Was anyone else confused by Joe the Plumber?

[Dr. Zaus]

I know Joe has no license, the question isn?t about the individual, it?s about the meaning behind the man. When I first heard the whole 'back and forth' with Joe I was confused as to why Rush was running an Obama commercial.

Before joe I thought ?higher taxes are always bad in a faltering economy? but after listening to Obama?s explanation about helping others get to the point Joe has? well I had to admit that it sounded very reasonable.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I can't vote, as neither option reflects my view. You should add a choice for "other" explain in thread.

From my perspective, he is simply the plant, that the snake oil salesman places in the crowd, to help peddle his wares.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
I can't vote, as neither option reflects my view. You should add a choice for "other" explain in thread.

From my perspective, he is simply the plant, that the snake oil salesman places in the crowd, to help peddle his wares.

that IS who the man is, but the question is more about what the man represents?

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Thanks for the option to vote. :beer:

BTW, I should have added, he is a classic plant, nothing more, nothing less, because I've seen fear mongering and ignorance from both sides, the reps do not have a monopoly on it.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
Thanks for the option to vote. :beer:

BTW, I should have added, he is a classic plant, nothing more, nothing less, because I've seen fear mongering and ignorance from both sides, the reps do not have a monopoly on it.

very true.

 

[StageLeft]

Guy makes 40k/year is behind on his taxes and concerned about 250k PROFIT on a business that he doesn't even have a license in? I chose the second voting option.

 

[jonks]

"Why the hell is this guy being vetted? He's now given more interviews than Sarah Palin!" - Jon Stewart

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Guy makes 40k/year is behind on his taxes and concerned about 250k PROFIT on a business that he doesn't even have a license in? I chose the second voting option.

This.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Guy makes 40k/year is behind on his taxes and concerned about 250k PROFIT on a business that he doesn't even have a license in? I chose the second voting option.

I agree. McCain tried to use this guy as an average small business owner, hard working, regular guy to make his point that Obama would raise his taxes. Joe's dream is to be in the income bracket where Obama would raise his taxes. Hell, I bet everyone nearly everyone here would like to be in the position (i.e. high enough income) to be considered by Obama to have their taxes raised. Trying to equate the average "Joe" on the street as one of the 5% "hurt" by a tax increase.

 

[techs]

Yeah, I posted a thread with Joe the Plumbers wiki page so we could all see what the truth was. I asked it be pinned. It answers most of the issues in dispute. No one seemed to care and there were no responses:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_the_plumber

So much has been said, corrected, said again, that I just wanted to post something we can ALL refer to about Joe the Plumber.

From wiki:

Plumbing career and licensing issues

An Associated Press article revealed that Wurzelbacher does not have a plumber's license or apprenticeship.[16] He claimed[citation needed] he does not need a license because he works for someone else. Lucas County, where Wurzelbacher and his employer reside, requires plumbers who perform work including sanitary drainage, water supply, storm drainage, and natural gas piping, to have licenses.[17] Although Wurzelbacher does not hold a plumbers license himself, his employer does hold licenses with the State of Ohio and City of Toledo, but not with Lucas County.[1][15] Local 50 of the United Association of Plumbers, Steamfitters and Service Mechanics, whose membership endorsed Obama, indicated that Wurzelbacher applied for an apprentice program in 2003 but never completed the work.[18]

Wurzelbacher is one of two employees of a small plumbing firm, Newell Plumbing and Heating Co. of Toledo.[6] This is the company he described to Obama as making more than $250,000 per year;[15] however, according to Bloomberg News, even if Wurzelbacher bought the company making the earnings he believed, by the time he took proper business deductions he'd be left with between $150,000 and $200,000 in taxable income and wouldn't be affected by Obama's proposed increase in the top rates.[19] MSNBC reported that "Ohio business records show the company?s estimated total annual revenue as only $100,000. Actual taxable income would be even less than that."[20] Wurzelbacher reported that the idea of buying the company was discussed during his job interview six years prior.[1]

In his interview on ABC's Good Morning America on October 16, Wurzelbacher stated that his two current plumbing jobs were for a gas station and for a shopping center, Levis Commons.[12]

 

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Guy makes 40k/year is behind on his taxes and concerned about 250k PROFIT on a business that he doesn't even have a license in? I chose the second voting option.

Who is he SUPPOSED to represent? Tax scofflaws? Tax evaders? Those who think that taxes are for the OTHER GUY to pay?

Lemmee see...he's a scab plumber who never finished his apprenticeship and who works (possibly illegally) without a state plumbing license...he's behind on his taxes and has had a lein placed on his property for non-payment of those taxes...he bitches about having to pay more taxes on a business he doesn't own. will probably never be able to buy, couldn't legally operate if he did buy it (unless he hires only licensed plumbers to do his work) and the business doesn't make enough net income for the possible tax increase to affect him in the first place...

Sounds like he represents the typical uneducated right-wing hick...who just parrots what he's told to...

 

[dbk]

Another blunder by the McCain campaign...

 

[freegeeks]

Originally posted by: BoomerD

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Guy makes 40k/year is behind on his taxes and concerned about 250k PROFIT on a business that he doesn't even have a license in? I chose the second voting option.

Who is he SUPPOSED to represent? Tax scofflaws? Tax evaders? Those who think that taxes are for the OTHER GUY to pay?

Lemmee see...he's a scab plumber who never finished his apprenticeship and who works (possibly illegally) without a state plumbing license...he's behind on his taxes and has had a lein placed on his property for non-payment of those taxes...he bitches about having to pay more taxes on a business he doesn't own. will probably never be able to buy, couldn't legally operate if he did buy it (unless he hires only licensed plumbers to do his work) and the business doesn't make enough net income for the possible tax increase to affect him in the first place...

Sounds like he represents the typical uneducated right-wing hick...who just parrots what he's told to...

I think Joe got OWNED!!!!!!

:thumbsup:

 

[Moonbeam]

But if Joe the Plumber were actually a plumber and if the plumbing business he wanted to buy with money he doesn't have were actually earning profits over 250 thousand a year, his share of tax would then go up a bit on the theory that taxes that build infrastructure that makes business possible at all needs to be paid for by somebody who has some income to tax and that tax should reflect just a bit the notion that those who do the best via the infrastructure and culture we have built should pay more for it than those struggling just to feed their families and survive and get their kids in a better place. It's just like it's always been where the strong go out and do the dangerous hunting and the weaker gather fire wood and water the garden. Those who can do get to dance closer to the fire.

 

[techs]

Joe the Plumbers future is secure. He will get an hour long show on FoxNews after the election if McCain loses.
And if McCain wins I am guessing either Secretary of Labor or the Supreme Court.

 

[Wheezer]

Just because he is not licensed does not mean he is not a plumber.

Rules according to the state of Ohio:

LICENSE QUALIFICATION PROCESS
The Ohio Construction Industry Licensing Board (O.C.I.L.B.), Department of Commerce, Division of Industrial Compliance, issues state commercial licenses to the following contractors: electrical, HVAC, hydronics, plumbing, and refrigeration. To receive a state license, an applicant must meet the following requirements: 1) be at least 18 years of age; 2) be a United States citizen or a legal alien-must provide proof of being a legal alien; 3) either have been a tradesperson in the type of licensed trade for which the application is filed for not less than five years immediately prior to the date the application is filed, currently be a registered engineer in this state with three years of business experience in the construction industry in the trade for which the engineer is applying to take the examination, or have other experience acceptable to the appropriate section of the board; 4) not have been convicted of or plead guilty to a misdemeanor involving moral turpitude or of any felony; 5) pass the examination in the trade; 6) carry minimum $500,000 contractor liability coverage; 7) pay the applicable fees.

Note that to be licensed you must have experience......it says nothing about being required to be licensed to be a plumber.

Just because does not make anywhere close to $250,000 he should not care about the taxes on that amount?

by that rational why the hell should I care about someone starving in Africa, or some junkie that played with a dirty needle and now has AIDS? why give a fuck about anything that has nothing to do with me?

Obama is the one touting his tax policies and how great they are.....why shouldn't someone call him out on it and have him back up what he says in front of the cameras and in his ads?

Its not about the money....it's about the hard work that goes into building a business only to be told that your hard work is not going to benefit you, but someone else who had nothing to do with it.

 

[FirewolfX]

Joe = fraud

 

[Farang]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Guy makes 40k/year is behind on his taxes and concerned about 250k PROFIT on a business that he doesn't even have a license in? I chose the second voting option.

This.

That.

 

[mizzou]

"I won't vote for Obama because he will raise my taxes, and I won't stand for that"

"He won't raise your taxes, actually, McCain will effectively make you pay more"

"Zero??............*blink blink blink blink blink blink*

 

[Craig234]

Joe represents to me many of the problems with the right-wing followers.

He doesn't understand the tax policies, he's chosen to follow the bad policies, and he chose to lie to try to make his political point, all the while he'd be better off with Obama's policies both under his invented scenario and his actual situation. Ignorance, dishonesty, partisanship, he indeed is a good pick for a McCain campain representative.

He makes less than implied, he's not close to buying the business he said, he has worked there half the time he said, he idiotically calls Obama's policy socialism (then why wasn't the reverse policy to cut taxes for the rich socialism for them?), and he'd get a bigger tax cut under Obama whether lower paid, or over $250K with the business, while McCain would tax the health care payments for the workers (worth an average $12,000 nationally while his offer for a new benefit is only $5,000).

Joe is a great example of what's wrong with many of the right-wing voters, apparently poisoned by the right-wing propagandists.

 

[Ferocious]

It seems this particular Joe the Plumber might represent all those people who have failed in life and would rather not accept responsibility. Lousy job. No license to do the job on his own. Divorced.

Sometimes when people have a rough life....they have to find something or someone to blame. Because a lot of people don't like to be accountable for their actions and so conjur an ever increasing anger for something or someone else....whether it be the government, or the blacks, or the jews, or the dems....etc.

This Joe the Plumber strikes me more as an angry loser....rather then mainstream America.

 

[Viditor]

Originally posted by: Wheezer
Note that to be licensed you must have experience......it says nothing about being required to be licensed to be a plumber.

Just because does not make anywhere close to $250,000 he should not care about the taxes on that amount?

That's not what he was doing...he was representing that a "Joe Plumber" makes $250k/yr, when in fact only 1-2% of the small businessmen do so.

 

[LumbergTech]

Originally posted by: Ferocious

It seems this particular Joe the Plumber might represent all those people who have failed in life and would rather not accept responsibility. Lousy job. No license to do the job on his own. Divorced.

Sometimes when people have a rough life....they have to find something or someone to blame. Because a lot of people don't like to be accountable for their actions and so conjur an ever increasing anger for something or someone else....whether it be the government, or the blacks, or the jews, or the dems....etc.

This Joe the Plumber strikes me more as an angry loser....rather then mainstream America.

sounds a little harsh to me, i dont think everyone who makes less than 250k a year is a failure..it depends on what they value in life..