wasn't asked, didn't tell, but lesbian sergeant still fired?

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,808
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Lesbian Sgt. Discharged After Police Tell Military

Jene Newsome played by the rules as an Air Force sergeant: She never told anyone in the military she was a lesbian. The 28-year-old's honorable discharge under the "don't ask, don't tell" policy came only after police officers in Rapid City, S.D., saw an Iowa marriage certificate in her home and told the nearby Ellsworth Air Force Base.

Newsome and the American Civil Liberties Union filed a complaint against the western South Dakota police department, claiming the officers violated her privacy when they informed the military about her sexual orientation. The case also highlights concerns over the ability of third parties to "out" service members, especially as the Pentagon has started reviewing the 1993 "don't ask, don't tell" law.

"I played by 'don't ask, don't tell,'" Newsome told The Associated Press by telephone.
"I just don't agree with what the Rapid City police department did. ... They violated a lot of internal policies on their end, and I feel like my privacy was violated."

The "don't ask, don't tell" policy has come under renewed debate after Defense Secretary Robert Gates called for a sweeping internal study on the law earlier this year.

As the review is under way, officials were also expected to suggest ways to relax enforcement that may include minimizing cases of third-party outings. In particular, Gates has suggested that the military might not have to expel someone whose sexual orientation was revealed by a third party out of vindictiveness or suspect motives.

The Rapid City Police Department says Newsome, an aircraft armament system craftsman who spent nine years in the Air Force, was not cooperative when they showed up at her home in November with an arrest warrant for her partner, who was wanted on theft charges in Fairbanks, Alaska.

Newsome was at work at the base at the time and refused to immediately come home and assist the officers in finding her partner, whom she married in Iowa — where gay marriage is legal — in October.

Police officers, who said they spotted the marriage license on the kitchen table through a window of Newsome's home, alerted the base
, police Chief Steve Allender said in a statement sent to the AP. The license was relevant to the investigation because it showed both the relationship and residency of the two women, he said.

"It's an emotional issue and it's unfortunate that Newsome lost her job, but I disagree with the notion that our department might be expected to ignore the license, or not document the license, or withhold it from the Air Force once we did know about it," Allender said Saturday. "It was a part of the case, part of the report and the Air Force was privileged to the information."

He said his department does not seek to expose gay military personnel or investigate the sexuality of Rapid City residents.

Allender said the department was finishing its internal investigation and has determined the officers acted appropriately. They have not been placed on leave during the investigation.

Newsome's partner is currently out on bail on one felony and three misdemeanor counts of theft stemming from an incident last year, court officials in Fairbanks said. More information was not immediately available, and Newsome said she didn't know the status of the case and didn't provide more details about it.

In the complaint filed last month with the department, ACLU South Dakota said police had no legal reason to tell the military Newsome was a lesbian and that officers knew if they did, it would jeopardize her military career.

Newsome, who was discharged in January, said she didn't know where the marriage license was in her home when police came to her house on Nov. 20 and claims the officers were retaliating because she wouldn't help with her partner's arrest.

"This information was intentionally turned over because of 'don't ask, don't tell' and to out Jene so that she would lose her military status," said Robert Doody, executive director of ACLU South Dakota. The ACLU is focusing its complaint on the police department, not the military, and Newsome said she and her attorney have not yet decided on whether to file a lawsuit.

"The 'don't ask, don't tell' piece is important and critical to this, but also it's a police misconduct case," Doody said.

A U.S. Air Force spokesman, Senior Airman Adam Grant, said Ellsworth follows all laws set out by Congress and the Defense Department, and he would not comment specifically on Newsome's discharge, citing privacy policy.

More than 13,500 service members have been discharged under the law since 1994, according to the Servicemembers Legal Defense Network, which is lobbying for its repeal. Kevin Nix, communications director of the Washington, D.C.-based nonprofit, couldn't speak about Newsome's case, but said when "someone is outed by a third party, which it sounds like this was, or by a police officer, then, yeah ... I'm not surprised the person was discharged."

Though rare, third-party outing can be especially damaging to service members who wanted to keep their sexual orientation hidden, experts say.

Even though 80 percent of "don't ask, don't tell" discharges come from gay and lesbian service members who out themselves, third-party outings are "some of the most heinous instances of 'don't, ask, don't tell,'" said Nathaniel Frank, a research fellow with the Palm Center think tank at the University of California, Santa Barbara and a New York University professor.

Newsome, who is originally from Harrisburg, Pa., is currently on the road, driving to Alaska. She said she'd been looking forward to the time when the military would alter its policies regarding gays and lesbians. But that change didn't come in time to save her career.

"I felt like it was getting close," she said. "I was really hopeful."
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5icziXkeLzQNoEsBXobbt3iZZb4PgD9EDUQ180

I'm trying to wrap my head around this... it's not enough to abide by DA/DT, now people have to worry about what perfectly legal documents random people might see when spying through their windows?
 
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spittledip

Diamond Member
Apr 23, 2005
4,480
1
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She should sue big time. This really is a travesty. I am not sure how her being a lesbian factors into her job performance.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,171
18,808
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This whole thing is a train wreck. Don't ask don't tell was stupid, and caving into people's irrational fears and hatred is too. End the policy and start firing people for being bigots instead of firing people for loving others.
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
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So I guess it's not don't ask don't tell, it's don't let anyone find out.
 

marvdmartian

Diamond Member
Apr 12, 2002
5,443
27
91
For the life of me, I cannot figure out why the police department would get all bent out of shape because a military member, at work on the base, cannot come home immediately to help them look for her roommate (which is all her partner was at that time, until the marriage license was seen). Can someone explain that?

I mean, it's not as though she could use the excuse, "I had to go help the police find my roommate, at my house" when and if she went up for NJP/court martial for being AWOL, could she? I'm pretty sure she had some superior officer or NCO who she'd have to notify that she was leaving work, and why..... and if she had problems finding that person, could be delayed.

Plus the fact......who the heck just leaves their marriage license out on the kitchen table, where anyone looking through the window can easily read it? Especially if said person is married to a person of the same sex AND is in the military, where they know they can be thrown out for having a homosexual relationship!!

The more I read the article, the more it sounded as though some snitty cop decided he'd "fix" those lesbians by reporting their relationship to the base, and get one of them thrown out of the air force. I mean, how dare they not show up immediately when summoned? And how dare they not want to be with a man? :rolleyes:
 

3chordcharlie

Diamond Member
Mar 30, 2004
9,859
1
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This whole thing is a train wreck. Don't ask don't tell was stupid, and caving into people's irrational fears and hatred is too. End the policy and start firing people for being bigots instead of firing people for loving others.

DADT was a poor compromise, but the best that could be managed nearly 20 years ago. It is long overdue to be replaced by a real policy.
 

jhu

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
11,918
9
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DADT was a poor compromise, but the best that could be managed nearly 20 years ago. It is long overdue to be replaced by a real policy.

What I find strange is that the DOD job postings I keep seeing say that the DOD is an equal opportunity employer.
 
Feb 10, 2000
30,029
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She has no standing to sue, and this discharge is absolutely consistent with DADT. I don't like DADT and believe gays should be allowed to openly serve, but this woman got married to another woman, a homosexual act. This is prohibited under DADT. While's it's unfortunate this played out the way it did, she didn't hold up her end of DADT, and unless the policy changes this was more or less a mandatory discharge.
 

3chordcharlie

Diamond Member
Mar 30, 2004
9,859
1
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What I find strange is that the DOD job postings I keep seeing say that the DOD is an equal opportunity employer.
Well they are, sort of, kinda, in a way that would get any private employer reprimanded, fined, or worse (especially if the advertised their equal opportunitiness)
 

3chordcharlie

Diamond Member
Mar 30, 2004
9,859
1
81
She has no standing to sue, and this discharge is absolutely consistent with DADT. I don't like DADT and believe gays should be allowed to openly serve, but this woman got married to another woman, a homosexual act. This is prohibited under DADT. While's it's unfortunate this played out the way it did, she didn't hold up her end of DADT, and unless the policy changes this was more or less a mandatory discharge.
She seems to be considering a suit against the police, not against DADT.
 

DucatiMonster696

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2009
4,269
1
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Newsome's partner is currently out on bail on one felony and three misdemeanor counts of theft stemming from an incident last year, court officials in Fairbanks said. More information was not immediately available, and Newsome said she didn't know the status of the case and didn't provide more details about it.



There is more to this then meets the eye.

1.) Cops came to serve a warrant and she denied them the ability to do so and forced them to seek alternative measures with her employer.

2.) They saw the license in the home and immediately contacted the Air Force to let them know one of their service members was preventing them from doing their job and that there was a legitimate connection between these two people.

She outed herself via her own stupid actions. As for the military she new the policy before going into this all volunteer force.
 
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DucatiMonster696

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2009
4,269
1
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She seems to be considering a suit against the police, not against DADT.

She still has no case. The cops came to serve a warrant and she prevented them from doing so in the first place. They used the alternative route of contacting her employer the military who has the ability to force her to comply with a lawful demand in regards to allowing them to serve a warrant to her partner. She screwed herself.
 

3chordcharlie

Diamond Member
Mar 30, 2004
9,859
1
81
She still has no case. The cops came to serve a warrant and she prevented them from doing so in the first place. They used the alternative route of contacting her employer the military who has the ability to force her to comply with a lawful demand in regards to allowing them to serve a warrant to her partner. She screwed herself.

I don't see how she prevented them from doing anything; cops got pissy and outed her, knowing fully the consequences. Sounds like typical behaviour for about half the cops out there to me.
 

DucatiMonster696

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2009
4,269
1
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I don't see how she prevented them from doing anything; cops got pissy and outed her, knowing fully the consequences. Sounds like typical behaviour for about half the cops out there to me.

Prove that the cops got "pissy"? I want tangible evidence that they did this out of spite other then your inane assumptions you just pulled out of your butt hole.

From the article itself it states that she admits to not cooperating with the police officers in their investigation when they sought to arrest her partner on felony charges at her home.


Newsome, who was discharged in January, said she didn't know where the marriage license was in her home when police came to her house on Nov. 20 and claims the officers were retaliating because she wouldn't help with her partner's arrest.


The cops had no other means but to contact her employer (the Air force) to get her to cooperate in their case. Also in case you do not know the Air Force has rules in regards to how people conduct themselves while they are in the service. Not cooperating with the police in an investigation to protect your felonious "life partner"/spouse/family member, etc is a violation of those rules of conduct.

She made her bed by protecting a someone wanted on felonies when the cops showed up. Of course now she is playing the victim using her sexual orientation as a means to cover up the fact that she aided and abetted a person wanted of on felony charges.
 

wwswimming

Banned
Jan 21, 2006
3,695
1
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speaking of lesbians, once i had a job interview with the ladies who run
http://www.goodvibes.com/

one of the world's premier adult toy shops. they were thinking about designing a next generation vibrator and were looking for a mechanical engineer to help with the molds etc.

definitely one of the most interesting job interviews i've ever had. i got to ask all sorts of questions about "what feels good", etc. the interview lasted about 2 1/2 hours. they drew diagrams and talked about female ejaculation and all sorts of things that i never knew about.

speaking of lesbians.
 

3chordcharlie

Diamond Member
Mar 30, 2004
9,859
1
81
Prove that the cops got "pissy"? I want tangible evidence that they did this out of spite other then your inane assumptions you just pulled out of your butt hole.

From the article itself it states that she admits to not cooperating with the police officers in their investigation when they sought to arrest her partner on felony charges at her home.





The cops had no other means but to contact her employer (the Air force) to get her to cooperate in their case. Also in case you do not know the Air Force has rules in regards to how people conduct themselves while they are in the service. Not cooperating with the police in an investigation to protect your felonious "life partner"/spouse/family member, etc is a violation of those rules of conduct.

She made her bed by protecting a someone wanted on felonies when the cops showed up. Of course now she is playing the victim using her sexual orientation as a means to cover up the fact that she aided and abetted a person wanted of on felony charges.

There are about a million levels of not cooperating; all that is in the story is that she declined to leave work, during a shift, to help them. All the police would have to tell her employer, if anything, is that someone at her address had an outstanding warrant, and her cooperation was needed.

Sorry boss, but you have no way to declare 'this is all her fault', and no way to tie together that the information released had to be released to get the job done. Working in and around DADT (which is absolutely a BS policy, especially now) would seem to call for some discretion, which was certainly not demonstrated here.
 

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,336
11
0
speaking of lesbians, once i had a job interview with the ladies who run
http://www.goodvibes.com/

one of the world's premier adult toy shops. they were thinking about designing a next generation vibrator and were looking for a mechanical engineer to help with the molds etc.

definitely one of the most interesting job interviews i've ever had. i got to ask all sorts of questions about "what feels good", etc. the interview lasted about 2 1/2 hours. they drew diagrams and talked about female ejaculation and all sorts of things that i never knew about.

speaking of lesbians.
:awe:
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
0
It is BS. Time to ditch the DODT policy.

Perhaps is should be "Don't ask, Don't tell, Don't care"

Meaning, we won't ask if you are gay, you don't go around telling people that you are gay, and if a third party brings forth that you are gay we don't care.

Third party outings should be ignored. If you show up and do your job and behave properly then I don't care what you do in your free time, and neither should the military.
 

DucatiMonster696

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2009
4,269
1
71
There are about a million levels of not cooperating

Complete bullshit that would not hold its weight in a court of law.



all that is in the story is that she declined to leave work, during a shift, to help them.

Which is called aiding and abetting, especially when the cops know that the felon in question resides in the home and there is a motive via a relationship for her to hide her partner, stall for time or just not cooperate.


All the police would have to tell her employer, if anything, is that someone at her address had an outstanding warrant, and her cooperation was needed.

complete bullshit.

The police had to show motive and a relationship between the two to demonstrate to her employer why she was not cooperating with their requests. She also failed to realize that the Air Force and military itself has code of conduct that everyone is expected to adhere too. Protecting a felon by not cooperating with the police further damaged her cause.

Again she brought this onto herself but I guess if it doesn't meet your political and personal views you fail at seeing the logic behind the actions taken by police department. Action which I might add would be no different if she were straight, and her husband was on the run from the cops because of his felony warrants.


Sorry boss, but you have no way to declare 'this is all her fault', and no way to tie together that the information released had to be released to get the job done.

And you have no right to state that the cops acted out of spite. The police department had a job to do and her non-compliance in helping them apprehend her felonious lover put her in the position she finds herself in right now.


Working in and around DADT (which is absolutely a BS policy, especially now) would seem to call for some discretion, which was certainly not demonstrated here.

Her resulting actions due to her relationship nullified any discretion the police would of shown if she had of cooperated with their investigation and assisted them in apprehending the felon they were after. They had a need to show the nature of her relationship to her employer due to her non-cooperation, again she screwed herself.

Also her sexual orientation is not a defense in hindering or putting aside the apprehension and investigation of a felon. In this case when she forced the issue and made them prove the nature of her, her lover's relationship. Hence she dug her own grave.

If you don't like the nature of the DADT policy blame Clinton for enacting it and Obama for continuing it, yet the police did nothing wrong.
 
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3chordcharlie

Diamond Member
Mar 30, 2004
9,859
1
81
I can't blame Clinton for enacting DADT, because it is better however incrementally than the previous state of things. I can certainly blame Bush and Obama for continuing it, though I'm not so sure it should have been a first-year priority for a President who didn't really make it a big election issue.

All the police needed to tell her employer was that they had a warrant for her place, it wasn't for her, but she was their 'set of keys'. There is absolutely no way they needed to establish her relationship for her employer here, especially since they 100% knew the consequences.

It's pretty hard to cast this as anything other than vindictive.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Sounds like there were some other issues at work here, I bet it was NOT for DADT but for conduct unbecoming.