Wasn't the US supposed to stimulate its way out of this via a HUGE green energy program?

[StageLeft]

As recently as just before the presidential elections I could have sworn Obama was going to blow TONS of freaking money on like 2M green energy jobs, and now I think it's a few windmills in the current package. Am I missing anything?

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Am I missing anything?

Nope.[imagine appropriate body language] The situation on the ground has changed.

 

[Andrew1990]

Come on its Obama, He is still campaigning....

Change you can believe in!

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
As recently as just before the presidential elections I could have sworn Obama was going to blow TONS of freaking money on like 2M green energy jobs, and now I think it's a few windmills in the current package. Am I missing anything?

The funding for that has been cut in half so repubs could negotiate more tax cuts for those who dont need them.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
As recently as just before the presidential elections I could have sworn Obama was going to blow TONS of freaking money on like 2M green energy jobs, and now I think it's a few windmills in the current package. Am I missing anything?

How is overpaying for electricity going to stimulate anything during a downturn?

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: Skoorb
As recently as just before the presidential elections I could have sworn Obama was going to blow TONS of freaking money on like 2M green energy jobs, and now I think it's a few windmills in the current package. Am I missing anything?

The funding for that has been cut in half so repubs could negotiate more tax cuts for those who dont need them.

Tax cuts for jobless people!!! Tax cuts for companies not making a profit!!!

STIMULUS YOU CAN BELIEVE IN.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: Skoorb
As recently as just before the presidential elections I could have sworn Obama was going to blow TONS of freaking money on like 2M green energy jobs, and now I think it's a few windmills in the current package. Am I missing anything?

The funding for that has been cut in half so repubs could negotiate more tax cuts for those who dont need them.

Tax cuts for jobless people!!! Tax cuts for companies not making a profit!!!

STIMULUS YOU CAN BELIEVE IN.

Actually on toe proposals submitted by republicans was to divide the stimulus package by the number of household and write everyone a check. It was voted down.

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Skoorb
As recently as just before the presidential elections I could have sworn Obama was going to blow TONS of freaking money on like 2M green energy jobs, and now I think it's a few windmills in the current package. Am I missing anything?

How is overpaying for electricity going to stimulate anything during a downturn?

When you create a product from a raw material, it stimulates the economy. It doesn't matter if the product is needed or not, just that there is a demand for it, albeit, in this case, an artificially created demand. Ponzi schemes work quite well, up to the point of total market saturation. The trick is to have a new one in place to take off before saturation occurs.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Skoorb
As recently as just before the presidential elections I could have sworn Obama was going to blow TONS of freaking money on like 2M green energy jobs, and now I think it's a few windmills in the current package. Am I missing anything?

How is overpaying for electricity going to stimulate anything during a downturn?

When you create a product from a raw material, it stimulates the economy. It doesn't matter if the product is needed or not, just that there is a demand for it, albeit, in this case, an artificially created demand. Ponzi schemes work quite well, up to the point of total market saturation. The trick is to have a new one in place to take off before saturation occurs.

My point it is not effective stimulus if it leaves us paying more a common resource after it is completed. I understand the construction will create jobs, but it will be more expensive for us long term.

It would create a lot of jobs to create nuke plants with that stimulus.

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Skoorb
As recently as just before the presidential elections I could have sworn Obama was going to blow TONS of freaking money on like 2M green energy jobs, and now I think it's a few windmills in the current package. Am I missing anything?

How is overpaying for electricity going to stimulate anything during a downturn?

When you create a product from a raw material, it stimulates the economy. It doesn't matter if the product is needed or not, just that there is a demand for it, albeit, in this case, an artificially created demand. Ponzi schemes work quite well, up to the point of total market saturation. The trick is to have a new one in place to take off before saturation occurs.

My point it is not effective stimulus if it leaves us paying more a common resource after it is completed. I understand the construction will create jobs, but it will be more expensive for us long term.

It would create a lot of jobs to create nuke plants with that stimulus.

Just the permitting process for nuke plants can take decades. You have to think short term if you are going to do this with debt.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Skoorb
As recently as just before the presidential elections I could have sworn Obama was going to blow TONS of freaking money on like 2M green energy jobs, and now I think it's a few windmills in the current package. Am I missing anything?

How is overpaying for electricity going to stimulate anything during a downturn?

When you create a product from a raw material, it stimulates the economy. It doesn't matter if the product is needed or not, just that there is a demand for it, albeit, in this case, an artificially created demand. Ponzi schemes work quite well, up to the point of total market saturation. The trick is to have a new one in place to take off before saturation occurs.

My point it is not effective stimulus if it leaves us paying more a common resource after it is completed. I understand the construction will create jobs, but it will be more expensive for us long term.

It would create a lot of jobs to create nuke plants with that stimulus.

Just the permitting process for nuke plants can take decades. You have to think short term if you are going to do this with debt.

You are right about short term, but lets be honest, putting up wind turbines is not exactly quick either.

 

[soccerballtux]

Because green like solar and wind is stupid.

 

[Jiggz]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
As recently as just before the presidential elections I could have sworn Obama was going to blow TONS of freaking money on like 2M green energy jobs, and now I think it's a few windmills in the current package. Am I missing anything?

You're obviously one of those who believe in the CHANGE WE CAN ALL BELIEVE IN! Welcome to the shrine of "nativity", err. . . I mean "Naive-tivity!"

 

[Thump553]

There is a lot of green energy components in the stimulus bill. A tax credit was cut out in the Senate negotiations, but industry experts were doubtful of the value of it anyway, and in any event it was replaced by a more effective incentive-allowing the utilities credits towards past tax bills if I remember correctly.

It hasn't gotten much publicity because the GOP hasn't labeled it as pork.

 

[sandorski]

Hmm, Washington going on Holiday for the next 4 years?

 

[Andrew1990]

Originally posted by: sandorski
Hmm, Washington going on Holiday for the next 4 years?

That is what I call change!

Maybe that is what we need? 4 years of a vacation with the current LAME president, and then hopefully in the next election we will get a president who LEADs.

We can only HOPE.

 

[JSt0rm]

Originally posted by: her209
Tax cuts for jobless people!!! Tax cuts for companies not making a profit!!!

STIMULUS YOU CAN BELIEVE IN.

Yeah no shit. nobody is making money right now lol. Who the fuck is paying taxes on loses? It's gettin weird out there fellas.

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Skoorb
As recently as just before the presidential elections I could have sworn Obama was going to blow TONS of freaking money on like 2M green energy jobs, and now I think it's a few windmills in the current package. Am I missing anything?

How is overpaying for electricity going to stimulate anything during a downturn?

When you create a product from a raw material, it stimulates the economy. It doesn't matter if the product is needed or not, just that there is a demand for it, albeit, in this case, an artificially created demand. Ponzi schemes work quite well, up to the point of total market saturation. The trick is to have a new one in place to take off before saturation occurs.

My point it is not effective stimulus if it leaves us paying more a common resource after it is completed. I understand the construction will create jobs, but it will be more expensive for us long term.

It would create a lot of jobs to create nuke plants with that stimulus.

FYI, solar power in the southwestern states meets the costs of nuclear power after 15 years. The panels last 30 years. If we create infrastructure and streamline production processes, we can push the time scale down to 10 years. In other words, this will create jobs and make our country more efficient (electricity costs will go down, not up)

Solar Concentrators (Troughs), on the other hand, are cheap and meet nuclear power costs after only 10 years. Creates jobs all the way down the chain and reduces power costs.

It's time to end the myth that solar power is expensive. It's only expensive if you're only using the panels in the short-term. Remember, the "fuel" is free, so all you really have is an initial investment. The longer you keep the panels, the higher your return. Most studies project over a 10 year lifetime, which is unfair since most power plants operate for much longer than that and solar cells/concentrators have a lifetime much longer than that.

Edit: Obviously this isn't a solution for states that lack a desert. For states like AZ, NV, NM, etc. solar power is not only viable, but it's actually the best option. The land you'd put panels on is worthless, you just need to have the capital to actually buy and install something and then lay a HVDC line to the nearest city. If you live on the east coast obviously this isn't for you.

 

[Xellos2099]

Have you forget that you still have to pay for the maintiance of the solar panel, right? Also, another people tend to forget is that sun is not up 24/7.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Xellos2099
Have you forget that you still have to pay for the maintiance of the solar panel, right? Also, another people tend to forget is that sun is not up 24/7.

WTF! This is news to me!

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Eeezee

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Skoorb
As recently as just before the presidential elections I could have sworn Obama was going to blow TONS of freaking money on like 2M green energy jobs, and now I think it's a few windmills in the current package. Am I missing anything?

How is overpaying for electricity going to stimulate anything during a downturn?

When you create a product from a raw material, it stimulates the economy. It doesn't matter if the product is needed or not, just that there is a demand for it, albeit, in this case, an artificially created demand. Ponzi schemes work quite well, up to the point of total market saturation. The trick is to have a new one in place to take off before saturation occurs.

My point it is not effective stimulus if it leaves us paying more a common resource after it is completed. I understand the construction will create jobs, but it will be more expensive for us long term.

It would create a lot of jobs to create nuke plants with that stimulus.

FYI, solar power in the southwestern states meets the costs of nuclear power after 15 years. The panels last 30 years. If we create infrastructure and streamline production processes, we can push the time scale down to 10 years. In other words, this will create jobs and make our country more efficient (electricity costs will go down, not up)

Solar Concentrators (Troughs), on the other hand, are cheap and meet nuclear power costs after only 10 years. Creates jobs all the way down the chain and reduces power costs.

It's time to end the myth that solar power is expensive. It's only expensive if you're only using the panels in the short-term. Remember, the "fuel" is free, so all you really have is an initial investment. The longer you keep the panels, the higher your return. Most studies project over a 10 year lifetime, which is unfair since most power plants operate for much longer than that and solar cells/concentrators have a lifetime much longer than that.

Edit: Obviously this isn't a solution for states that lack a desert. For states like AZ, NV, NM, etc. solar power is not only viable, but it's actually the best option. The land you'd put panels on is worthless, you just need to have the capital to actually buy and install something and then lay a HVDC line to the nearest city. If you live on the east coast obviously this isn't for you.

solar costs 30-40 cents a KWhour. It is not where neat cost competitive at this point.

I think in 10-20 years solar will cost competitive and rooftop solar will become common, but for now it is largely a very expensive way o create electricity.

 

[Fear No Evil]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: Xellos2099
Have you forget that you still have to pay for the maintiance of the solar panel, right? Also, another people tend to forget is that sun is not up 24/7.

WTF! This is news to me!

The Messiah can change that.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
As recently as just before the presidential elections I could have sworn Obama was going to blow TONS of freaking money on like 2M green energy jobs, and now I think it's a few windmills in the current package. Am I missing anything?

Analytical reasoning and comprehension of energy issues?

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: Xellos2099
Have you forget that you still have to pay for the maintiance of the solar panel, right? Also, another people tend to forget is that sun is not up 24/7.

WTF! This is news to me!

I would guess the whole concept of power plant load and demand-side management, and grid utilization and expansion escapes both of you.

Peak electrical loads generally roll across the country and occur twice daily - 7AM (when people wake up) and 6PM (when people get home from work). The USA is essentially split in two - with eastern and western grids which are not interconnected.

In 2007, for the first time, renewable energy sources, other than conventional hydroelectric capacity, accounted for the largest portion of capacity additions.

Surprisingly, strategies first identified in the 1970's, including demand-side management for actual peak load reductions and improved 'energy efficiencies' are returning. Imagine that. Actual solutions to problems instead of partisan rhetoric and trolling.

Summary of Funding:

$2 billion for renewable-energy research ($400 million for global-warming research)
$2 billion for a ?clean coal? power plant in Illinois
$6.2 billion for the Weatherization Assistance Program
$3.5 billion for energy-efficiency and conservation block grants
$3.4 billion for the State Energy Programs
$200 million for state and local electric-transport projects
$300 million for energy-efficient-appliance rebate programs
$400 million for hybrid cars for state and local governments
$1 billion for the manufacturing of advanced batteries
$1.5 billion for green-technology loan guarantees
$8 billion for innovative-technology loan-guarantee program
$2.4 billion for carbon-capture demonstration projects
$4.5 billion for electricity grid


I don't have a problem with intelligently discussing our energy future - too bad that's not the case with the trolls at ATP&N.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo

Originally posted by: Skoorb
As recently as just before the presidential elections I could have sworn Obama was going to blow TONS of freaking money on like 2M green energy jobs, and now I think it's a few windmills in the current package. Am I missing anything?

Analytical reasoning and comprehension of energy issues?

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: Xellos2099
Have you forget that you still have to pay for the maintiance of the solar panel, right? Also, another people tend to forget is that sun is not up 24/7.

WTF! This is news to me!

I would guess the whole concept of power plant load and demand-side management, and grid utilization and expansion escapes both of you.

Peak electrical loads generally roll across the country and occur twice daily - 7AM (when people wake up) and 6PM (when people get home from work). The USA is essentially split in two - with eastern and western grids which are not interconnected.

In 2007, for the first time, renewable energy sources, other than conventional hydroelectric capacity, accounted for the largest portion of capacity additions.

Surprisingly, strategies first identified in the 1970's, including demand-side management for actual peak load reductions and improved 'energy efficiencies' are returning. Imagine that. Actual solutions to problems instead of partisan rhetoric and trolling.

Summary of Funding:

$2 billion for renewable-energy research ($400 million for global-warming research)
$2 billion for a ?clean coal? power plant in Illinois
$6.2 billion for the Weatherization Assistance Program
$3.5 billion for energy-efficiency and conservation block grants
$3.4 billion for the State Energy Programs
$200 million for state and local electric-transport projects
$300 million for energy-efficient-appliance rebate programs
$400 million for hybrid cars for state and local governments
$1 billion for the manufacturing of advanced batteries
$1.5 billion for green-technology loan guarantees
$8 billion for innovative-technology loan-guarantee program
$2.4 billion for carbon-capture demonstration projects
$4.5 billion for electricity grid


I don't have a problem with intelligently discussing our energy future - too bad that's not the case with the trolls at ATP&N.

LOL who shat in your cornflakes today? Come back when you're going to be a good boy and play nice with others.

Thanks for arguing my point with data that actually supports it, BTW. Your list comes out to around $35B, or less than 1/20th of the stimulus package. Aren't numbers fun?

 

[retrospooty]

Its funny how you die hard reps handle things. You sarcastically prop Obama up calling him messiah and make it like he claims he can solve all of the worlds problems with ease... then When he haasnt solved 8 years of broken policy in his first 20 days in office, you attack him for not performing miracles.

Its easy to destroy, and difficult to build. Bush destroyed us for 8 years, don't expect anyone, not even "the messiah" to fix it inside of one month. It will take years to recover from 8 years of Bush and rep. controlled congress.