disavow the trip and they can be good cop/bad cop?

Allows china to save face while sending the same message.

Look at chinas response. Theyve implemented a de facto blockade around taiwan. If we sent weapons to taiwan, this measure shows them willing to intercept/interdict such shipments. Be interesting to see what the response is.

Again, maybe youre right. Maybe biden and DOD really thinks this is an unnecessary provocation and theyre biting their tongues thinking "that crazy bitch is gonna get us killed". Who knows? Your original question was what reason would there be to even do this?

There are many which are logical and even good policy. Will it be effective? Even you have already answered that.

 

[cytg111]

You expect China to conquer Taiwan while leaving its industrial capacity relatively intact?

That seems…very optimistic.

Yes I do. Anyway.
There is similarities between this and the Europe-Russian gas story.

 

[Captante]

You expect China to conquer Taiwan while leaving its industrial capacity relatively intact?

This may be their objective but I sincerely doubt they're capable of pulling it off. They either don't attempt to invade at all or Taiwan (and by extension TSMC's fabs) gets destroyed.

you have been told many times how things work yet you refuse to believe it. what can I say?

The difference between you and I is that I'm willing to admit that I don't know what's going to happen next.

 

[rommelrommel]

We all know “one China” is a fiction designed to keep the PRC relatively placated.

What’s a bigger violation of the the “one China” policy, the visit of a domestically powerful US politician, or selling billions of dollars of weapons to part of China to defend itself from the other part?

And what part actually does the PRC get performatively mad about?

This shit is chess, it ain’t checkers.

 

[Captante]

We all know “one China” is a fiction designed to keep the PRC relatively placated.

What’s a bigger violation of the the “one China” policy, the visit of a domestically powerful US politician, or selling billions of dollars of weapons to part of China to defend itself from the other part?

And what part actually does the PRC get performatively mad about?

This shit is chess, it ain’t checkers.

Agreed.

However little more effort at "maintaining the illusion" might be nice!

 

[uclaLabrat]

This may be their objective but I sincerely doubt they're capable of pulling it off. They either don't attempt to invade at all or Taiwan (and by extension TSMC's fabs) gets destroyed.






The difference between you and I is that I'm willing to admit that I don't know what's going to happen next.

No one does.

 

[Captante]

No one does.

Also agreed. (the "admitting it" part is usually the rub!)

 

[Captante]

Showing support for Taiwan indicates to China that we will not sit idly by if they decide to attack.

You must really think the Chinese are clueless. (it does appear that way sometimes!)

The id10t's in charge of 'murica's long-term strategy have allowed us to be put in a place where mission-critical tech for our national security is almost EXCLUSIVELY made on an island that belongs to (arguably) our strongest enemy. (this IS what happened)

You think the Chinese don't know this? If TSMC alone gets taken out for ANY reason we are well and truly screwed.

But lets keep poking the monkey.

 

[Thump553]

This is all saber rattling and the Red Chinese version of Wag The Dog. Red China's economy-especially the real estate and banking sectors are collapsing and there is a tremendous amount of public unrest and demonstrations. People are stuck owing mortgages on properties never built. People also cannot withdraw money from their bank accounts or access is very limited. The leadership is coming up for election in about a month and are using this self-created crisis to rally people around the flag.

Pelosi is hardly the first US politician to visit Taiwan and she won't be the last.

Unless either side makes a horrendous blunder nothing will come out of this-again.

 

[fskimospy]

You must really think the Chinese are clueless. (it does appear that way sometimes!)

The id10t's in charge of 'murica's long-term strategy have allowed us to be put in a place where mission-critical tech for our national security is almost EXCLUSIVELY made on an island that belongs to (arguably) our strongest enemy. (this IS what happened)

As previously explained to you Taiwan does not actually belong to China and everyone knows this.

You think the Chinese don't know this? If TSMC alone gets taken out for ANY reason we are well and truly screwed.

But lets keep poking the monkey.

What is your idea that China will invade Taiwan out of a fit of pique because we were mean to them? It seems you have a very low opinion of China’s ability to think strategically.

The US is smart to invest more in domestic semiconductor production as it is a strategic vulnerability. China would be screening themselves just as hard as they would screw us by attacking Taiwan though as those facilities would almost certainly be destroyed or severely degraded and China relies on them too.

 

[Captante]

As previously explained to you Taiwan does not actually belong to China and everyone knows this.


What is your idea that China will invade Taiwan out of a fit of pique because we were mean to them? It seems you have a very low opinion of China’s ability to think strategically.

The US is smart to invest more in domestic semiconductor production as it is a strategic vulnerability. China would be screening themselves just as hard as they would screw us by attacking Taiwan though as those facilities would almost certainly be destroyed or severely degraded and China relies on them too.

I used to value your opinion but you've fixed that.... throwing in a few accurate statistics does nothing to cover up your closet-prejudice.

This is in no way related to disagreeing about China and Taiwan which as I said is fine with me.

 

[fskimospy]

I used to value your opinion but you've fixed that.... throwing in a few accurate statistics does nothing to cover up your closet-racism.

This is in no way related to disagreeing about China and Taiwan.

I’m struggling to come up with any series of events that caused you to think I care about your opinion of me.

 

[Captante]

I’m struggling to come up with any series of events that caused you to think I care about your opinion of me.

Vice-versa? (This is about as productive as Nancy in Taiwan)


EDIT: And actually that's not a "struggle" at all for me!

 

[fskimospy]

Vice-versa? (This is about as productive as Nancy in Taiwan)


EDIT: And actually that's not a "struggle" at all for me!

In case you haven’t noticed I have never commented on my views of you because I don’t really have any outside of finding this inept shit talking modestly amusing.

I would be perfectly happy if you just stuck to the topics of China or monkeypox. Somehow I doubt you will but I hope you prove me wrong.

 

[Captante]

I would be perfectly happy if you just stuck to the topics of China or monkeypox. Somehow I doubt you will but I hope you prove me wrong.

Unlike you I do judge people based on what comes out of their mouths and you have not exactly done yourself proud here.

And btw "implied" insult still counts as insulting.

Having said that several of my best friends are guys that I got in physical fights with constantly when we were younger so I won't hold a grudge.

EDIT: SERIOUSLY hypocritical the way everyone attacked @Torn Mind when he made a couple offhand racist/biased comments but other folks get a free pass.

People's "offhand" remarks tell you a lot about how they REALLY think! Keep that in mind the next time somebody "slips".... they're telling you what kind of person they actually are.