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Wasn't everyone fine before the DoJ, FBI, and CIA?

A

Anarchist420

Diamond Member
I've always thought so. The FBI allowed 9/11 to happen, they admitted they could never prove that Bin Laden was behind 9/11, it allowed the OK City bombing to happen, and it was what caused the Waco tragedy. The FBI still hasn't given us more security than the liberty we've given up to have it, pretending that liberty vs. security isn't a false dichotomy.

As for CIA, all it's done is remove dictators that it put in place and we didn't even have it before FDR. It's really nothing more and nothing less than a terrorist organization that wants to dominate everyone else.

The DoJ (of which the FBI is part of) was originally intended to protect the rights of blacks (when it wasn't even necessary to do so), but it has gone way beyond that objective by violating all of the 1st 10 Amendments, and everyone was fine before Grant signed it into law. It has only taken away our liberties, and abolition of it would give us all of the prosperity, liberty, and security we lose by having it.

If there is a counterpoint to any of the above, then I'd like to hear it, even though I won't agree with any counterarguments.
 
Anarchist420 said:
The FBI still hasn't given us more security than the liberty we've given up to have it, pretending that liberty vs. security isn't a false dichotomy.
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How do you expect to handle nation wide crime? A city cop from Ohio can't randomly track some guys into Florida. To cross state lines like that takes special police who have nation wide power... we might even call them the federal bureau of investigation....


As for CIA, all it's done is remove dictators that it put in place and we didn't even have it before FDR. It's really nothing more and nothing less than a terrorist organization that wants to dominate everyone else.
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Yes the CIA is a state sponsored terrorist group, but they're YOUR terrorist group. They make sure the middle east is controlled by the US, not Russia, not China.
 
25% of your posts are threads that you start. It's nice that you have so many ideas, but the wacky weed seems to be affecting the quality of the ideas.
 
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eskimospy said:
I for one am interested to see how the DOJ has been violating the 3rd Amendment.
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It's been violating what Antifederalists would've preferred to be in the Bill of Rights, rather than the joke we got from Federalist James Madison and the Federalist 2nd Congress--the Federal government shall not own more than 10% of the land within U.S. boundaries during peacetime; the power of eminent domain shall not be used without 2/3 of the House and Senate consenting to the same; and Congress shall pay 100% of the locally assessed value to the owner of the property.

Since none of the above made much sense, I didn't say it.
 
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Anarchist420 said:
It's been violating what Antifederalists would've preferred to be in the Bill of Rights, rather than the joke we got from Federalist James Madison and the Federalist 2nd Congress--the Federal government shall not own more than 10% of the land within U.S. boundaries during peacetime; the power of eminent domain shall not be used without 2/3 of the House and Senate consenting to the same; and Congress shall pay 100% of the locally assessed value to the owner of the property.

Since none of the above made much sense, I didn't say it.
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This post hurt my brain.

I'm pretty sure that if something gets enshrined in law rather than your opposing proposal, after a couple hundred years it's time to let it go. But to answer your original question, yes, things were fine before the DoJ, FBI, and CIA. But in each case, something came along that made a majority of lawmakers decide that a new agency/department was needed. For the CIA, it was World War II, which showed an appalling lack of information about the rest of the world on which to base world-altering decisions. For the FBI, it was Congress' desire to keep national detectives from being controlled by the Secret Service (and therefore presumably by the President) coupled with a legitimate need for investigators in interstate organized crime. For the Department of Justice, it goes all the way back to the Judiciary Act of 1789, because if you don't have laws, you don't have a nation.
 
CallMeJoe said:
This seems to be true of most of your posts; are you disowning all of them?
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No, because I really believe in most of what I post.

CitizenKain said:
I'm always surprised you don't end your posts about infowars.

ps: go back to infowars
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I don't have an infowars account, and I'm not really that fond of Alex Jones anyway. He's too protectionist and too supportive of the Constitution for my liking, plus he seems to think that the elites all love each other. There's a reason we haven't seen a one world government yet, that reason being that the elites can't control it because they hate each other.
werepossum said:
This post hurt my brain.

I'm pretty sure that if something gets enshrined in law rather than your opposing proposal, after a couple hundred years it's time to let it go. But to answer your original question, yes, things were fine before the DoJ, FBI, and CIA. But in each case, something came along that made a majority of lawmakers decide that a new agency/department was needed. For the CIA, it was World War II, which showed an appalling lack of information about the rest of the world on which to base world-altering decisions. For the FBI, it was Congress' desire to keep national detectives from being controlled by the Secret Service (and therefore presumably by the President) coupled with a legitimate need for investigators in interstate organized crime. For the Department of Justice, it goes all the way back to the Judiciary Act of 1789, because if you don't have laws, you don't have a nation.
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The CIA had a predecessor, and when they didn't work, they strenghtened it. It actually fucked up and kept Hitler in power, if I'm not mistaken.

Just because a majority of legislators decide to create a new agency, doesn't make it right. Now, if all the legislators consent to a new agency, then it's not as big of a deal, but nothing under the Constitution requires unanimous consent of the States, so I don't like the Constitution. 3/4 of the states should not have the privelege of taking away the rights of the other quarter.

I had thought the DoJ was created by U.S. grant. The Judiciary Act of 1789 defined the number of justices and may have created the cabinet post of Attorney General, but I don't believe that it created the DoJ.
 
Jaepheth said:
No; because there has never been a time when everyone has been fine.
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Very good point.

Anarchist420 said:
No, because I really believe in most of what I post.


I don't have an infowars account, and I'm not really that fond of Alex Jones anyway. He's too protectionist and too supportive of the Constitution for my liking, plus he seems to think that the elites all love each other. There's a reason we haven't seen a one world government yet, that reason being that the elites can't control it because they hate each other.

The CIA had a predecessor, and when they didn't work, they strenghtened it. It actually fucked up and kept Hitler in power, if I'm not mistaken.

Just because a majority of legislators decide to create a new agency, doesn't make it right. Now, if all the legislators consent to a new agency, then it's not as big of a deal, but nothing under the Constitution requires unanimous consent of the States, so I don't like the Constitution. 3/4 of the states should not have the privelege of taking away the rights of the other quarter.

I had thought the DoJ was created by U.S. grant. The Judiciary Act of 1789 defined the number of justices and may have created the cabinet post of Attorney General, but I don't believe that it created the DoJ.
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The Judiciary Act of 1789 created the framework of what became the Department of Justice. As far as the OSS keeping Hitler in power, don't believe everything you read on the Internet. Or ANYTHING you read on PrisonPlanet.com.
 
Yes, the world is anchored to the 18th century and will never progress in the types of threats and structures that existed since then. It always amazes me how people think that there are no crazies in the world that we needed to be protected from.
 
LegendKiller said:
Yes, the world is anchored to the 18th century and will never progress in the types of threats and structures that existed since then. It always amazes me how people think that there are no crazies in the world that we needed to be protected from.
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Even without crazies, as civilization progresses it becomes much more complicated. Much as I dislike the growth of government, it must inevitably also grow larger and more intrusive to deal with this new level of intricacy. Imagine tax law with the original size of government.
 
werepossum said:
Even without crazies, as civilization progresses it becomes much more complicated. Much as I dislike the growth of government, it must inevitably also grow larger and more intrusive to deal with this new level of intricacy. Imagine tax law with the original size of government.
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Thats partly what I mean, government has to grow to accomodate the size and complexity of the people it governs. People fail to realize just how different our lives are from even the late 19th century. There are many complex crimes that the legal system of bygone years wouldn't have any ability to deal with. Eliminating those systems would be chaos (which OP loves). Just the same, the world is far more complex and interconnected, the CIA is a must.
 
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