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Discussion Was the USA justified invading Afghanistan?

R

Remobz

Platinum Member
We know Iraq was a big lie and not justified.

Could Afghanistan be considered justifiable considering USA was attacked and three thousand people died on US soil.

Did the USA have a choice to not invade? Was it an act of war by Afghanistan sort of?

What are your opinions on this?


I ask these questions because many USA haters from Russia, China, Muslim world always lump Afghanistan as wrong like in Vietnam and Iraq. Should Afghanistan be considered justifiable though?

Moved from OT.

Perknose
Forum Director
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Some kind of In/Out operation would have been better. Don't know if that would have neutered Al Queda though. Multiple operations seem likely to be necessary. Invasion was probably the right call though, just because of the logistics being too difficult otherwise.
 
In retrospext many people may say the US should have implemented a more limited operation against Al Qaeda specifically, rather than a full scale invasion of a sovereign country and government (taliban). There is no easy answer to your question
 
"Justified"? I'm not at all sure (am not convinced enough effort was made to persuade the Taliban to give up Bin Laden or to find another way to get him, but I could be wrong).

I was, unlike many people I know, not opposed to it at the time it began. I suppose because I assumed it would just be a case of blowing some stuff up, allowing the Northern Alliance or another anti-Taliban faction take over, and getting out again. Not hanging around indefinitely in a quagmire while lots of people made money out of it.

More to the point, though, was it smart? The answer to that seems to be much more clearly 'no'.
 
A. P&N

B. Going in? Yes. Not getting the F out sooner was a mistake built on a fantasy of making them modern and democratic. Didn't happen, was never going to happen.

I'm fine with setting the example of "you try this on us and you fing die"
 
A full invasion was unnecessary. But too many in the U.S. were frothing at the mouth and demanding vengeance.

The U.S. could have put out a request to discuss matters with the grandchildren of men Ronald Reagan called "the moral equivalent of our founding fathers."

The Taliban would have never handed over the culprits responsible for the 9-11 attacks. But they may have been rewarded with some sweet swag.
 
Lezunto said:
A full invasion was unnecessary. But too many in the U.S. were frothing at the mouth and demanding vengeance.

The U.S. could have put out a request to discuss matters with the grandchildren of men Ronald Reagan called "the moral equivalent of our founding fathers."

The Taliban would have never handed over the culprits responsible for the 9-11 attacks. But they may have been rewarded with some sweet swag.
Click to expand...
Frothing at the mouth? No. We are a sovereign nation and not a knee jerk bunch of scum like the January 6 bunch.
It was another example of world policing that we have never had any business doing.
 
Remobz said:
Should Afghanistan be considered justifiable though?
Click to expand...
Yes.

The closest thing to a government in Afghanistan gave shelter to an organization that was violently murdering Americans by the thousands.

The whole invasion, Afghan government, attempt to bring democracy, it was all justified.


Was it smart? no. Justified? yes.
 
Justified? Who is the judge?

I mean I have a hard time recognizing a "sovereign" nation that does not represent its people and rule via power and suppression.

You/we did some real good there for a minute, for the people, for women. Should not have left IMO.
 
that's a huge step from recognizing to invading and killing a whole shit ton of civs while we pursue our agenda across the world. It's not our fucking playground.
 
Hindsight is always 20/20. It's easy to sit here and use everything we know today and make an opinionated guess based off of that knowledge. Information that was only available in the future at the time. Was it Justified, at the time, yes. Was the outcome what was expected and we wanted, no.


Does anyone seriously believe that it was expected to last 20 years, or even a year? No! I am sure it was expected to be an in and out operation. If I recall correctly, one of the biggest issues that helped drag out the war in the beginning, was the gorilla warfare tactics being used and the rough terrain Al Qaeda knew like the back of their hand. Also, If I recall correctly, The Afghan government wasn't cooperating which is one of the catalysts that ignited the invasion. I am guessing it was supposed to be an in and out operation, but tracking and eliminating Bin laden, and his generals, wasn't as quick and easy as expected. Many times he wasn't where intel said he was. If we did not go in as we did, Bin Laden and most of his generals would most likely still be alive today. However, where we failed, and this takes no hindsight, is not leaving immediately once they where eliminated. That's where the mistake was made. It wasn't goin in as we did, it was not leaving when the operation was done as we should have.
 
I think justified in going in after Al Qaeda and using any means necessary to flush them out. That said, if you’re gonna do regime change, Taliban was probably the first government I’d go after at that time. But of course Dubya got sidetracked with Iraq and that all but guaranteed failure.
 
Sky King, as I said, "frothing at the mouth." Osama bin Laden was killed in Afghanistan. He was discovered and killed in Pakistan.
 
Bush bought into Netanyahu's B.S. about Iraq supposedly having a nuke, stocks of biological weapons and banned chemical weapons.

But no weapons of mass destruction or even a thimble full of biological weapons were ever found in Iraq. And the allies had access to every Iraqi military base and every Saddam palace. Various sources put Iraqi's civilian dead at 200,000.

But I'm certain the Neo Cons who pushed PNAC still crow about it.

Now, Bibi will try to rope the U.S. into attacking Iran, the third target in the PNAC.
 
I think it was. Bin Laden and Al Qaeda were serious ongoing threats. It should have been a bigger operation at the start if anything, not capturing Bin Laden before he fled was a massive failure and to me a big part of why the west stayed.

However, with goals achieved we should have left. The message should be, harbour terrorists and we break your shit.
 
Back then my mindset was, one way or another focused on getting rid of the baddies responsible for the 9/11 attack and leave a message that there is no running and hiding for the perpetrators and their enablers. That's all, that's it.

When Bush and his chickenhawks exploited that mission by attempting to accomplish an agenda that had nothing to do with the original plan, well that was when I got disgusted with those NEOCONS having to involve the nation with an agenda that had nothing to do with 9/11 and they virtually rammed their corporate backed fake patriotic stars and stripes down the nation's throats for their own benefit.
 
NWRMidnight said:
Hindsight is always 20/20. It's easy to sit here and use everything we know today and make an opinionated guess based off of that knowledge. Information that was only available in the future at the time. Was it Justified, at the time, yes. Was the outcome what was expected and we wanted, no.
Click to expand...

I think _at the time_ there was plenty of reason to believe that the US was not capable of 'bringing democracy' to anyone (perhaps least of all a country that has seen off multiple invasions by outsiders over centuries - but it's not just about the nature of Afghanistan, it's also about the nature of the US - a country with that many problems of its own is not in a good position to bring 'freedom' or democracy to anywhere else).

I actually didn't think it would be as bad as it turned out, but that's becuase I thought the US would just topple the Taliban (and _maybe_, with luck, 'get' Bin Laden) and get out.
 
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