Originally posted by: MrDudeMan
Originally posted by: giantpinkbunnyhead
Originally posted by: MrDudeMan
i dont know the answer to the question, but i would guess probably not. however, you have to understand what you are asking. atheism is a religion, but those who practice it claim it is not. everyone has a worldview laced with their own presuppositions about life and its origins...no getting around that. not believing in a divine being is just as much faith as believing in a divine being because neither side has any clue who is right. it is actually almost amusing.
Atheism ISN'T a religion. I think you aren't understanding your own words. Atheism is by definition, a LACK of belief in a god or gods moreso than an active belief that there is no god. All an atheist is, is one who when given a hand of religious cards to pick from... simply declined to pick one at all. Atheism itself could never be a card in that hand because religion, also by definition, involves belief in a supernatural power with some capacity to control fate/destiny/etc. Atheism merely takes that whole concept and decides it's hogwash. In order to be a religion, a belief in a supernatural power would have to be present, and beleiving that there isn't one at all is about as far away from that requirement as you can get. THere are lots of things we take on faith, but it doesn't make them religious. I can't see my truck in the parking lot right now but I have faith that it's still there... is this religious? No. Having faith that there is no god is the same thing. Neither of these are having faith that some unseen power exists.
Originally posted by: MrDudeMan
comparing this to a truck in a parking lot proves you missed the point. fellas, i study theology on a regular basis and debate people of both sides. this isnt nearly as trivial as you make it seem. your presupposition that there is or isnt a divine being IS a religion as it pervades your every move and every thought. go ahead and think it isnt a religion, but it is. you believe there is no God. you claim it is common sense, but so does every other religious person based on their own belief. it never fails that every atheistic person believes their way is common sense, but they also fail to see the irony. this is an inescapable aspect of human nature - our capability to think and perceive a divine being leads to the inability to discover the true nature of prime reality. take it for what its worth, but im not just a shmuck here to push your buttons. i respect you right to not believe in God (i truly do), but claiming it is common sense is laughable. dont try to form an arguement based on everyday objects that prove the meaning of the existential relevance of the question "is there a God?". it just doesnt compute.
I'm sorry.... anyone on a forum can claim to be a theology expert... I'm not saying you're not, but I am not buying your explanations. I have not studied theology extensively but I do have a basic understanding of what religion is. Please explain to me how atheism meets the definition of religion. Please tell me what supernatural force atheists believe in. How can you say it's a religion with a straight face? Because it pervades my every move and thought? There's LOTS of things that also do that. Emotions and personality to name a few. Things that have nothing to do with a god or absence of a god. By your statement, are you implying that it's completely impossible for anyone to possibly not have a religion? Just because a certain set of rules or qualities govern a person's life, doesn't define said rules as a religion. While religion can certainly be a way of life, I feel that is a characteristic of religion, not a definition of it. Maybe this could be where we disagree. Do you define religion to be the governing force that drives the life of every person, whatever it happens to be? If so... then we only disagree on the definition of religion.
I raised the truck analogy because you said that not believing in a god is just as much faith as believing in a god. I agree with that. But I have the impression that you think believing there is no god, is indicative of a religion because it needs to be taken on faith. I am pointing out with the truck example, that the conclusion is faulty. Just taking something on faith isn't enough to make something qualify as a religion. This analogy was not put forth to settle any "is there a god" question as you implied. I very simply, am saying that taking something on faith does not mean it has any connection to any religion whatsoever.
Having faith that there is no god is the same thing.
really? its actually not. you have faith that there is no God. you have NO proof, just as a believer has no proof. [/quote]
I think you missed my point. If you would have quoted more than just the snippet above, you'd see that I said having faith there is no god is the same as me having faith that my truck is in the parking lot. I have no proof there isn't a god. I also have no proof my truck is in the parking lot. Yet I believe both. The difference is, I can walk to the lot and check if my truck is still there and find the answer. I cannot do this with my disbelief in a god. But currently... right now... both are matters of faith because there is no proof before me for either scenario. It is exactly the same thing.
you are defining religion as a nutcase bible thumper it seems. your belief system constitutes your personal religion. im not comparing you to a sheep that doesnt think about what they believe in. you clearly have thought it through, but that doesnt make it less than a religion. your common sense and ability to reason tell you what to think, but what influenced that and made it the way it is? your background and life experiences, or your set of presuppositions as i stated before. everything you have done or that has happened to yo uhas shaped your current state of mind. it gives you your own worldview that is truly unique to you. in that worldview, you see things differently than i can perceive, so dont miscontrue your truth as being absolute, because it is definitely not. claiming you know absolute truth is to be a naive realist and that defies logic in and of itself. again, i respect your opinion, but dont say i dont know what im talking about.
I'm not sure where all that came from. I don't recall ever spouting off about me being right. I never said I know the truth. But otherwise, you're right about the world experiences that occurrences that have shaped my outlook. I am very aware my experiences are unique, and that they shape my behavior. But again... I simply don't buy the correlation between life experiences and religion. You have failed to show me good, solid evidence for this. I maintain that whatever forces govern a person's life or explain their outlook is irrelevant to whether there is a god or not, and as such is not a religious matter.
And for the record I never claimed atheism to be common sense. Someone else did. I say this just in case you were directing the common sense remarks at me.
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