was this shooting justified?

shooting justified?

  • yes

  • no


Results are only viewable after voting.

SandEagle

Lifer
Aug 4, 2007
16,809
13
0
'They didn't deserve to die': Outrage after popular students are found murdered in man's basement after 'they robbed his home on Thanksgiving'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...basement-claims-robbed-home-Thanksgiving.html

In a criminal complaint, Smith said he was in the basement of his home when he heard a window breaking and footsteps. Fearful of other recent break-ins, he shot Schaeffel when he came into view.
When the teenager tumbled down the stars, Smith shot him in the face as he lay on the floor, looking up.

'I want him dead,' the complaint quoted Smith as telling an investigator.
He dragged the body into his workshop and then sat in the chair, the complaint said. When Kifer began walking down the stairs, he shot her and she fell down the stairs.
He tried to shoot her again with his rifle, but the gun jammed and Kifer laughed at him, the complaint noted.

'If you're trying to shoot somebody and they laugh at you, you go again,' Smith, 64, told investigators, according to a criminal complaint filed Monday.
He then shot her several times in the chest with a .22-caliber revolver, dragged her next to her cousin, and with as she gasped for air, fired a shot under her chin 'up into the cranium'.
'Smith described it as "a good clean finishing shot",' according to the compliant, and acknowledged he had fired 'more shots than (he) needed to'.

damn, that's cold. pics of 17 and 18 yr old victims in link.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
no real sympathy for them. But this guy should do time for that.
 

OverVolt

Lifer
Aug 31, 2002
14,278
89
91
That is one sadistic crazy $%^# head.

There is a difference between people doing dumb shit and an actual burglary. He should have been able to tell.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
That is one sadistic crazy $%^# head.

There is a difference between people doing dumb shit and an actual burglary. He should have been able to tell.

mah. dumb shit is TPing the house. once you enter the house its something different. you don't want to risk it?d on't enter someones house.



I will say i think the guy is a batshit crazy motherfucker who needs to be in jail. but any sympathy over the kids deaths? fuck no. idiotic kids.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
It's a gun owner's wet dream.

i know a few gun owners. None of them wan't to murder someone in cold blood.

this wasn't "stand your ground' or defending your home. it may have started that way but went far far beyond that.

this ended up murder. The kids chose the wrong house to break into.
 

velillen

Platinum Member
Jul 12, 2006
2,120
1
81
It's every gun owner's wet dream.

No its really not. I dont know a single gun owner who WANTS to shoot someone.


As for the kids...murdered all the way. From whats been said the guy just sounds crazy. No weapons on the kids and it sounds like he shot first and asked questions later. Came upon the boy and shot him soon as he entered his sights doesnt show he was in immediate danger at all.

Then just the fact he left them there for a day.....i dunno sounds fishy to me, if you got robbed and even shot someone im sure youd call the police right away.

Think the county attorny hit it perfectly......'Mr. Smith intentionally killed two teenagers in his home in a matter that goes well beyond self-defense,' Morrison County Attorney Brian Middendorf said at the hearing.
 

gothamhunter

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2010
4,464
6
81
You guys read the whole story? His house has been burglarized 8 times in recent times, taking very valuable items (and they were suspected in previous times). She had an addiction problem and people suspect she was after pills. It's very sad for those kids, it really is, but he had a right to defend his property. The number of shots were excessive, but if he shot them once each and they both died, they'd still be dead. Dead is dead, and it's their own fault.
 

Newbian

Lifer
Aug 24, 2008
24,779
882
126
Jesus... back in my day you were trying to break out of the basement and not in it.

Some kids these days are demented.
 

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,284
1,998
126
They definitely deserved to get shot. But WTF is up with the guy telling the police how it happened? Just stick a knife in their hand and make it look like a him-or-me situation. He wouldn't have had a problem if he came up with a better story.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
You guys read the whole story? His house has been burglarized 8 times in recent times, taking very valuable items (and they were suspected in previous times). She had an addiction problem and people suspect she was after pills. It's very sad for those kids, it really is, but he had a right to defend his property. The number of shots were excessive, but if he shot them once each and they both died, they'd still be dead. Dead is dead, and it's their own fault.

sure dead is dead. to be honest if he shot them and called the police i don't think it would be as bad a story.

fact is he took it way to far. i think he crossed that line from defense to murder.
 

Farang

Lifer
Jul 7, 2003
10,913
3
0
He then shot her several times in the chest with a .22-caliber revolver, dragged her next to her cousin, and with as she gasped for air, fired a shot under her chin 'up into the cranium'.
'Smith described it as "a good clean finishing shot",' according to the compliant, and acknowledged he had fired 'more shots than (he) needed to'.

Murder.. you've disabled the intruder, then go on to murder the intruder. You don't have the right to be judge jury and executioner, murder.
 

khon

Golden Member
Jun 8, 2010
1,318
124
106
I don't understand how there is even a question here. Open and shut case of murder in the 1st degree.

You have a right to defend yourself and your property, not a right to shoot people in the head while they're lying on the ground unarmed and bleeding.
 

rommelrommel

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2002
4,429
3,213
146
Really can't answer the poll that simply... initial shots absolutely justified. Execution is definitely not justified. Sympathy for criminal idiots not found either.
 

gothamhunter

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2010
4,464
6
81
Maybe they didn't deserve to die, but they shouldn't have broken into his home in the first place. Always someone else's fault for a kid's bad actions/bad outcome.
 

Jadow

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2003
5,962
2
0
letting them live would be a real headache, but then admitting all the crap he did was flat stupid.
 

Iron Woode

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 10, 1999
31,294
12,817
136
I have no sympathy whatsoever for the two youts.

breaking into someone's house is a crime. They weren't there to throw a surprise birthday party. People break-in for a reason: theft, vandalism, rape, murder, squatting, etc... The owner has no idea why they are there, and it doesn't matter anyway. They have no business being there. They could be armed with knives or guns. The owner doesn't know and why should he take the chance?

And what is the reasonable number of shots? Wing them and then watch them shoot the owner? Shoot them until the threat is gone. If that means multiple times, then so be it.

Stop this namby-pamby feeling sorry for criminals. How about feeling sorry for the victims of crimes instead?
 

jagec

Lifer
Apr 30, 2004
24,442
6
81
If you hear gunshots in the room that your partner in crime just entered and both of you are unarmed, not only is it a stupid idea to head down to investigate, it's a REALLY stupid idea to laugh at the guy who just shot you and killed said partner.
 

Fayd

Diamond Member
Jun 28, 2001
7,970
2
76
www.manwhoring.com
'They didn't deserve to die': Outrage after popular students are found murdered in man's basement after 'they robbed his home on Thanksgiving'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...basement-claims-robbed-home-Thanksgiving.html



damn, that's cold. pics of 17 and 18 yr old victims in link.

i have a lot of trouble believing the events of the 'breakin' happened exactly as stated.

the specific chain of events that he claims happened seems way too unlikely to be real...at least to me. i'm not gonna render a statement on whether or not it is justified, because i don't know the full details of the case. I DO believe his story is highly suspect.