Warren v Sanders health care funding

[ivwshane]

So both senators back the same Medicare for all plan but how its funded is where they part ways.

Cnn has a piece talking about the differences.

What's everyone's take?

Sanders criticizes Warren's health care plan: 'I think we have a better way' | CNN Politics

Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders criticized his 2020 presidential rival Sen. Elizabeth Warren's funding plan for "Medicare For All," calling his plan "more progressive" and squaring up the two most progressive candidates in the race for the Democratic nomination to do what neither of them have wanted...

www-m.cnn.com

Bernie's plan implements a 7.5% payroll tax at a cost of 30 trillion over ten years while warren's plan would cost 20 trillion over ten years and paid for via a 9 trillion tax on employers or "Medicare contribution" or by increasing wages/benefits for employees.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Warren has been scrutinized because there is not a single economist (and majority being non-partisan or leaning left) believes that it would cost 20 trillion.

To put it simply, Warren's isn't realistic. She sincerely has zero clue what the she is talking about from an economical perspective.

If you want this stuff paid for - then you need to be like the countries that implemented it - hike up regressive taxes (VAT) and increase the payroll taxes so that the lower/middle classes pay up. You can't depend on the rich (and upper middle class) for everything... But hey, you can always try. You will fail miserably, but you can try.

 

[Indus]

You will fail miserably, but you can try.

Like they tried with Trumpcare? LOL

 

[ivwshane]

Warren has been scrutinized because there is not a single economist (and majority being non-partisan or leaning left) believes that it would cost 20 trillion.

To put it simply, Warren's isn't realistic. She sincerely has zero clue what the she is talking about from an economical perspective.

If you want this stuff paid for - then you need to be like the countries that implemented it - hike up regressive taxes (VAT) and increase the payroll taxes so that the lower/middle classes pay up. You can't depend on the rich (and upper middle class) for everything... But hey, you can always try. You will fail miserably, but you can try.

You clearly haven't read her plan.

Elizabeth Warren’s plan to pay for Medicare-for-all, explained

Warren shows how she would pay for it without raising middle class taxes.

www.vox.com

 

[dank69]

No time to read it now but I plan to at some point. Any plan like this has to have mechanisms to convert what we all pay for health insurance into what we all pay in taxes instead. Changing it to a payroll tax is only the first half. The other half would be forcing businesses to raise employee salaries by an equivalent amount as what they have traditionally paid for health benefits for employees. I am not sure what legal mechanism could accomplish that, if any.

 

[ivwshane]

No time to read it now but I plan to at some point. Any plan like this has to have mechanisms to convert what we all pay for health insurance into what we all pay in taxes instead. Changing it to a payroll tax is only the first half. The other half would be forcing businesses to raise employee salaries by an equivalent amount as what they have traditionally paid for health benefits for employees. I am not sure what legal mechanism could accomplish that, if any.

You can read more of the details from the VOX link in my second post. My initial summary if warren's plan was actually from Sanders.

 

[Jhhnn]

Warren has been scrutinized because there is not a single economist (and majority being non-partisan or leaning left) believes that it would cost 20 trillion.

To put it simply, Warren's isn't realistic. She sincerely has zero clue what the she is talking about from an economical perspective.

If you want this stuff paid for - then you need to be like the countries that implemented it - hike up regressive taxes (VAT) and increase the payroll taxes so that the lower/middle classes pay up. You can't depend on the rich (and upper middle class) for everything... But hey, you can always try. You will fail miserably, but you can try.

We should be able to depend on the rich for more than the GOP asks. The 400 largest incomes in this country pay the lowest total tax % of anybody, including poor people. Their average income was over $330M for a single year. Owning the GOP pays off, big time.

 

[Victorian Gray]

You clearly haven't read her plan.

Elizabeth Warren’s plan to pay for Medicare-for-all, explained

Warren shows how she would pay for it without raising middle class taxes.

www.vox.com

Why would he bother.

 

[woolfe9998]

Whether Warren's cost estimates are realistic is going to depend on how much reduction in reimbursement rates we're willing to tolerate. Too much, too fast could cause turmoil in the medical industry while too little, too slow will make the program too expensive.

A better plan would include a modest middle class tax increase in addition to her stated funding mechanisms, but I understand why, politically, she doesn't want to include that in her plan.

 

[ivwshane]

Whether Warren's cost estimates are realistic is going to depend on how much reduction in reimbursement rates we're willing to tolerate. Too much, too fast could cause turmoil in the medical industry while too little, too slow will make the program too expensive.

A better plan would include a modest middle class tax increase in addition to her stated funding mechanisms, but I understand why, politically, she doesn't want to include that in her plan.

She’ll be releasing a transition plan shortly as well.

 

[1prophet]

No time to read it now but I plan to at some point. Any plan like this has to have mechanisms to convert what we all pay for health insurance into what we all pay in taxes instead. Changing it to a payroll tax is only the first half. The other half would be forcing businesses to raise employee salaries by an equivalent amount as what they have traditionally paid for health benefits for employees. I am not sure what legal mechanism could accomplish that, if any.

You can't even force businesses to stay in America because their customers have been brainwashed to want cheap products made of chinesium, yet somehow you are going to force them to raise wages hoping that these same customers are willing to pay for it in higher prices, good luck with that, you might as well tax the unicorn riding the rainbow carrying that magical pot of gold, probably get better results.

But keep believing these politicians that keep promising healthcare magic that someone else is going to pay for, we were warned almost 30 years ago about this but few listened since it was easier to kick the can down the road than worry about deplorables losing their flyover country jobs because it didn't affect the rest of Americans until recently, don't worry be happy the new oligarchs, the social justice warrior millionaire/billionaire class liberals call it a gig economy instead of a gilded age economy and you give them a free pass.

 

[dank69]

You can't even force businesses to stay in America because their customers have been brainwashed to want cheap products made of chinesium, yet somehow you are going to force them to raise wages hoping that these same customers are willing to pay for it in higher prices, good luck with that, you might as well tax the unicorn riding the rainbow carrying that magical pot of gold, probably get better results.

But keep believing these politicians that keep promising healthcare magic that someone else is going to pay for, we were warned almost 30 years ago about this but few listened since it was easier to kick the can down the road than worry about deplorables losing their flyover country jobs because it didn't affect the rest of Americans until recently, don't worry be happy the new oligarchs, the social justice warrior millionaire/billionaire class liberals call it a gig economy instead of a gilded age economy and you give them a free pass.

Hello? The idea is to take what they currently pay now for worker benefits, and have them pay that in salary instead. In other words, zero effect on any company's bottom line. Thanks for the diatribe and xenophobia though.

 

[Jhhnn]

It's funny how the GOP gets so concerned about paying for anything that benefits ordinary citizens when tax cuts for the Rich never need to be justified in the same way. Because trickle down, you see.

It's the Party of the Rich, for the Rich & by the Rich with delusional culture warriors as cannon fodder.

 

[Homerboy]

It's funny how the GOP gets so concerned about paying for anything that benefits ordinary citizens when tax cuts for the Rich never need to be justified in the same way. Because trickle down, you see.

It's the Party of the Rich, for the Rich & by the Rich with delusional culture warriors as cannon fodder.

They don't seem to care how hiked military or "border security" spending is going to be accounted for either. Just pass the bill and borrow the money, right?

 

[nOOky]

Hello? The idea is to take what they currently pay now for worker benefits, and have them pay that in salary instead. In other words, zero effect on any company's bottom line. Thanks for the diatribe and xenophobia though.

That will never happen. As soon as a company has the option to drop employer paid health insurance because a govt. option is available they will just keep the money and say screw you. More corporate welfare.

 

[Jhhnn]

That will never happen. As soon as a company has the option to drop employer paid health insurance because a govt. option is available they will just keep the money and say screw you. More corporate welfare.

Dank has it wrong. It's obvious that employers must be required to pay out in the form of taxes rather than insurance premiums.

 

[dank69]

Dank has it wrong. It's obvious that employers must be required to pay out in the form of taxes rather than insurance premiums.

That is the other option. Convert the amount they spend on worker benefits into a corporate tax and you reduce the amount the worker has to be taxed. That is probably more realistic from a legal perspective, but I was addressing what I saw said about a payroll tax. Any payroll tax would have to be less than what the employee was paying toward premiums, and that I don't think is possible without some mechanism to make sure corporations are paying into the system as well. As nOOky mentioned, if you don't have that mechanism, corporations are just going to pocket that money.

 

[theeedude]

Why not just fund it how GOP funded prescription drug benefit in Medicare, Iraq war, and tax cuts?

 

[dank69]

You can read more of the details from the VOX link in my second post. My initial summary if warren's plan was actually from Sanders.

Finally got around to reading the links and Warren proposes taxing employers 98% of what they currently pay for employee benefits. As they point out, there are some problems with this, like employers who currently spend more money for better benefits in order to attract top talent will be "punished" under this plan, and the same goes for small business (under 50 employees) that provide benefits even though they don't have to under the law. I think it would be better to just tax them per employee and maybe have the amount taxed per employee proportional to the employee's salary. Doing it this way would kind of reward companies that have been paying extra all along while kind of "punishing" employers that have been skimping, which I think is a bit more palatable.

 

[Luna1968]

You can't even force businesses to stay in America because their customers have been brainwashed to want cheap products made of chinesium, yet somehow you are going to force them to raise wages hoping that these same customers are willing to pay for it in higher prices, good luck with that, you might as well tax the unicorn riding the rainbow carrying that magical pot of gold, probably get better results.

But keep believing these politicians that keep promising healthcare magic that someone else is going to pay for, we were warned almost 30 years ago about this but few listened since it was easier to kick the can down the road than worry about deplorables losing their flyover country jobs because it didn't affect the rest of Americans until recently, don't worry be happy the new oligarchs, the social justice warrior millionaire/billionaire class liberals call it a gig economy instead of a gilded age economy and you give them a free pass.

hands down the most intelligent person to ever run for president in modern times.

 

[thilanliyan]

Why not just fund it how GOP funded prescription drug benefit in Medicare, Iraq war, and tax cuts?

"How to pay for it" only matters when it's a Dem.
If its a Repub, unicorns and rainbows are enough.

 

[ivwshane]

Finally got around to reading the links and Warren proposes taxing employers 98% of what they currently pay for employee benefits. As they point out, there are some problems with this, like employers who currently spend more money for better benefits in order to attract top talent will be "punished" under this plan, and the same goes for small business (under 50 employees) that provide benefits even though they don't have to under the law. I think it would be better to just tax them per employee and maybe have the amount taxed per employee proportional to the employee's salary. Doing it this way would kind of reward companies that have been paying extra all along while kind of "punishing" employers that have been skimping, which I think is a bit more palatable.

I agree and I’m hoping her transition plan addresses such things. Otherwise, if I was a company that put profit before people and I saw warren gaining momentum, I’d drop my employee’s health care coverage in a second.

 

[Lanyap]

Finally got around to reading the links and Warren proposes taxing employers 98% of what they currently pay for employee benefits. As they point out, there are some problems with this, like employers who currently spend more money for better benefits in order to attract top talent will be "punished" under this plan, and the same goes for small business (under 50 employees) that provide benefits even though they don't have to under the law. I think it would be better to just tax them per employee and maybe have the amount taxed per employee proportional to the employee's salary. Doing it this way would kind of reward companies that have been paying extra all along while kind of "punishing" employers that have been skimping, which I think is a bit more palatable.

Employers could always throw in supplemental healthcare insurance to be competitive. I wouldn’t expect MFA to cover everything medium and large employers with good existing plans cover. Everyone I know that uses Medicare either has supplemental coverage from the marketplace or through their former employers as retirees or an advantage plan.

 

[IronWing]

<Looks at premiums, looks at 7.5% payroll tax to replace premiums> I'm in.

 

[Bitek]

Doesn't matter as neither has a chance of passing.

Warren should just say Mexico and China will pay for it to try and win conservative votes