Washer fluid antifreeze

[bamx2]

Due to local environmental regulations in my multi-county SE metro area , I can only buy +20 deg F washer fluid. It is much colder than that this winter. I want to bring the freezing temperature down near 0 deg F for Jan and Feb.

Other than going out of the area and buying the "good stuff" that has a higher concentration of methanol that goes to -20 deg F, my solutions seem to be adding methanol or isopropyl alcohol
( what to use , concentration of mix etc ?) .

Some help on this is appreciated.

 

[shortylickens]

I got the -20 stuff.

It still freezes at about 30 degrees. I think its just a scam. Can only recommend you add salt or alcohol to the mix, but I have no idea on the ratios.

Or see if ebay & amazon have some super duper cold fluid for you.

 

[heymrdj]

I got the -20 stuff.

It still freezes at about 30 degrees. I think its just a scam. Can only recommend you add salt or alcohol to the mix, but I have no idea on the ratios.

Or see if ebay & amazon have some super duper cold fluid for you.

Did you completely drain the system before you added it? Obviously you did something wrong or you bought a tainted jug, as it's just plainly not a scam .

I have -30 stuff and have yet to have it freeze, including this morning at -15 degrees. The stuff works, if you put it in your system properly.

 

[LTC8K6]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...-can-still-freeze-on-your-car/article6487783/

The alcohol evaporates quickly when you spray the fluid and this makes the water that's left in the mix freeze all the faster.

 

[Mark R]

I'd use ethanol rather than methanol, if you can get it as it's not as toxic. Isopropyl is an option, but it's much more expensive than denatured ethanol.

To avoid the problem of the alcohol evaporating and leaving water behind (mainly a problem with methanol) add 20% propylene glycol to the mix. This is quite expensive, but easily obtainable off ebay, and it is non toxic and non-flammable.

I make my own from water and denatured ethanol (99% hydrous ethanol, 1% methyl-ethyl ketone):
40% ethanol is good to -20 F.

Alternatively 25% propylene glycol in water will get you to 0 F, and 50% to -30 F.

 

[nForce2]

Did you completely drain the system before you added it? Obviously you did something wrong or you bought a tainted jug, as it's just plainly not a scam .

I have -30 stuff and have yet to have it freeze, including this morning at -15 degrees. The stuff works, if you put it in your system properly.

Word for word, this is what I would have typed. :thumbsup:

I'm using the purple "Winter Formula" windshield washer fluid from PEAK. It's rated to -25 degrees, and I can confirm that it hadn't frozen at -16 yesterday. I ran the system completely dry before I put it in last fall, and it's been fantastic this winter. :thumbsup::thumbsup:

I specifically look for the winter & summer formulas from brands that make the color distinct (not just blue for everything). When you open your hood, you can tell right away which type you have in there, and you then know without question if you need to flush it through or not before the winter hits.

 

[Jimzz]

I'd use ethanol rather than methanol, if you can get it as it's not as toxic. Isopropyl is an option, but it's much more expensive than denatured ethanol.

To avoid the problem of the alcohol evaporating and leaving water behind (mainly a problem with methanol) add 20% propylene glycol to the mix. This is quite expensive, but easily obtainable off ebay, and it is non toxic and non-flammable.

I make my own from water and denatured ethanol (99% hydrous ethanol, 1% methyl-ethyl ketone):
40% ethanol is good to -20 F.

Alternatively 25% propylene glycol in water will get you to 0 F, and 50% to -30 F.

I think propylene glycol is what prestone adds to their winter washer fluid.

I just add extra alcohol to the -20 stuff and it works fine for NoVA... usually.

 

[phucheneh]

If you see the way shops do it, there is NOT much in normal washer fluid. I mean, the people running them are usually super-stingy and want us to pretty much use water (...don't really consider the cost of buying/installing washer jugs for loyal customers).

But going by the instruction of the manufacturers of bulk additive, the ratio of product:water is pretty crazy. 'Summer mixes' are like a pint or two of fluid per 55 gallon drum of water. I skip that and try and just always use the 'winter' spec, as the same fluid might sit in the jug for 6+ months for some people. Said winter mix might call for like...a quart.

They claim legit freeze protection. I've always wondered what the hell is in any of that stuff...it's supplied by the kinds of companies that deliver oil filters, wheel weights, ect and lacks any chemical info (probably buried in the MSDS book somewhere if anyone actually bothered to add the sheet). Surely it's not methanol, as you'd need a hell of a lot more to get any freeze protection.

Antifreeze (propylene glycol) is an interesting idea. It has lubricative properties, too, so it would probably prolong the life of the pump motor and keep the nozzles unclogged. But no idea what kind of ratio you'd want to use. I would think enough to protect to 0*F or less would be a little too substantial...you'd have a greasy windshield that wouldn't want to wipe clean. While others expressed evaporation concerns with alcohol...the thing with antifreeze is that it doesn't evaporate. Ever. Common knowledge if you routinely clean floors that you've spilled it on.

Perhaps the key is a decent percentage of alcohol plus a smidge of PG. Surely someone must actually publish the contents of their winter washer/deicer blend somewhere.

 

[phucheneh]

I felt I should add a clarification since I linked propylene glycol to 'antifreeze'-

Normal 'green' antifreeze is traditionally ethylene glycol. That's the poisonous one. Do not put that in your washer fluid. If you choose to try adding PG to your washer...make sure it's PG. I have no idea if 'pure' PG is available or not, but it's also worth noting that a commercial antifreeze mix is probably a better idea. Concentrated (not 50/50) antifreeze is still not 100% glycol; there are additives that prevent oxidation and other phenomena.

Curiously, while confirming a couple facts on Wikipedia (okay, maybe 'confirm' is a strong word for that) I noticed some mention of microbial growth in propylene glycol...surely that's not a factor in the whole 'Dexcool is crap' thing, right? I've dealt with so much of that sludged-up shit...I don't want no microbes on me. =(

 

[nForce2]

They claim legit freeze protection. I've always wondered what the hell is in any of that stuff...it's supplied by the kinds of companies that deliver oil filters, wheel weights, ect and lacks any chemical info (probably buried in the MSDS book somewhere if anyone actually bothered to add the sheet). Surely it's not methanol, as you'd need a hell of a lot more to get any freeze protection.

I felt I should add a clarification since I linked propylene glycol to 'antifreeze'-

Normal 'green' antifreeze is traditionally ethylene glycol. That's the poisonous one. Do not put that in your washer fluid.

So would it surprise you then, to know that the winter blend fluid that I posted above is up to 35% Methanol, and the version which is good down to -30 degrees has up to 3% Ethylene Glycol? They must be significantly different formulations than the shops you are referring to...

http://images.peakauto.com/Wash_Premium_minus25.pdf
http://images.peakauto.com/Wash_premium_minus30_msds.pdf

 

[phucheneh]

So would it surprise you then, to know that the winter blend fluid that I posted above is up to 35% Methanol, and the version which is good down to -30 degrees has up to 3% Ethylene Glycol? They must be significantly different formulations than the shops you are referring to...

http://images.peakauto.com/Wash_Premium_minus25.pdf
http://images.peakauto.com/Wash_premium_minus30_msds.pdf

Shops don't buy gallon jugs of washer fluid. They mix it in bulk from concentrate. What I was saying is that in the amounts specified by the makers of the concentrates, claimed freeze protection is either a) magic or b) bullshit. Even per 'winter mix' instructions, you add less than half a gallon. To 55 gallons of water. If the concentrate was 100% methanol, you'd still end up with an end product that's less than 1%.

Like I said, I dunno what's actually in them. I think it's just blue dye and soap. If you see someone pouring from an actual washer jug, it's probably still not off-the-shelf fluid...apparently there's some stupid safety requirement about using clear jugs, so places that want to be compliant will buy a case of of it just to keep the containers. No idea why it matters. Or if someone was full of shit...I remember telling some inspector chick that she was an idiot and carefully advised her to not drink from ANY of my antifreeze jugs containing various fluids. I did resist the temptation to keep one full of Koolaid just to ruffle her feathers...

I am surprised that the off-the-shelf stuff has ethylene glycol. That small an amount isn't terribly worrisome, though, given the 35% methanol, LOL. I thought methanol concentration topped out at more like 15%.

 

[LTC8K6]

I've had good luck with the purple -35 Windex de-icer fluid from Wal-Mart.

http://i.walmartimages.com/i/p/00/05/21/10/12/0005211012325_500X500.jpg

 

[sontakke]

Before my car goes in for any service, I make sure I top off the windshield fluid myself. I keep jug or two of the winter formula handy. This avoids all the headaches associated with it freezing on the glass.

 

[smackababy]

Before my car goes in for any service, I make sure I top off the windshield fluid myself. I keep jug or two of the winter formula handy. This avoids all the headaches associated with it freezing on the glass.

Yep. I use the winter stuff year round. That way I never have to worry about changing it when it starts to get cold.

 

[Jimzz]

I've had good luck with the purple -35 Windex de-icer fluid from Wal-Mart.

http://i.walmartimages.com/i/p/00/05/21/10/12/0005211012325_500X500.jpg

Yea looks similar to prestones washer fluid...

Component CAS # %
Ammonia 1336-21-6 <1
Ethylene Glycol 107-21-1 <3
Dye 81-88-9 <1
Methanol 67-56-1 <35
Fragrance 80-26-2 <1
Denatonium Benzoate 3734-33-6 <1​

Deionized Water 7732-18-5 >60


Mostly water, methanol, and a little ethylene glycol. Standard premium washer fluid.

 

[DVad3r]

I buy the costco -45 one and the canadian tire -45 one with detergent, works like a charm.

 

[LTC8K6]

Yea looks similar to prestones washer fluid...

Component CAS # %
Ammonia 1336-21-6 <1
Ethylene Glycol 107-21-1 <3
Dye 81-88-9 <1
Methanol 67-56-1 <35
Fragrance 80-26-2 <1
Denatonium Benzoate 3734-33-6 <1​

Deionized Water 7732-18-5 >60


Mostly water, methanol, and a little ethylene glycol. Standard premium washer fluid.

But it's purple...