Watch the U.S. back down to avoid war with China

Lezunto

Senior member
Oct 24, 2020
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As various news outlets have reported, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is reportedly planning to visit Taiwan. I've also read pieces that claim First Lady Dr. Jill Biden also plans a visit to the island nation to symbolize America's commitment to Taiwan's freedom and democracy.

However, China is vowing "strong measures" as retaliation, according to Time Magazine.


This should be interesting ... as well as dangerous.

I am betting the Pentagon works feverishly behind the scenes to dissuade Pelosi from visiting, even though some Republicans are backing her move. Just as I do.

 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
31,564
20,231
136
As various news outlets have reported, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is reportedly planning to visit Taiwan. I've also read pieces that claim First Lady Dr. Jill Biden also plans a visit to the island nation to symbolize America's commitment to Taiwan's freedom and democracy.

However, China is vowing "strong measures" as retaliation, according to Time Magazine.


This should be interesting ... as well as dangerous.

I am betting the Pentagon works feverishly behind the scenes to dissuade Pelosi from visiting, even though some Republicans are backing her move. Just as I do.

We had a multinational infrastructure in place to help keep China financially in check. It was the TTP. Guess who dissolved it?
 

Lezunto

Senior member
Oct 24, 2020
964
858
106
Trump dissolved a lot of things including the reputation of the U.S. as a defender of freedom and an honest broker of peace.

But that has nothing to do with the thread question.
 
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m8d

Senior member
Nov 5, 2012
547
847
136
As various news outlets have reported, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is reportedly planning to visit Taiwan. I've also read pieces that claim First Lady Dr. Jill Biden also plans a visit to the island nation to symbolize America's commitment to Taiwan's freedom and democracy.

However, China is vowing "strong measures" as retaliation, according to Time Magazine.


This should be interesting ... as well as dangerous.

I am betting the Pentagon works feverishly behind the scenes to dissuade Pelosi from visiting, even though some Republicans are backing her move. Just as I do.

China's military is so shockingly corrupt
 

m8d

Senior member
Nov 5, 2012
547
847
136
As various news outlets have reported, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is reportedly planning to visit Taiwan. I've also read pieces that claim First Lady Dr. Jill Biden also plans a visit to the island nation to symbolize America's commitment to Taiwan's freedom and democracy.

However, China is vowing "strong measures" as retaliation, according to Time Magazine.


This should be interesting ... as well as dangerous.

I am betting the Pentagon works feverishly behind the scenes to dissuade Pelosi from visiting, even though some Republicans are backing her move. Just as I do.

China has bigger problems to worry about.
 

rommelrommel

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2002
3,859
2,101
146
As various news outlets have reported, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is reportedly planning to visit Taiwan. I've also read pieces that claim First Lady Dr. Jill Biden also plans a visit to the island nation to symbolize America's commitment to Taiwan's freedom and democracy.

However, China is vowing "strong measures" as retaliation, according to Time Magazine.


This should be interesting ... as well as dangerous.

I am betting the Pentagon works feverishly behind the scenes to dissuade Pelosi from visiting, even though some Republicans are backing her move. Just as I do.

That is certainly not the desire of the Pentagon. The Pentagon is hawkish on defending Taiwan.
 

eelw

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 1999
7,279
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Right, if Ukraine wasn’t happening, US would test China. Unfortunately Ukraine is the reason China is pushing this. And really bad time to escalate on another front. To avoid further inflating, well inflation, can’t be starting trade wars with China over this
 
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Denly

Golden Member
May 14, 2011
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If Taiwan takes US top figures for a visit I don't see any problem with it. In the end, Taiwan has the most to lose.
 

Pens1566

Diamond Member
Oct 11, 2005
9,227
3,649
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Eh, people are a more worried about a conflict with China than they should be. Both in the sense that it's unlikely to happen for various non-military reasons, and if it were to occur China's capabilities are overrated. Numbers aren't everything. Not saying a shooting war would be a cake walk, but there's still a big tech gap there. Taiwan might be rubble (part of the economic side that would prevent it), but we'd "win" overall.
 

Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
4,546
568
126
Eh, people are a more worried about a conflict with China than they should be. Both in the sense that it's unlikely to happen for various non-military reasons, and if it were to occur China's capabilities are overrated. Numbers aren't everything. Not saying a shooting war would be a cake walk, but there's still a big tech gap there. Taiwan might be rubble (part of the economic side that would prevent it), but we'd "win" overall.
Taiwan becoming rubble would create a massive chip shortage worldwide and the alternative would be China. Not a good situation. We need to do a better job of diversifying critical manufacturing activities away from China. With the current situation in Ukraine we should tread lightly with Taiwan right now, which I really do not like.
 

Commodus

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2004
9,037
6,488
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If we could get all of our manufacturing back home it could be a different scenario and we would be beholden to no one.
That's the dream, but it's very unlikely to happen (not any time soon, at least).

It's not the labor costs that would be the problem; it's the supply chain access and flexibility. Many of the raw materials and smaller supporting manufacturers are in places like China, and their labor pool is generally much more flexible. Need to ramp up manufacturing after a spike in demand? No problem, there will be 2,000 appropriately-skilled workers starting in two weeks. In the US, many potential workers are overqualified and/or will take months to settle in.

I can see some manufacturing coming back to the US, but it'll primarily be highly automated manufacturing that doesn't lean too heavily on Chinese materials.
 
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uclaLabrat

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2007
5,320
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Taiwan becoming rubble would create a massive chip shortage worldwide and the alternative would be China. Not a good situation. We need to do a better job of diversifying critical manufacturing activities away from China. With the current situation in Ukraine we should tread lightly with Taiwan right now, which I really do not like.
Its unbelievable to me how cavalierly our government has catered to business demands over national security needs over the last 40 years. Really, really mind boggling.
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
30,050
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Taiwan becoming rubble would create a massive chip shortage worldwide and the alternative would be China. Not a good situation. We need to do a better job of diversifying critical manufacturing activities away from China. With the current situation in Ukraine we should tread lightly with Taiwan right now, which I really do not like.
Reducing Taiwan to rubble would hurt everyone, including, and probably especially, china.

TSMC has the most advanced chip manufacturing in the world.
China has lots of semiconductor processing and assembly, and is trying to build domestic chip production (recently debuted a supercomputer using chinese-produced CPUs IIRC), but TSMC is far and away the premier chip manufacturer.
 

Pens1566

Diamond Member
Oct 11, 2005
9,227
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Reducing Taiwan to rubble would hurt everyone, including, and probably especially, china.

TSMC has the most advanced chip manufacturing in the world.
China has lots of semiconductor processing and assembly, and is trying to build domestic chip production (recently debuted a supercomputer using chinese-produced CPUs IIRC), but TSMC is far and away the premier chip manufacturer.
And there's already a huge amount of that being placed in US locations. Phoenix area is getting a GIANT TSMC facility that will be operational in ~'24.
 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
31,709
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Reducing Taiwan to rubble would hurt everyone, including, and probably especially, china.
China does not require a pain free existence.
They only need to consider if we can survive that pain.
To be the last man standing in a world of ruin... would be a victory for China.
 
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Roger Wilco

Diamond Member
Mar 20, 2017
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I do worry that China’s economy and domestic stability will continue to erode through the near future, which will ultimately make them a dangerous and belligerent dying state, similar to Russia. I get the feeling Xi would wage endless war if it helped ensure his continued reign.
 

Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
4,546
568
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Reducing Taiwan to rubble would hurt everyone, including, and probably especially, china.

TSMC has the most advanced chip manufacturing in the world.
China has lots of semiconductor processing and assembly, and is trying to build domestic chip production (recently debuted a supercomputer using chinese-produced CPUs IIRC), but TSMC is far and away the premier chip manufacturer.
I used to believe in that rational calculation until Russia invaded Ukraine.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,369
893
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Taiwan becoming rubble would create a massive chip shortage worldwide and the alternative would be China. Not a good situation. We need to do a better job of diversifying critical manufacturing activities away from China. With the current situation in Ukraine we should tread lightly with Taiwan right now, which I really do not like.
I don't recall China really having any foundries on the level of TSMC. My understanding is that the major players in the foundry space are TSMC, Samsung, GlobalFoundries, and Intel. China tends to handle logic boards (i.e. they'd put the Samsung-produced Nvidia GPU on their PCB) and other integration-related tasks.
 

Lezunto

Senior member
Oct 24, 2020
964
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The TPP is no longer in effect. So, mentioning it is meaningless. It's the same as an American exclaiming: "We treat Blacks equally. We have a Voting Rights Act." (Which has been gutted)

The U.S. and the Chinese navies have been embroiled in non-lethal battles of chicken for a few years now, according to a few book authors who focused on a future Pacific Naval War. Do you really think economic treaties scare Beijing?

They know most in the U.S. are afraid of a real Pacific war. This is why you keep harkening back to the TPP as if that defunct agreement really means something to China now.

Chinese leaders know they have planted so many spies in the U.S. that they have their pick of folks in technology, intelligence and finance who are greedy, selfish and would gladly sell out the U.S. for millions and a safe haven.
 
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IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
65,449
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The TPP is no longer in effect. So, mentioning it is meaningless. It's the same as an American exclaiming: "We treat Blacks equally. We have a Voting Rights Act." (Which has been gutted)

The U.S. and the Chinese navies have been embroiled in non-lethal battles of chicken for a few years now, according to a few book authors who focused on a future Pacific Naval War. Do you really think economic treaties scare Beijing?

They know most in the U.S. are afraid of a real Pacific war. This is why you keep harkening back to the TPP as if that defunct agreement really means something to China now.

Chinese leaders know they have planted so many spies in the U.S. that they have their pick of folks in technology, intelligence and finance who are greedy, selfish and would gladly sell out the U.S. for millions and a safe haven.
Your far-right fantasies only carry weight with your like-minded fellow fascists. Everyone else thinks you're a nut.
 

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