Wasn't the Bailout About Providing Liquidity?

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brandonbull

Diamond Member
May 3, 2005
6,363
1,222
126
Originally posted by: chess9
Btw, I'm a liberal Democrat, but I've yet to find one argument for this bailout bill that was compelling. If any of you have THE STRONG ARGUMENT for this bailout bill, I'd love to hear it. So far, all I've heard are platitudes and lies, and now we see the bankers are doing what's best for their institutions and not the immediate needs of our economy. I find myself in the odd position of agreeing with the whacked out right wingers who opposed the bailout. Someone, please, bring me back to political orthodoxy on this issue. ;)

-Robert

A significant number of businesses and households tend to run on paycheck to paycheck.

Paychecks stop due to limited credit. No paychecks = BAD.

Too many play Wall St's gambling/ponzy scheme in hopes of a fast buck. People didn't look around for the sucker before placing their bets.
 

chess9

Elite member
Apr 15, 2000
7,748
0
0
Originally posted by: brandonbull
Originally posted by: chess9
Btw, I'm a liberal Democrat, but I've yet to find one argument for this bailout bill that was compelling. If any of you have THE STRONG ARGUMENT for this bailout bill, I'd love to hear it. So far, all I've heard are platitudes and lies, and now we see the bankers are doing what's best for their institutions and not the immediate needs of our economy. I find myself in the odd position of agreeing with the whacked out right wingers who opposed the bailout. Someone, please, bring me back to political orthodoxy on this issue. ;)

-Robert

A significant number of businesses and households tend to run on paycheck to paycheck.

Paychecks stop due to limited credit. No paychecks = BAD

But but but, the unemployment numbers are:http://www.amconmag.com/article/2008/nov/03/00020/

"Since a recent high in December
2006, the employment-population ratio has declined by 1.4 percentage
points. (See table A-1.)

The number of persons who worked part time for economic reasons
rose by 337,000 to 6.1 million in September, an increase of 1.6 mil-
lion over the past 12 months. This category includes persons who
would like to work full time but were working part time because their
hours had been cut back or because they were unable to find full-time
jobs. "


Do you think this stimulus package is going to save a lot of jobs? More jobs than would have been created with an infrastructure stimulus package (new roads and bridges, for instance)?

I hope you are right. Right now, I'd guess unemployment is rising, particularly since the housing market is near comatose. We'll see with next month's numbers for this month.

-Robert
 

brandonbull

Diamond Member
May 3, 2005
6,363
1,222
126
Originally posted by: chess9
Originally posted by: brandonbull
Originally posted by: chess9
Btw, I'm a liberal Democrat, but I've yet to find one argument for this bailout bill that was compelling. If any of you have THE STRONG ARGUMENT for this bailout bill, I'd love to hear it. So far, all I've heard are platitudes and lies, and now we see the bankers are doing what's best for their institutions and not the immediate needs of our economy. I find myself in the odd position of agreeing with the whacked out right wingers who opposed the bailout. Someone, please, bring me back to political orthodoxy on this issue. ;)

-Robert

A significant number of businesses and households tend to run on paycheck to paycheck.

Paychecks stop due to limited credit. No paychecks = BAD

But but but, the unemployment numbers are:http://www.amconmag.com/article/2008/nov/03/00020/

"Since a recent high in December
2006, the employment-population ratio has declined by 1.4 percentage
points. (See table A-1.)

The number of persons who worked part time for economic reasons
rose by 337,000 to 6.1 million in September, an increase of 1.6 mil-
lion over the past 12 months. This category includes persons who
would like to work full time but were working part time because their
hours had been cut back or because they were unable to find full-time
jobs. "


Do you think this stimulus package is going to save a lot of jobs? More jobs than would have been created with an infrastructure stimulus package (new roads and bridges, for instance)?

I hope you are right. Right now, I'd guess unemployment is rising, particularly since the housing market is near comatose. We'll see with next month's numbers for this month.

-Robert

I didn't like the idea of the bailout but like I said before about those Wall St guys being a step ahead. Does anyone really think they had zero idea of the ends would be to their means of them becoming ungodly wealthy?

Everyone would suffer if we try to just "let 'em fail". I wish they were a few responsible for this mess because I would love to punch them in the face. If people really think the shit is going to hit the fan, they will start putting death grips on what money is left.

In a perfect world, we would try to divert resources that would help the most people. Since a select few tend to control most of the money, they get to say what is the best use of the money. As long as most people have a cell phone, tv, house, car, and fast food, we are good with whatever goes on in DC.

I was under the impression that most people disapproved of the bailout but Congress did it anyways and added tons of pork to boot. What are most people doing about it? Crying on an internet message board while waiting for their latte.

 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
Originally posted by: chess9
Originally posted by: jman19
Originally posted by: chess9
*snip*
2. Bank executives will get huge performance incentives and bonuses because they got the money from Treasury, and used it to pad their P and L.
*snip*
-Robert

There might be some small added comp for the bankers who have worked on issuing securities to the US treasury in exchange for the capital infusion, but the money from the treasury won't pad the P&L, it will be a capital cushion.

Ultimately it will pad the P & L. Sure, it goes to the capital account initially, but it won't sit there.


-Robert

Do you even understand how accounting works?
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
Originally posted by: chess9
Btw, I'm a liberal Democrat, but I've yet to find one argument for this bailout bill that was compelling. If any of you have THE STRONG ARGUMENT for this bailout bill, I'd love to hear it. So far, all I've heard are platitudes and lies, and now we see the bankers are doing what's best for their institutions and not the immediate needs of our economy. I find myself in the odd position of agreeing with the whacked out right wingers who opposed the bailout. Someone, please, bring me back to political orthodoxy on this issue. ;)

-Robert

So in other words, you don't know what the fuck you are talking about, are too ignorant to understand anything beyond your narrow tunnel vision, and dismiss everything you don't understand because you don't want to learn.

That's why it's pointless to argue with people like you.
 

sonoma1993

Diamond Member
May 31, 2004
3,413
21
81
Originally posted by: SleepWalkerX
So when will banks give loans?

?Twenty-five billion dollars is obviously going to help the folks who are struggling more than Chase,? he began. ?What we do think it will help us do is perhaps be a little bit more active on the acquisition side or opportunistic side for some banks who are still struggling. And I would not assume that we are done on the acquisition side just because of the Washington Mutual and Bear Stearns mergers. I think there are going to be some great opportunities for us to grow in this environment, and I think we have an opportunity to use that $25 billion in that way and obviously depending on whether recession turns into depression or what happens in the future, you know, we have that as a backstop.?

Read that answer as many times as you want ? you are not going to find a single word in there about making loans to help the American economy. On the contrary: at another point in the conference call, the same executive (who I?m not naming because he didn?t know I would be listening in) explained that ?loan dollars are down significantly.? He added, ?We would think that loan volume will continue to go down as we continue to tighten credit to fully reflect the high cost of pricing on the loan side.? In other words JPMorgan has no intention of turning on the lending spigot.

Could someone explain why we gave them tax payer dollars again?

i heard about this on the radio this morning. The radio host were talking about how the executives were going to use the money to buy other banks and give out bonuses to the executives

 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Originally posted by: chess9
Originally posted by: jman19
Originally posted by: chess9
*snip*
2. Bank executives will get huge performance incentives and bonuses because they got the money from Treasury, and used it to pad their P and L.
*snip*
-Robert

There might be some small added comp for the bankers who have worked on issuing securities to the US treasury in exchange for the capital infusion, but the money from the treasury won't pad the P&L, it will be a capital cushion.

Ultimately it will pad the P & L. Sure, it goes to the capital account initially, but it won't sit there.


-Robert

Do you even understand how accounting works?

Don't bother with chess9, he's a fucking lawyer.

To address the OP, big banks consolidating does provide liquidity in that it stabilizes the market.

 

sactoking

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2007
7,635
2,897
136
While I agree with this:
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Do you even understand how accounting works?
There was a lot wrong with that, but to me it's understandable since accounting is pretty esoteric and counterintuitive at times.

I find this:
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
So in other words, you don't know what the fuck you are talking about, are too ignorant to understand anything beyond your narrow tunnel vision, and dismiss everything you don't understand because you don't want to learn.

That's why it's pointless to argue with people like you.
to be way over the top.

I mean, seriously. He said that it looked like the bailout is being used for contrarian purposes and wondered about whether it was necessary if the $700bn isn't going to what it was supposed to. He seemed open to convincing that, even though we were lied to (again) it would serve some good. In light of how things are going, how the hell does that amount to 'narrow tunnel vision' and a 'dismissal of everything [he doesn't] understand'?
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
Originally posted by: sactoking
While I agree with this:
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Do you even understand how accounting works?
There was a lot wrong with that, but to me it's understandable since accounting is pretty esoteric and counterintuitive at times.

I find this:
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
So in other words, you don't know what the fuck you are talking about, are too ignorant to understand anything beyond your narrow tunnel vision, and dismiss everything you don't understand because you don't want to learn.

That's why it's pointless to argue with people like you.
to be way over the top.

I mean, seriously. He said that it looked like the bailout is being used for contrarian purposes and wondered about whether it was necessary if the $700bn isn't going to what it was supposed to. He seemed open to convincing that, even though we were lied to (again) it would serve some good. In light of how things are going, how the hell does that amount to 'narrow tunnel vision' and a 'dismissal of everything [he doesn't] understand'?

Accounting isn't "esoteric", as it is codified and quite easy to understand. Additionally, it's not too fucking hard to understand that capital does not equal profit. one is the balance sheet, the other is the income statement. If you're an educated person who is at least open to reason, logic, and reality, you should understand that. Then, when corrected, he completely ignores it and then makes up some bullshit about it somehow happening anyway.

Are you kidding me?

When shown that he is wrong he simply deflects or just posts in another thread. He isn't being contrarian for the purposes of learning, he is being contrarian for the purposes of spreading his agenda. If he was truly open to suggestions he wouldn't dismiss them so easily, nor would he ignore when he is wrong and merely post somewhere else.

The uses of the rescue plan aren't contrarian as *ANY* activity to stabilize the system *IS* providing liquidity, since the main reason why there isn't liquidity is because the system is unstable. Instability causes the lack of desire to invest, since you don't know who is next.

This has been highlighted to him, and others, multiple times. Yet, amazingly, he keeps coming back.

WHY?

Is it because he has tunnel vision and really doesn't want to learn anything, or is it because that somehow he just doesn't get it? This is a guy who is supposedly a lawyer, yet doesn't even know the difference between a BS and an IS.

I knew the difference before I even took a finance course in grad school, while I was taking psych courses in undergrad, because I wanted to know how companies work.

Now, supposedly, we have a guy who completed 4 years of undergrad, 3 years of law school. While in law school he was supposed to learn about corporations. Then he's supposedly a learned person who has researched (if he hasn't, then he deserves as much scorn that can be heaped on him since he proclaims rather than asks questions and dismisses easily), how corporations and the economy works.

let's take his claims of being a lawyer as being true. That still doesn't dismiss him from doing what he does, which is the lack of being able to actually absorb reality. How then should he be treated?

If an annoying mosquito keeps biting you, do you simply shoo it away, or do you try to swat the damn thing down? Sure, I could ignore it, just like any other RPB on here, yet I don't because he, or people like him, convince others he is right, mainly through mantra repeating of the same silly message.

I really don't give a rats ass about him, I know he won't change. However, his ideas should be countered and proven wrong, if not, then others will learn incorrectly also.
 

NoStateofMind

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 2005
9,711
6
76
Originally posted by: sactoking
While I agree with this:
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Do you even understand how accounting works?
There was a lot wrong with that, but to me it's understandable since accounting is pretty esoteric and counterintuitive at times.

I find this:
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
So in other words, you don't know what the fuck you are talking about, are too ignorant to understand anything beyond your narrow tunnel vision, and dismiss everything you don't understand because you don't want to learn.

That's why it's pointless to argue with people like you.
to be way over the top.

I mean, seriously. He said that it looked like the bailout is being used for contrarian purposes and wondered about whether it was necessary if the $700bn isn't going to what it was supposed to. He seemed open to convincing that, even though we were lied to (again) it would serve some good. In light of how things are going, how the hell does that amount to 'narrow tunnel vision' and a 'dismissal of everything [he doesn't] understand'?

He cannot have a conversation without being a total ass. In every one of his posts he berates people. I guess his personal life must be pretty bad and he must make up for it on here. That's truly sad and I hope he gets some help. He needs it.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Originally posted by: sactoking
While I agree with this:
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Do you even understand how accounting works?
There was a lot wrong with that, but to me it's understandable since accounting is pretty esoteric and counterintuitive at times.

I find this:
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
So in other words, you don't know what the fuck you are talking about, are too ignorant to understand anything beyond your narrow tunnel vision, and dismiss everything you don't understand because you don't want to learn.

That's why it's pointless to argue with people like you.
to be way over the top.

I mean, seriously. He said that it looked like the bailout is being used for contrarian purposes and wondered about whether it was necessary if the $700bn isn't going to what it was supposed to. He seemed open to convincing that, even though we were lied to (again) it would serve some good. In light of how things are going, how the hell does that amount to 'narrow tunnel vision' and a 'dismissal of everything [he doesn't] understand'?

He cannot have a conversation without being a total ass. In every one of his posts he berates people. I guess his personal life must be pretty bad and he must make up for it on here. That's truly sad and I hope he gets some help. He needs it.

Ahhh yes, you come in.

My personal life is actually pretty good, thanks. I appreciate your conern though.