Was Bruce Lee the greatest fighter of all time?

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Danman

Lifer
Nov 9, 1999
13,134
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<< Bruce Lee was NOT the greatest fighter of all time. Coke was and still is! >>



YES!!!!!!!!!!! :D
 

Aquaman

Lifer
Dec 17, 1999
25,054
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you have to remember .......... if Bruce Lee was to fight in the UFC type event he would probably train with ground fighting in mind or not show up at all.......... once you hit the mat it's a different game.

Cheers,
Aquaman
 

soccerbud34

Senior member
Nov 15, 2001
747
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Gawd DANG IT!!! i get discovery and history channel here @ the dorm .... but no TLC :(
I have always been into martial arts since i am an avid kung fu novel reader myself:D

Can someone kindly encode that episode when it comes on again?
That would be totally awesome!

next showing is april 13th 5:00 pm ET on TLC

 

Polgara

Banned
Feb 1, 2002
127
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On Letterman a while back Chuck Norris said that when he was world champion he could beat Bruce Lee. They worked out together.

He said that at that time he felt he could beat anybody on the world.

Sarah
 

soccerbud34

Senior member
Nov 15, 2001
747
0
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<< On Letterman a while back Chuck Norris said that when he was world champion he could beat Bruce Lee. They worked out together.

He said that at that time he felt he could beat anybody on the world.

Sarah
>>



so he think he could eh?

tell that to the monks @ shaolin temple ;) hehe
 

tigerwannabe

Golden Member
Apr 11, 2001
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I really can't comment on whether he was average,above average or below or what not and I'm not trying to throw you a curve ball or anything....But just out of curiosity,what would you or your friends(that knew Mr. lee) rate as your level as a martial artist?

i'm very much a beginner

 

UThomas

Senior member
Apr 18, 2000
251
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There are hundreds of guys alive today that would have beat Bruce Lee in his prime. Very athletic and pretty skilled, but the guy was like 135 lbs. Hell, I'd give him a run for his money.

Thomas
 

CrazyDe1

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
3,089
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doens't matter how big he was...its not about size...you ever seen a woman beat the crap out of someone that was 6'4" 250? I have...theres many other martial arts out there that take advantage of internal energy wehre strength doesn't matter..pakua, tai chi, hsing i to name a few...the concept behind tae kwon do is block then hit...shaolin is block and striek at the same time w/ both hands...pakua is redirect their punch w/ teh block and striek at the same time w/ 1 arm...they also teach grappling and feeling based on reaction...doesn't matter how big a guy is if all his energy is redirected...
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
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<< doens't matter how big he was...its not about size...you ever seen a woman beat the crap out of someone that was 6'4" 250? I have...theres many other martial arts out there that take advantage of internal energy wehre strength doesn't matter..pakua, tai chi, hsing i to name a few...the concept behind tae kwon do is block then hit...shaolin is block and striek at the same time w/ both hands...pakua is redirect their punch w/ teh block and striek at the same time w/ 1 arm...they also teach grappling and feeling based on reaction...doesn't matter how big a guy is if all his energy is redirected... >>

That's all fine and good but I'll put money on the guy who has both skill and size. You can't pretend that size doesn't matter because it does - and the two are not mutually exclusive. And no I've never seen a woman beat up a guy who was 6,4 and 250 :) ANYBODY can get a lucky shot on a person. I could probably beat up bruce lee if he wasn't expecting it and I got a lucky hit on him knocking him out because he was talking to me about chicks and I suddenly decked him.
 

CrazyDe1

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
3,089
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Usually those who have the size arent as skilled...and in this case the woman was surprised...the guy tried to rob her in an empty parking lot...broke his nose and a few bones in his foot....this isn't a large or manly woman either...shes like 5'4" and 120
 

UThomas

Senior member
Apr 18, 2000
251
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"pakua, tai chi, hsing i"

Maybe you've missed the last 10 years of mixed martial arts competition, but all these internal styles suck in actual aplication. Might be a fun hobby, might get you in shape, might help against an unskilled individual, but you're in la la land if you think one of these is going to help you beat a skilled martial artist in a "legitimate" style.

Bruce Lee was a pioneer in mixed martial arts, but the sport is beyond him now and if he were to take his skills out there now he would be average.

Thomas
 

Kev

Lifer
Dec 17, 2001
16,367
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<< You can look at bruce lee - he didn't have much muscle on him. >>



wha? he was nothing but muscle. did you ever see him flex? it's ridiculous.

but i do agree that size does matter. bruce lee took kareem abdul jabbar as a student, and had trouble defeating him in sparring matches because kareem was just too big. he was nowhere near as skilled as bruce, but the size definitely matters.
 

CrazyDe1

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
3,089
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The thing about internal martial arts is that as a beginner you're better off using taekwondo becuase it takes so much longer to get good at it. The true masters of these internal arts aren't sitting there competing in your ultimate fighting championships...these are guys that you see with their own little schools that are trying to make some money...the truly skilled internal martial artists aren't competing in these
 

Kenazo

Lifer
Sep 15, 2000
10,429
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a college buddy of mine's father was the south african champion of something or the other... he got to fight lee, he even has pics. that was too cool, even though he got his ass handed to him.
 

UThomas

Senior member
Apr 18, 2000
251
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"The true masters of these internal arts aren't sitting there competing in your ultimate fighting championships...these are guys that you see with their own little schools that are trying to make some money...the truly skilled internal martial artists aren't competing in these"

Thats baloney, or maybe wishful thinking. There is no evidence of this at all.

Thomas
 

Ne0

Golden Member
Nov 4, 1999
1,226
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With extra size and strength, you can lose speed.

<< Bruce was also very much against high impact training such as the heavy bag kicking because he understood that the result from the high impact would only develop bulk muscles and they would slow down the practitioner's speed... But Bruce found a way ... power without losing speed. >>

It's like Bruce's Teacher Yipman:

<< Standing only five feet tall and weighing 120 pounds, Yip Man proceeded to throw the six-foot, 200 pound Bak Mei master around the room. No matter how Leung Sheung attacked, he always found himself carefully deposited on the floor. >>

 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
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<< The thing about internal martial arts is that as a beginner you're better off using taekwondo becuase it takes so much longer to get good at it. The true masters of these internal arts aren't sitting there competing in your ultimate fighting championships...these are guys that you see with their own little schools that are trying to make some money...the truly skilled internal martial artists aren't competing in these >>

How are they definied as top of the line if they aren't putting their money where their mouth is?
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
3
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In regards to size vs. speed why don't you put the world's top heavy weight boxer against the world's top welter weight and we'll see who wins :)
 

Ne0

Golden Member
Nov 4, 1999
1,226
13
81


<< In regards to size vs. speed why don't you put the world's top heavy weight boxer against the world's top welter weight and we'll see who wins :) >>



Boxing? We're talking about fighting(not boxing), we should stick to fighting. :) A good example of a heavy weight losing to welter weight example is shown in my original post.

<< Standing only five feet tall and weighing 120 pounds, Yip Man proceeded to throw the six-foot, 200 pound Bak Mei master around the room. No matter how Leung Sheung attacked, he always found himself carefully deposited on the floor. >>

;)

It's like UFC. Tank Abbott is a big guy with lots of power, but his arse got handed to him by the much weaker but faster Maurice Smith. All Maurice did, was stay away from his power and give him devestating kicks to the knees which brought the big guy down fast.
 

Kev

Lifer
Dec 17, 2001
16,367
4
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<< In regards to size vs. speed why don't you put the world's top heavy weight boxer against the world's top welter weight and we'll see who wins :) >>

yeah but boxing is a power sport, different than martial arts. if bruce lee were to ever go up against the likes of mike tyson, george forman or ali i have no doubt lee would tear them a new asshole.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
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Boxers and martial artists are become silly puddy when faced with a great greco roman wrestler.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
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<<

<< In regards to size vs. speed why don't you put the world's top heavy weight boxer against the world's top welter weight and we'll see who wins :) >>



Boxing? We're talking about fighting(not boxing), we should stick to fighting. :) A good example of a heavy weight losing to welter weight example is shown in my original post.

<< Standing only five feet tall and weighing 120 pounds, Yip Man proceeded to throw the six-foot, 200 pound Bak Mei master around the room. No matter how Leung Sheung attacked, he always found himself carefully deposited on the floor. >>

;)

It's like UFC. Tank Abbott is a big guy with lots of power, but his arse got handed to him by the much weaker but faster Maurice Smith. All Maurice did, was stay away from his power and give him devestating kicks to the knees which brought the big guy down fast.
>>

Yes but tank abbot is a fat bastard who admittedly spends more time drinking and partying than working out. This guy is not who I'm talking about. Abbot runs out of energy about 20 seconds into the match carrying around his fat ass. Ken shamrock is a better example or that big greco roman wrestler in some of the earlier UFC matches.
 

soccerbud34

Senior member
Nov 15, 2001
747
0
0


<< In regards to size vs. speed why don't you put the world's top heavy weight boxer against the world's top welter weight and we'll see who wins :) >>




there are many styles of martial arts that stresses the use the strength of the opponent against that opponent
the one example that comes off the top of my mind is aikido or maybe it another style, i dont know its name in english hehe ....
my grandfather was a black belt in that :)

also there is a chinese famous proverb that states "use 4 ounces to move thousand pounds" or something to that effect ...

i believe if a person is a martial artist who knows what he or she is doing, it does not matter whether his or her opponent is 150 lbs or 250lbs ...

edit *found it ... it is aikido *
 

Ne0

Golden Member
Nov 4, 1999
1,226
13
81


<< Boxers and martial artists are become silly puddy when faced with a great greco roman wrestler. >>



Well why don't you find a great Greco Roman Wrestler to join UFC and fight the likes of Alex Rijos, Royce Gracie, and Igor Vovchanchyn(the Russian Concussion). :)
 

monotony

Senior member
Nov 18, 2000
201
0
0
I have been a martial artist for many years and, not that it makes my opinion anymore fact that anyone elses, but I have trained with a few of the people some of you are talking about. As far as Bruce Lee, I agree with the majority in that he wouldn't be able to handle some of the MMA fighters that are out there today. But Bruce wasn't famous because he was necessarily the best fighter, he was famous for revolutionizing the way many people thought about martial arts. He didn't worry about tradition, and he developed what he thought was the most efficient fighting technique. His strength was not exaggerated though.



<< Jesse Glover - "Bruce would take hold of a 70lb dumbbell with one arm and raise it to a lateral position, level to his shoulder and then he'd hold the contraction for a few seconds. Nobody else I knew could even get it up there, let it alone hold it up there". >>



You can find many, many quotes like these from former students/training partners. He could measure up pound for pound with anyone.

As far as Steven Seagul, he is/was the real deal. Although I don't know much about what he is doing nowadays, I had an opportunity to learn from him one afternoon as he was a guest in our Dojo. He was very generous and seemed extremely genuine as well. The fact that he reached 7th Dan in Aikido in Japan, and opened a school there, pretty much speaks for itself. A Westerner able to do that, and prosper, must be quite good at what he does. Most of the complaints I've heard of him regarding his movies, are that he can be a little reckless when it comes to his co-actor's safety. Although I myself would have a hard time believing it because I've worked with him, it's fairly hard to fake some of the more painful moves. In anycase, just my $0.02 =)

-monotony-
 

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