Was NOM representative Jennifer Morse inappropriate?

[zsdersw]

... in using Tyler Clementi's name.

http://www.advocate.com/society/2013/03/04/tyler-clementis-family-wants-apology-nom

A representative of the antigay National Organization for Marriage invoked the name of Tyler Clementi, a New Jersey college student who committed suicide after being outed by his roommate, and the young man's family is furious.

NOM's Jennifer Morse was speaking at Iowa State University a few weeks ago and implied that Clementi ended his life because he had to much access to other LGBT people.

"There are a lot of situations where people are doing something sexual that's probably not the best thing for them," he said. Morse used Clementi as an emample of LGBT youth who she claimed are, "...getting help and support from the gay activists who have their own thing that they're doing which is not necessarily to help the individuals but they've got some sort of political vision."

Clementi's parents, joined by GLAAD, HRC, and Equality Matters, are furious and demanding an apology.

"To exploit our late son's name to advance an anti-equality agenda is offensive and wrong," Joe and Jane Clementi wrote in a statement. "By doing so, [NOM] proves that not only is there no low they will not sink to to advance their cruel agenda, but that neither they nor Ms. Morse have any grip on reality. The very idea that Tyler's tragedy happened because of too much support, instead of not enough, is ludicrous. Shame on them."

I'd say it's definitely in extremely poor taste for Morse to use his name like that, but I have such low expectations from NOM that I'm not at all shocked that they did.

 

[Genx87]

I'd guess Jennifer Morse sleeps with women given her fanatical view on gays.

 

[PokerGuy]

I don't see anything wrong with it. Maybe Morse is right, maybe she's not, but there's nothing wrong with bringing up the name of someone who's been in the news for a story related to the discussion at hand.

 

[zsdersw]

I don't see anything wrong with it. Maybe Morse is right, maybe she's not, but there's nothing wrong with bringing up the name of someone who's been in the news for a story related to the discussion at hand.

Unless the discussion was about gay students coming out or being found out and the negative ramifications that sometimes follow, which is not typically what NOM gets involved in, Clementi was not related to the discussion.

 

[PokerGuy]

Unless the discussion was about gay students coming out or being found out and the negative ramifications that sometimes follow, which is not typically what NOM gets involved in, Clementi was not related to the discussion.

I have no idea what the discussion was about. The article mentions Morse saying something at ISU and bringing up Clementi's name. Why would you assume it wasn't relevant to the discussion?

 

[zsdersw]

I have no idea what the discussion was about. The article mentions Morse saying something at ISU and bringing up Clementi's name. Why would you assume it wasn't relevant to the discussion?

See the "... which is not typically what NOM gets involved in ..." part of my reply.

 

[PokerGuy]

See the "... which is not typically what NOM gets involved in ..." part of my reply.

Ok, I get that, but what was the discussion about then? I don't know what NOM "typically" gets involved in discussing, but it's probably reasonable to assume that if they brought up his name it's because his situation has some sort of perceived relevance to the discussion. Just because his family or other groups don't like NOM's viewpoint(s) doesn't mean it's not appropriate for them to bring up Clementi's name in the discussion.

 

[zsdersw]

Ok, I get that, but what was the discussion about then? I don't know what NOM "typically" gets involved in discussing, but it's probably reasonable to assume that if they brought up his name it's because his situation has some sort of perceived relevance to the discussion. Just because his family or other groups don't like NOM's viewpoint(s) doesn't mean it's not appropriate for them to bring up Clementi's name in the discussion.

Yes you do... they argue against gay marriage and civil unions.

 

[waggy]

I think NOM was useing him to score points. though they should not have since it really does not help their cause.

 

[PokerGuy]

Yes you do... they argue against gay marriage and civil unions.

Uh, no, to my knowledge I've never heard of this group before this thread.

Regardless, if the discussion centered around gay marriage/issues, why would it be inappropriate to bring up the name of a gay student who committed suicide who's name was all over the news? I can think of many ways that his name could have been relevant in the discussion.

Sounds to me they're just upset that a group they disagree with chose to bring up his name, as if only groups that they agree with can bring up his name / example.

 

[nehalem256]

How is this any different than the time liberals wanted to use the woman who died in Ireland in childbirth as a reason for making abortion legal?

Or is it only liberals who are allowed to use dead people to further their causes?

 

[zsdersw]

Uh, no, to my knowledge I've never heard of this group before this thread.

I wouldn't initially think you were so uninformed... particularly about groups that advocate positions you support.

Regardless, if the discussion centered around gay marriage/issues, why would it be inappropriate to bring up the name of a gay student who committed suicide who's name was all over the news? I can think of many ways that his name could have been relevant in the discussion.

Sounds to me they're just upset that a group they disagree with chose to bring up his name, as if only groups that they agree with can bring up his name / example.

Gay marriage has nothing to do with gay students committing suicide.

 

[zsdersw]

How is this any different than the time liberals wanted to use the woman who died in Ireland in childbirth as a reason for making abortion legal?

Not having made the claim that it is different, I wouldn't know.

Or is it only liberals who are allowed to use dead people to further their causes?

I know, it's only conservatives who should be allowed to do that.

 

[PokerGuy]

I wouldn't initially think you were so uninformed... particularly about groups that advocate positions you support.

I have no idea if they advocate positions I support. Unless it's a large group with a lot of exposure, it's more likely that I don't know much about them or what they advocate.

Gay marriage has nothing to do with gay students committing suicide.

I don't know what the details of the discussion were, but it wouldn't take much of a stretch to think that the topics could easily have included things where his publicity / example were relevant. The article is very light on details, just seems like they are mad that a group they disagree with had the audacity to use someone's name. Issue not found.

 

[zsdersw]

I have no idea if they advocate positions I support. Unless it's a large group with a lot of exposure, it's more likely that I don't know much about them or what they advocate.

NOM receives a lot of exposure, and has been mentioned in numerous threads on P&N.

I don't know what the details of the discussion were, but it wouldn't take much of a stretch to think that the topics could easily have included things where his publicity / example were relevant. The article is very light on details, just seems like they are mad that a group they disagree with had the audacity to use someone's name. Issue not found.

His example is not at all related to gay marriage.

 

[PokerGuy]

NOM receives a lot of exposure, and has been mentioned in numerous threads on P&N.

<shrug> Ok, I've never heard of them and have no idea about their positions. Based on their name alone I'd imagine they are focused on protecting the institution of marriage, but I don't know anything about the group.

His example is not at all related to gay marriage.

So? We don't know what was being discussed, and the linked article definitely doesn't provide much detail. The article seems focused on anger over a group they call "anti-gay" bringing up his name to support some point or argument. They "demand" an apology, and I'm guessing NOM will tell them to pound sand.

 

[zsdersw]

So? We don't know what was being discussed, and the linked article definitely doesn't provide much detail. The article seems focused on anger over a group they call "anti-gay" bringing up his name to support some point or argument. They "demand" an apology, and I'm guessing NOM will tell them to pound sand.

You said it was appropriate to use his name because you assumed it was related to the discussion. I pointed out that given NOM's objectives--marriage--it is not reasonable to assume Clementi was related.

 

[PokerGuy]

You said it was appropriate to use his name because you assumed it was related to the discussion. I pointed out that given NOM's objectives--marriage--it is not reasonable to assume Clementi was related.

You really think it's that much of a stretch to think that in a discussion about gay marriage there could also be discussion of other tangents like political activism, gay sexuality, culture issues and so forth?

I guess if you want to assume that nothing was being discussed that could possibly tie to anything related to Clementi, that's up to you, but if that's the case, why did the NOM spokesperson bring up his name at all? There had to be some connection no?

 

[zsdersw]

You really think it's that much of a stretch to think that in a discussion about gay marriage there could also be discussion of other tangents like political activism, gay sexuality, culture issues and so forth?

I guess if you want to assume that nothing was being discussed that could possibly tie to anything related to Clementi, that's up to you, but if that's the case, why did the NOM spokesperson bring up his name at all? There had to be some connection no?

Probably to score points in advancing their agenda.

 

[PokerGuy]

Probably to score points in advancing their agenda.

Ok, that makes sense, but you think they just threw in his name out of the blue? It must have been related to the discussion somehow.

Either way, using his name for an emotional connection or effect is not an issue as far as I'm concerned, the problem seems to revolve around just not liking the group NOM.

 

[zsdersw]

Ok, that makes sense, but you think they just threw in his name out of the blue? It must have been related to the discussion somehow.

No it need not have been related. Given what was said, it seems like they used Clementi to attack groups NOM opposes in the gay marriage battle, not address the issues related to him.

 

[cubby1223]

I wouldn't initially think you were so uninformed... particularly about groups that advocate positions you support.

You do recognize you are being a total ass right here, correct?

This topic may be a subject you are very emotionally invested in, but at some point you need to realize that is not the case for other people.

 

[zsdersw]

You do recognize you are being a total ass right here, correct?

This topic may be a subject you are very emotionally invested in, but at some point you need to realize that is not the case for other people.

NOM has been mentioned in many other threads in P&N; threads that PokerGuy has posted in.

And no, I'm not being a "total ass" here.

 

[cubby1223]

His example is not at all related to gay marriage.

I mean, you are basically saying, "This group primarily focuses on issues relating to gay marriage, therefore all other topics of discussion are not appropriate for them."

No, PokerGuy is correct, you are letting your personal hatred of this group cloud your rational thoughts.

If they were an anti-global warming group making reference to Tyler Clementi, you'd have a point. When you try to say a group that advocates a position directly relating to homosexuals, that the subject of someone who committed suicide in part from issues involving his sexuality - you are letting your emotions get in the way.

Just say you don't approve of this group using that example the way they did, and that is the end of it.

 

[zsdersw]

I mean, you are basically saying, "This group primarily focuses on issues relating to gay marriage, therefore all other topics of discussion are not appropriate for them."

No, PokerGuy is correct, you are letting your personal hatred of this group cloud your rational thoughts.

If they were an anti-global warming group making reference to Tyler Clementi, you'd have a point. When you try to say a group that advocates a position directly relating to homosexuals, that the subject of someone who committed suicide in part from issues involving his sexuality - you are letting your emotions get in the way.

No, PokerGuy is wrong. Morse used Clementi to criticize groups NOM opposes in the gay marriage battle, not speak to the issues surrounding his suicide.

Just say you don't approve of this group using that example the way they did, and that is the end of it.

No, I will make whatever comments I want.. and I don't really care if you have a problem with it.