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Was Pakistan created by Jinnah based on hatred and fear.. as depicted in the movie Ghandi

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
2
0
I think much of it is a phony argument, there has been a historic struggle between Muslim and Hindu long before the British came to exploit the divisions.

If anything, its India itself that has a simmering conflict as Hindu and Muslims have been at each other throats for better than a Thousand years. And it was only India itself and its mix of religions that blunted the Eastward land based spread of Islam, and after Islam failed to jump the land based barrier, it then went seaward in an end around, and now basically surround India's Hindu to the East and the West.

If nothing else, Pakistan is a largely Muslim Country, and if nothing else, have a valid argument that India's Western border really should be many hundreds of miles further East. And at the same time, even if Pakistan is one the largest population Countries on earth, as I recall at #5, they are still a pygmy when compared to India. And if anything much tension is driven by the Indian Hindu who often riot and butcher the Indian Muslims.
 

crisscross

Golden Member
Apr 29, 2001
1,598
0
71
Originally posted by: Lemon law
I think much of it is a phony argument, there has been a historic struggle between Muslim and Hindu long before the British came to exploit the divisions.

If anything, its India itself that has a simmering conflict as Hindu and Muslims have been at each other throats for better than a Thousand years. And it was only India itself and its mix of religions that blunted the Eastward land based spread of Islam, and after Islam failed to jump the land based barrier, it then went seaward in an end around, and now basically surround India's Hindu to the East and the West.

If nothing else, Pakistan is a largely Muslim Country, and if nothing else, have a valid argument that India's Western border really should be many hundreds of miles further East. And at the same time, even if Pakistan is one the largest population Countries on earth, as I recall at #5, they are still a pygmy when compared to India. And if anything much tension is driven by the Indian Hindu who often riot and butcher the Indian Muslims.
Wow you know everything don't you? :disgust:

Go read thisSwami Vivekananda's speech

I am proud to belong to a nation which has sheltered the persecuted and the refugees of all religions and all nations of the earth. I am proud to tell you that we have gathered in our bosom the purest remnant of the Israelites, who came to Southern India and took refuge with us in the very year in which their holy temple was shattered to pieces by Roman tyranny. I am proud to belong to the religion which has sheltered and is still fostering the remnant of the grand Zoroastrian nation. I will quote to you, brethren, a few lines from a hymn which I remember to have repeated from my earliest boyhood, which is every day repeated by millions of human beings: "As the different streams having their sources in different paths which men take through different tendencies, various though they appear, crooked or straight, all lead to Thee."
And you say Hindus are not secular? Go read up about what the Mughal and Turk emperors did when they looted and plundered India and destroyed temples and Universities- especially Aurangazeb.

Which Islamic country anywhere has a better record with minorities than India? Do you know the Indian government gives money to Indian muslims who go on a pilgrimage to Mecca guess not.


 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
1
0
Jinnah told Hindus
we don't trust you
we don't like you
we don't want to live near you
GET OFF OUR LAND

and that makes him some sort of hero in Islam?
 

crisscross

Golden Member
Apr 29, 2001
1,598
0
71
Originally posted by: dahunan
Jinnah told Hindus
we don't trust you
we don't like you
we don't want to live near you
GET OFF OUR LAND

and that makes him some sort of hero in Islam?
Jinnah didn't give a rat's ass about Islam he drank, ate pork and married a Parsi woman. The only reason partition happened is because he realized he couldn't be the Prime Minister of India.
 

Madwand1

Diamond Member
Jan 23, 2006
3,309
0
76
A spiritual aspiration was the governing force of this culture, its core of thought, its ruling passion. Not only did it make spirituality the highest aim of life, but it even tried, as far as that could be done in the past conditions of the human race, to turn the whole of life towards spirituality. But since religion is in the human mind the first native, if imperfect form of the spiritual impulse, the predominance of the spiritual idea, its endeavour to take hold of life, necessitated a casting of thought and action into the religious mould and a persistent filling of every circumstance of life with the religious sense; it demanded a pervadingly religio-philosophic culture. The highest spirituality indeed moves in a free and wide air far above that lower stage of seeking which is governed by religious form and dogma; it does not easily bear their limitations and, even when it admits, it transcends them; it lives in an experience which to the formal religious mind is unintelligible. But man does not arrive immediately at that highest inner elevation and, if it were demanded from him at once, he would never arrive there. At first he needs lower supports and stages of ascent; he asks for some scaffolding of dogma, worship, image, sign, form, symbol, some indulgence and permission of mixed half-natural motive on which he can stand while he builds up in him the temple of the spirit. Only when the temple is completed, can the supports be removed, the scaffolding disappear.

The religious culture which now goes by the name of Hinduism not only fulfilled this purpose, but, unlike certain credal religions, it knew its purpose. It gave itself no name, because it set itself no sectarian limits; it claimed no universal adhesion, asserted no sole infallible dogma, set up no single narrow path or gate of salvation; it was less a creed or cult than a continuously enlarging tradition of the Godward endeavour of the human spirit. An immense many-sided many-staged provision for a spiritual self-building and self-finding, it had some right to speak of itself by the only name it knew, the eternal religion, sanâtana dharma. It is only if we have a just and right appreciation of this sense and spirit of Indian religion that we can come to an understanding of the true sense and spirit of Indian culture.
- Aurobindo.

To say that Hinduism and Islam have been at each others throats in a historic struggle, while superficially true in part, is a gross misunderstanding of Hinduism as such, which was always ready and willing to absorb aspects of Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, etc., respectfully into its fold. It has actually done this to a great extent. The tragedy is that religions which could learn about themselves from this approach and lend greater harmony to the world would rather imagine God as private property.
 

tvarad

Golden Member
Jun 25, 2001
1,130
0
0
Originally posted by: Lemon law
....
If nothing else, Pakistan is a largely Muslim Country, and if nothing else, have a valid argument that India's Western border really should be many hundreds of miles further East. And at the same time, even if Pakistan is one the largest population Countries on earth, as I recall at #5, they are still a pygmy when compared to India. And if anything much tension is driven by the Indian Hindu who often riot and butcher the Indian Muslims.
In that case, instead of the Taliban being 60 miles from Islamabad, they would have been 60 miles from Delhi right? What a moron! Pakistan was the construct of the muslim feudal mind that couldn't stomach the fact that instead of everything belonging to it, horror of horrors, resources would be a little more evenly distributed in the India envisioned by more moderate Indian leaders like Gandhi, Nehru etc.. Jinnah couched this in religion to give his demand for continued feudal rule legitimacy. Even the Taliban is a cynical product of the very same feudal mind, sending off the poor to madrasas that embody everything but literacy to deflect the genuine demands for development as a cry for bringing in more religion into their already miserable lives. Unfortunately for them, instead of being simple rabble-rousers, they are now threatening to swallow their paymasters.

And enough about rioting and butchering Indian Muslims. The Pakistanis slaughtered 3 million Bangladeshis in 1971 alone, singling out Hindus, intellectuals, raping and bayoneting women And thousands of muslims die in Pakistan every year through suicide bombings and other killings in the name of Islam. All the anti-muslim riots in India combined since independence amount to a fraction of this wanton slaughter.
 

Aberforth

Golden Member
Oct 12, 2006
1,707
1
0
Originally posted by: crisscross
I am proud to belong to a nation which has sheltered the persecuted and the refugees of all religions and all nations of the earth. I am proud to tell you that we have gathered in our bosom the purest remnant of the Israelites, who came to Southern India and took refuge with us in the very year in which their holy temple was shattered to pieces by Roman tyranny. I am proud to belong to the religion which has sheltered and is still fostering the remnant of the grand Zoroastrian nation. I will quote to you, brethren, a few lines from a hymn which I remember to have repeated from my earliest boyhood, which is every day repeated by millions of human beings: "As the different streams having their sources in different paths which men take through different tendencies, various though they appear, crooked or straight, all lead to Thee."
And you say Hindus are not secular? Go read up about what the Mughal and Turk emperors did when they looted and plundered India and destroyed temples and Universities- especially Aurangazeb.

Which Islamic country anywhere has a better record with minorities than India? Do you know the Indian government gives money to Indian muslims who go on a pilgrimage to Mecca guess not.
Wow, I'm glad you quoted Vivekananda, greatest person world has ever produced.
 

Mani

Diamond Member
Aug 9, 2001
4,808
0
0
Originally posted by: Lemon law
I think much of it is a phony argument, there has been a historic struggle between Muslim and Hindu long before the British came to exploit the divisions.

If anything, its India itself that has a simmering conflict as Hindu and Muslims have been at each other throats for better than a Thousand years. And it was only India itself and its mix of religions that blunted the Eastward land based spread of Islam, and after Islam failed to jump the land based barrier, it then went seaward in an end around, and now basically surround India's Hindu to the East and the West.

If nothing else, Pakistan is a largely Muslim Country, and if nothing else, have a valid argument that India's Western border really should be many hundreds of miles further East. And at the same time, even if Pakistan is one the largest population Countries on earth, as I recall at #5, they are still a pygmy when compared to India. And if anything much tension is driven by the Indian Hindu who often riot and butcher the Indian Muslims.
Wow...hell of a lot of misinformation here.
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,576
431
126
Originally posted by: Lemon law
I think much of it is a phony argument, there has been a historic struggle between Muslim and Hindu long before the British came to exploit the divisions.

If anything, its India itself that has a simmering conflict as Hindu and Muslims have been at each other throats for better than a Thousand years. And it was only India itself and its mix of religions that blunted the Eastward land based spread of Islam, and after Islam failed to jump the land based barrier, it then went seaward in an end around, and now basically surround India's Hindu to the East and the West.

If nothing else, Pakistan is a largely Muslim Country, and if nothing else, have a valid argument that India's Western border really should be many hundreds of miles further East. And at the same time, even if Pakistan is one the largest population Countries on earth, as I recall at #5, they are still a pygmy when compared to India. And if anything much tension is driven by the Indian Hindu who often riot and butcher the Indian Muslims.
The expert on the Indian subcontinent has spoken, this thread is over! :disgust:
 

The Green Bean

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2003
6,506
7
81
If anyone doubts the mistreatment of muslims in India he is living in ignorance. Muslims are treated as 2nd class citizens even today. Look at the Gujarat massacre; government officials have admitted to killing muslims. Even with whats happening in Pakistan I'm glad I'm not living in India. I visit India thrice a year and have family there and so I'm not speaking out of ignorance.
 

Whitecloak

Diamond Member
May 4, 2001
6,074
2
0
Originally posted by: The Green Bean
If anyone doubts the mistreatment of muslims in India he is living in ignorance. Muslims are treated as 2nd class citizens even today. Look at the Gujarat massacre; government officials have admitted to killing muslims. Even with whats happening in Pakistan I'm glad I'm not living in India. I visit India thrice a year and have family there and so I'm not speaking out of ignorance.
hahahahaha
 

crisscross

Golden Member
Apr 29, 2001
1,598
0
71
Originally posted by: The Green Bean
If anyone doubts the mistreatment of muslims in India he is living in ignorance. Muslims are treated as 2nd class citizens even today. Look at the Gujarat massacre; government officials have admitted to killing muslims. Even with whats happening in Pakistan I'm glad I'm not living in India. I visit India thrice a year and have family there and so I'm not speaking out of ignorance.
What was that about glass houses again?
 

tvarad

Golden Member
Jun 25, 2001
1,130
0
0
Originally posted by: The Green Bean
If anyone doubts the mistreatment of muslims in India he is living in ignorance. Muslims are treated as 2nd class citizens even today. Look at the Gujarat massacre; government officials have admitted to killing muslims. Even with whats happening in Pakistan I'm glad I'm not living in India. I visit India thrice a year and have family there and so I'm not speaking out of ignorance.
I am sure the rest of the world is falling over itself to emigrate to Pakistan after your observation.
 

GroundedSailor

Platinum Member
Feb 18, 2001
2,502
0
76
Originally posted by: The Green Bean
If anyone doubts the mistreatment of muslims in India he is living in ignorance. Muslims are treated as 2nd class citizens even today. Look at the Gujarat massacre; government officials have admitted to killing muslims. Even with whats happening in Pakistan I'm glad I'm not living in India. I visit India thrice a year and have family there and so I'm not speaking out of ignorance.
Wow! talk about wearing rose colored glasses.


 

crisscross

Golden Member
Apr 29, 2001
1,598
0
71
Originally posted by: The Green Bean
If anyone doubts the mistreatment of muslims in India he is living in ignorance. Muslims are treated as 2nd class citizens even today. Look at the Gujarat massacre; government officials have admitted to killing muslims. Even with whats happening in Pakistan I'm glad I'm not living in India. I visit India thrice a year and have family there and so I'm not speaking out of ignorance.
Yeah.. Burn 50 Hindus alive in a train without any provocation and expect that there will be no repercussions.
 

The Green Bean

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2003
6,506
7
81
Originally posted by: crisscross
Originally posted by: The Green Bean
If anyone doubts the mistreatment of muslims in India he is living in ignorance. Muslims are treated as 2nd class citizens even today. Look at the Gujarat massacre; government officials have admitted to killing muslims. Even with whats happening in Pakistan I'm glad I'm not living in India. I visit India thrice a year and have family there and so I'm not speaking out of ignorance.
Yeah.. Burn 50 Hindus alive in a train without any provocation and expect that there will be no repercussions.
Typical. One person does something and the whole community has to suffer. The so called "open-minded" society of today isn't so open-minded anymore.
 

The Green Bean

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2003
6,506
7
81
Originally posted by: GroundedSailor
Originally posted by: The Green Bean
If anyone doubts the mistreatment of muslims in India he is living in ignorance. Muslims are treated as 2nd class citizens even today. Look at the Gujarat massacre; government officials have admitted to killing muslims. Even with whats happening in Pakistan I'm glad I'm not living in India. I visit India thrice a year and have family there and so I'm not speaking out of ignorance.
Wow! talk about wearing rose colored glasses.
Have you ever been to Pakistan or India? Or do you watch through the colored glasses of your biased media?
 

The Green Bean

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2003
6,506
7
81
Originally posted by: tvarad
Originally posted by: The Green Bean
If anyone doubts the mistreatment of muslims in India he is living in ignorance. Muslims are treated as 2nd class citizens even today. Look at the Gujarat massacre; government officials have admitted to killing muslims. Even with whats happening in Pakistan I'm glad I'm not living in India. I visit India thrice a year and have family there and so I'm not speaking out of ignorance.
I am sure the rest of the world is falling over itself to emigrate to Pakistan after your observation.
People immigrate to a country. The emigrate from one. Maybe you should learn some English before trying to act smart.
 

The Green Bean

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2003
6,506
7
81
Originally posted by: crisscross
Originally posted by: The Green Bean
If anyone doubts the mistreatment of muslims in India he is living in ignorance. Muslims are treated as 2nd class citizens even today. Look at the Gujarat massacre; government officials have admitted to killing muslims. Even with whats happening in Pakistan I'm glad I'm not living in India. I visit India thrice a year and have family there and so I'm not speaking out of ignorance.
What was that about glass houses again?
It's all about perception. Glass houses are stronger than those made of straw.
 

The Green Bean

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2003
6,506
7
81
Originally posted by: Whitecloak
Originally posted by: The Green Bean
If anyone doubts the mistreatment of muslims in India he is living in ignorance. Muslims are treated as 2nd class citizens even today. Look at the Gujarat massacre; government officials have admitted to killing muslims. Even with whats happening in Pakistan I'm glad I'm not living in India. I visit India thrice a year and have family there and so I'm not speaking out of ignorance.
hahahahaha
A laugh from ignorance or from envy?
 

tvarad

Golden Member
Jun 25, 2001
1,130
0
0
Originally posted by: The Green Bean
Originally posted by: crisscross
Originally posted by: The Green Bean
If anyone doubts the mistreatment of muslims in India he is living in ignorance. Muslims are treated as 2nd class citizens even today. Look at the Gujarat massacre; government officials have admitted to killing muslims. Even with whats happening in Pakistan I'm glad I'm not living in India. I visit India thrice a year and have family there and so I'm not speaking out of ignorance.
What was that about glass houses again?
It's all about perception. Glass houses are stronger than those made of straw.
I'm sure there are plenty of Indians who would gladly pay the fare to have your family in India to join you in the paradise you have created there for all the suppressed Muslims of the sub-continent.
 

Whitecloak

Diamond Member
May 4, 2001
6,074
2
0
Originally posted by: The Green Bean
Originally posted by: Whitecloak
Originally posted by: The Green Bean
If anyone doubts the mistreatment of muslims in India he is living in ignorance. Muslims are treated as 2nd class citizens even today. Look at the Gujarat massacre; government officials have admitted to killing muslims. Even with whats happening in Pakistan I'm glad I'm not living in India. I visit India thrice a year and have family there and so I'm not speaking out of ignorance.
hahahahaha
A laugh from ignorance or from envy?
you really are clueless.
 

crisscross

Golden Member
Apr 29, 2001
1,598
0
71
Originally posted by: tvarad
Originally posted by: The Green Bean
Originally posted by: crisscross
Originally posted by: The Green Bean
If anyone doubts the mistreatment of muslims in India he is living in ignorance. Muslims are treated as 2nd class citizens even today. Look at the Gujarat massacre; government officials have admitted to killing muslims. Even with whats happening in Pakistan I'm glad I'm not living in India. I visit India thrice a year and have family there and so I'm not speaking out of ignorance.
What was that about glass houses again?
It's all about perception. Glass houses are stronger than those made of straw.
I'm sure there are plenty of Indians who would gladly pay the fare to have your family in India to join you in the paradise you have created there for all the suppressed Muslims of the sub-continent.
Naa man.. they would take our money and just sneak back in with the terrorists when they see what a shithole Pakistan is ;)
 

tvarad

Golden Member
Jun 25, 2001
1,130
0
0
The state of minorities in Pakistan today:

http://in.news.yahoo.com/43/20...ikhs-forced-to-fl.html

New Delhi, April 24 (IANS) The minorities in Pakistan's Swat Valley have been forced to flee as the Taliban have imposed a tax on non-Muslims, Pakistan Catholic Bishops' Conference (PCBC) president Archbishop Lawrence John Saldanha has said, urging the Pakistani president and prime minister to intervene.

Expressing concern over the government's move to allow the imposition of Sharia laws in parts of the North West Frontier Province, the archbishop said in his letter to the Pakistani leaders: 'We note with sorrow that your government has failed to take stock of the concerns of civil society in Pakistan in your decision.

'Christian, Hindu and Sikh families have been forced to flee because the Taliban imposed on them Jizia, a tax levied on non-Muslims living under Islamic rule,' he said.

The archbishop's letter was released here by the Catholic Bishops' Conference of India (CBCI).

After parliament had approved the measure, Pakistan President Asif Ali Zardari April 13 signed the notification for enforcing Sharia laws in Swat and six other districts of the NWFP that are collectively known as the Malakand division.

'Besides jeopardising the socio-economic and cultural growth in Swat and Malakand, the decision has also given legal sanction to the diktats of the trigger-happy Taliban,' the archbishop's letter said.

The resolution 'erodes constitutional protections for minorities and women,' Saldanha, who is the archbishop of Lahore, said in the letter.

'Now minority communities in the province are forced to endure unemployment, intimidation and migration,' the letter noted.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Can you imagine what would happen if India imposed a tax on muslims?
 

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