Watch for title changes

[Howard]

Originally posted by: SVT Cobra

Originally posted by: Geekbabe

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: Geekbabe

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: Geekbabe
1.I will not moderate a thread I'm active in

Can you guarantee that Red Dawn won't and vice versa? There is definitely a lack of impartiality there.

my husband and I often have very different POV on any given situation and both retain our own voice on the forums and in the cave,there's no collective "household" mod voting voice.

Geekbabe
Senior AnandTech Moderator

It's not that you both have the same opinion, but I've seen RD come to your defense countless times either by arguing your view or flaming the offender. As I said, one or other is an "interested party".

But groups of folks siding together to flame and bash me is ok though right?

We have the same rights in posting as regular members do,that includes the right of free association. For the record,I'm very careful around moderating issues involving people I disagree with and bring such issues up to the rest of the staff and ask them to evaluate decide such things.

GeekBabe I do not think anyone is saying it is right for you the be flamed.

Absolutely. I may not like you, Geekbabe, but I do respect the restraint that you have. However, when people band together to flame you, the moderation of such actions should be left to any mod(s) but Red Dawn (and obviously yourself). I'm fairly certain I've made clear the reasons why, but if you still think Red Dawn can do it, consider this:

- you two are married and therefore it is pretty much impossible to be completely fair about any punitive actions
- you two have already shown that you will tag-team (usually by flaming) members that offend either of you in any way

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: SVT Cobra

Originally posted by: Geekbabe

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: Geekbabe

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: Geekbabe
1.I will not moderate a thread I'm active in

Can you guarantee that Red Dawn won't and vice versa? There is definitely a lack of impartiality there.

my husband and I often have very different POV on any given situation and both retain our own voice on the forums and in the cave,there's no collective "household" mod voting voice.

Geekbabe
Senior AnandTech Moderator

It's not that you both have the same opinion, but I've seen RD come to your defense countless times either by arguing your view or flaming the offender. As I said, one or other is an "interested party".

But groups of folks siding together to flame and bash me is ok though right?

We have the same rights in posting as regular members do,that includes the right of free association. For the record,I'm very careful around moderating issues involving people I disagree with and bring such issues up to the rest of the staff and ask them to evaluate decide such things.

GeekBabe I do not think anyone is saying it is right for you the be flamed.

Absolutely. I may not like you, Geekbabe, but I do respect the restraint that you have. However, when people band together to flame you, the moderation of such actions should be left to any mod(s) but Red Dawn (and obviously yourself). I'm fairly certain I've made clear the reasons why, but if you still think Red Dawn can do it, consider this:

- you two are married and therefore it is pretty much impossible to be completely fair about any punitive actions
- you two have already shown that you will tag-team (usually by flaming) members that offend either of you in any way

Right Howie and as long as we don't Moderate in the thread everything is peachy.

 

[SVT Cobra]

Originally posted by: Geekbabe

Originally posted by: SVT Cobra

Originally posted by: Geekbabe

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: Geekbabe

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: Geekbabe
1.I will not moderate a thread I'm active in

Can you guarantee that Red Dawn won't and vice versa? There is definitely a lack of impartiality there.

my husband and I often have very different POV on any given situation and both retain our own voice on the forums and in the cave,there's no collective "household" mod voting voice.

Geekbabe
Senior AnandTech Moderator

It's not that you both have the same opinion, but I've seen RD come to your defense countless times either by arguing your view or flaming the offender. As I said, one or other is an "interested party".

But groups of folks siding together to flame and bash me is ok though right?

We have the same rights in posting as regular members do,that includes the right of free association. For the record,I'm very careful around moderating issues involving people I disagree with and bring such issues up to the rest of the staff and ask them to evaluate decide such things.

GeekBabe I do not think anyone is saying it is right for you the be flamed.

What Howard is saying is that it's not ok for my husband to take my side in any discussion,I'm pointing out to him that he has no problem with groups of folks siding up against me in discussions.

People have some really misguided ideas as to what the moderator role here involves.

Per Derek.. we are here to enforce the guidelined rules as outlined by AnandTech HQ, we are not here to serve as role models,we are not put here to serve as examples to the rest of the membership. As long as neither my husband or I moderate a thread we're involved in we enjoy the same rights to post as the rest of the membership.

Not to go off topic here, but that really does not make sense. But members, especially new members are going to emulate the moderators/elites.

 

[montypythizzle]

I think this thread should go on forever.

 

[markgm]

Originally posted by: Geekbabe

Originally posted by: SVT Cobra

Originally posted by: Geekbabe

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: Geekbabe

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: Geekbabe
1.I will not moderate a thread I'm active in

Can you guarantee that Red Dawn won't and vice versa? There is definitely a lack of impartiality there.

my husband and I often have very different POV on any given situation and both retain our own voice on the forums and in the cave,there's no collective "household" mod voting voice.

Geekbabe
Senior AnandTech Moderator

It's not that you both have the same opinion, but I've seen RD come to your defense countless times either by arguing your view or flaming the offender. As I said, one or other is an "interested party".

But groups of folks siding together to flame and bash me is ok though right?

We have the same rights in posting as regular members do,that includes the right of free association. For the record,I'm very careful around moderating issues involving people I disagree with and bring such issues up to the rest of the staff and ask them to evaluate decide such things.

GeekBabe I do not think anyone is saying it is right for you the be flamed.

What Howard is saying is that it's not ok for my husband to take my side in any discussion,I'm pointing out to him that he has no problem with groups of folks siding up against me in discussions.

People have some really misguided ideas as to what the moderator role here involves.

Per Derek.. we are here to enforce the guidelined rules as outlined by AnandTech HQ, we are not here to serve as role models,we are not put here to serve as examples to the rest of the membership. As long as neither my husband or I moderate a thread we're involved in we enjoy the same rights to post as the rest of the membership.

I thought Howard was saying the exact opposite. From the first thread in this nested mess he is asking that a married couple wouldn't moderate in each other's threads. If you can't moderate in your own thread, I don't find that request unreasonable. I keep seeing "don't moderate your own threads" as being interpreted as "don't say anything that anyone could ever find offensive" and I don't think anyone is saying that. From my days of being a moderator and as a chief justice of a judicial board, I never played a role in cases where my judgement would appear to have a conflict of interest.

Per someone, Elite members are supposed to serve as role models, even if moderators are not. Though since all moderators are elite, I would think the plane takes off!

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: markgm

Per someone, Elite members are supposed to serve as role models, even if moderators are not. Though since all moderators are elite, I would think the plane takes off!

I'm not an Elite Member and many of the other Senior Mods are not Elite Members either.

 

[markgm]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: markgm

Per someone, Elite members are supposed to serve as role models, even if moderators are not. Though since all moderators are elite, I would think the plane takes off!

I'm not an Elite Member and many of the other Senior Mods are not Elite Members either.

Were these people Elite Members a week ago? I don't know if you're just playing with semantics because the redundant titles were removed, but I remember seeing you and GeekBabe (who I bring up because her post says she does not have to be a role model) both as being Elite Members.

 

[Geekbabe]

Originally posted by: markgm

I thought Howard was saying the exact opposite. From the first thread in this nested mess he is asking that a married couple wouldn't moderate in each other's threads. If you can't moderate in your own thread, I don't find that request unreasonable. I keep seeing "don't moderate your own threads" as being interpreted as "don't say anything that anyone could ever find offensive" and I don't think anyone is saying that. From my days of being a moderator and as a chief justice of a judicial board, I never played a role in cases where my judgement would appear to have a conflict of interest.

Per someone, Elite members are supposed to serve as role models, even if moderators are not. Though since all moderators are elite, I would think the plane takes off![/quote]

You don't want "role models"what you want is me held held firmly in check,with people being allowed to say/do almost any thing to humilate me while I'm expected to sit there,smile and take it, so let's drop the role model crap and tell some truth here.


If we must serve as "role models"what I'll model is the ability to speak plainly and honestly,to uphold the guidelines here in a fair way but to not take any crap that I don't deserve.

 

[Analog]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: markgm

Per someone, Elite members are supposed to serve as role models, even if moderators are not. Though since all moderators are elite, I would think the plane takes off!

I'm not an Elite Member and many of the other Senior Mods are not Elite Members either.

But you were an elite in the not too distant relativistic past...

 

[dennilfloss]

I have no problem with a moderator moderating a thread in which his/her significant other is attacked or even with a mod upholding the regulations in a thread that's he/she's participating in. If the guidelines for posting behaviour are transgressed, then any mod present should act and enforce them. Would someone prevent a police officer from arresting someone attacking/robbing him/her or a spouse? As long as the mods themselves are subject to the posting behaviour guidelines and their enforcement like everyone else, with no special treatment, then there is no conflict of interest.

 

[Greenman]

Originally posted by: SVT Cobra

Originally posted by: Geekbabe

Originally posted by: SVT Cobra

Originally posted by: Geekbabe

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: Geekbabe

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: Geekbabe
1.I will not moderate a thread I'm active in

Can you guarantee that Red Dawn won't and vice versa? There is definitely a lack of impartiality there.

my husband and I often have very different POV on any given situation and both retain our own voice on the forums and in the cave,there's no collective "household" mod voting voice.

Geekbabe
Senior AnandTech Moderator

It's not that you both have the same opinion, but I've seen RD come to your defense countless times either by arguing your view or flaming the offender. As I said, one or other is an "interested party".

But groups of folks siding together to flame and bash me is ok though right?

We have the same rights in posting as regular members do,that includes the right of free association. For the record,I'm very careful around moderating issues involving people I disagree with and bring such issues up to the rest of the staff and ask them to evaluate decide such things.

GeekBabe I do not think anyone is saying it is right for you the be flamed.

What Howard is saying is that it's not ok for my husband to take my side in any discussion,I'm pointing out to him that he has no problem with groups of folks siding up against me in discussions.

People have some really misguided ideas as to what the moderator role here involves.

Per Derek.. we are here to enforce the guidelined rules as outlined by AnandTech HQ, we are not here to serve as role models,we are not put here to serve as examples to the rest of the membership. As long as neither my husband or I moderate a thread we're involved in we enjoy the same rights to post as the rest of the membership.

Not to go off topic here, but that really does not make sense. But members, especially new members are going to emulate the moderators/elites.

Um, no. This isn't the sixth grade, most people here aren't looking for roll models. I came here looking for information, and stayed because I like OT. I don't care who is elite or who is a mod, and I don't care if someone has been here since day one, you're all equal. It takes a hell of a lot more than a title to impress me.

 

[dennilfloss]

Originally posted by: Greenman
It takes a hell of a lot more than a title to impress me.

Do I hear the sound of multiple zippers going down?:laugh:

 

[So]

Originally posted by: Geekbabe

Originally posted by: markgm

I thought Howard was saying the exact opposite. From the first thread in this nested mess he is asking that a married couple wouldn't moderate in each other's threads. If you can't moderate in your own thread, I don't find that request unreasonable. I keep seeing "don't moderate your own threads" as being interpreted as "don't say anything that anyone could ever find offensive" and I don't think anyone is saying that. From my days of being a moderator and as a chief justice of a judicial board, I never played a role in cases where my judgement would appear to have a conflict of interest.

Per someone, Elite members are supposed to serve as role models, even if moderators are not. Though since all moderators are elite, I would think the plane takes off!

You don't want "role models"what you want is me held held firmly in check,with people being allowed to say/do almost any thing to humilate me while I'm expected to sit there,smile and take it, so let's drop the role model crap and tell some truth here.


If we must serve as "role models"what I'll model is the ability to speak plainly and honestly,to uphold the guidelines here in a fair way but to not take any crap that I don't deserve.

[/quote]

Shouldn't it be assumed that anyone qualified to be a moderator should -- at least generally -- meet the standard of a "role model"? I mean, I would hope that all moderators surpass the community standard in terms of reasonable behavior and ability to reflect on their own behavior. Sure, everyone is human, and it's expected that even moderators will suffer the occasional lapse.

A role model is not someone who is perfect -- it is someone who is willing to strive for perfection.

 

[kalster]

has a mod posting as a user ever been banned/given vacation

 

[dennilfloss]

I was banned.

 

[Ulfwald]

Originally posted by: kalster
has a mod posting as a user ever been banned/given vacation

Talk to Dennilfloss

And I am going to put an end to this Red Dawn/GeekBabe issue now. Anyone who attacks them without provocation will be subject to immediate banning. Do not pass go, do not collect $200.00. This way you folks can blame me and not start yelling about favoritism or nepotism. Now that being said, I do not expect Red or GeekBabe to sit back and just take it either. My wife is a member here as well, and anyone who attacks her will face me as a member, not as a mod. I will simply ask some other senior mod to evaluate the situation and give me their opinion and defer to their judgment, and that is the way it should be.

Now anyone who does not understand this, please PM me and I will "splain it to you.

 

[BornStar]

Originally posted by: Geekbabe
What Howard is saying is that it's not ok for my husband to take my side in any discussion,I'm pointing out to him that he has no problem with groups of folks siding up against me in discussions.

People have some really misguided ideas as to what the moderator role here involves.

Per Derek.. we are here to enforce the guidelined rules as outlined by AnandTech HQ, we are not here to serve as role models,we are not put here to serve as examples to the rest of the membership. As long as neither my husband or I moderate a thread we're involved in we enjoy the same rights to post as the rest of the membership.

I agree with what some people are getting at regarding this but I'm not sure you're completely understanding what they're saying (or maybe I'm not, who knows). Let me preface this by saying that I do think that you get picked on more than your fair share and I don't think that's right but I also don't think that matters in what's being discussed. In my mind, for moderation matters, you and Red should be treated as the same person. If someone's picking on Red then I would expect someone other than you to come in and save the day if necessary and, conversely, if you were being picked on, I would expect someone other than Red to come in and save the day. I personally think that if someone needs to be moderated but you don't feel comfortable doing it then Red shouldn't either.

I'm not saying that we should be limiting either of your moderating powers, I'm just saying that if one of you is posting in a topic, the other person should be considered automatically "in" the topic whether they're posting anything or not.

I'm trying to choose my words as carefully as possible as there are certain people on the forum that I try not to piss off and you and Red are definitely in that group. If there's any confusion about what I'm trying to say, please let me know.

 

[moshquerade]

nm

 

[SVT Cobra]

It seems that all that either side has done is bring up the past.

Well guess what, this new moderating system will prevent what people have been whining about from happening. And, if it does it will make it easier to deal with because you will know who was behind the moderating action.

So what point is there in continuing this other than to argue and try to force apologies out of the other and have them admit they are wrong. That's not going to happen.

 

[Ulfwald]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Ulfwald

Originally posted by: kalster
has a mod posting as a user ever been banned/given vacation

Talk to Dennilfloss

And I am going to put an end to this Red Dawn/GeekBabe issue now. Anyone who attacks them without provocation will be subject to immediate banning. Do not pass go, do not collect $200.00. This way you folks can blame me and not start yelling about favoritism or nepotism. Now that being said, I do not expect Red or GeekBabe to sit back and just take it either. My wife is a member here as well, and anyone who attacks her will face me as a member, not as a mod. I will simply ask some other senior mod to evaluate the situation and give me their opinion and defer to their judgment, and that is the way it should be.

Now anyone who does not understand this, please PM me and I will "splain it to you.

Does that work both ways? If they attack a member without provocation what happens to them? This is exactly what happened to me earlier in this thread, and numerous times prior as I have tried to steer clear of them or any threads they make or participate in because I know they both have teamed up against me.

And they have never "sat back and just taken it." I don't know where that is coming from. Anyone who has posted here for awhile knows they dish it out and they give it back all the time.

Moving forward, I am sure if you feel like they are attacking a member without provocation, then you should be able to bring it to the attention of another senior mod and it will be handled. But just for the record, most of what I have seen Red and GB do is in response to very immature members baiting them, attacking them, etc...

 

[Ulfwald]

Originally posted by: SVT Cobra
It seems that all that either side has done is bring up the past.

Well guess what, this new moderating system will prevent what people have been whining about from happening. And, if it does it will make it easier to deal with because you will know who was behind the moderating action.

So what point is there in continuing this other than to argue and try to force apologies out of the other and have them admit they are wrong. That's not going to happen.

In moving forward, sometimes the past has to be dealt with, however unpleasant. But it does seem the same ones are whining about the past. I am trying to intervene and get past this.

Those who refuse to let the past go and accept the new ways will never grow and mature.

SVT Cobra, you seem to have a pretty level head on your shoulders, and I do appreciate the support and understanding you have put forth here.

 

[Turin39789]

I don't have a beef with anyone Ulfwald, but can you go ahead and ban anyone, regular or moderator who attacks me too?





Also I'd like a pony.

 

[moshquerade]

nm

 

[So]

Originally posted by: Ulfwald

Originally posted by: SVT Cobra
It seems that all that either side has done is bring up the past.

Well guess what, this new moderating system will prevent what people have been whining about from happening. And, if it does it will make it easier to deal with because you will know who was behind the moderating action.

So what point is there in continuing this other than to argue and try to force apologies out of the other and have them admit they are wrong. That's not going to happen.

In moving forward, sometimes the past has to be dealt with, however unpleasant. But it does seem the same ones are whining about the past. I am trying to intervene and get past this.

Those who refuse to let the past go and accept the new ways will never grow and mature.

SVT Cobra, you seem to have a pretty level head on your shoulders, and I do appreciate the support and understanding you have put forth here.

I think the point is, there are many on this forum that have been dissatisfied with the way things were done in the past, but realistically, this is a compromise -- and a more than fair one. The moderators are asking for us to overlook past issues in return for a better future (for everyone). The fact is, many of those who are irrationally angry will not even bother reading this thread, and there will necessarily be some ongoing animosity from those people, but we need to stop past transgressions, large or small, from stopping changes for the better.

Hopefully, in time, those mods who are still incognito will feel more comfortable, and join AT's first real change of culture from the top down.

 

[Ulfwald]

Originally posted by: Turin39789
I don't have a beef with anyone Ulfwald, but can you go ahead and ban anyone, regular or moderator who attacks me too?





Also I'd like a pony.

Personal attacks are one way to get banned real quick in my book. As well as jokes about violence towards women and children. I have NO tolerance for that.

Moshquerade,

All I have to say is stay away from them. And now stay away from me. I have seen results of your postings, and I am trying to stay civil towards you. Those comments you post may not be the nicest, but neither are they "attacking" you. They are a person's opinion of your posting style, which I tend to agree with. They are not an attack, but they are bluntly honest.