I found a Target that did discounts on display models (different stores have different policies in the electronics dept). I bought the display model without any cables, remote or manual for half price, 84.50. Since I already have a Tivo, I will use this for a manual vcr and to pause live TV. I have a learning remote that I can use instead of the Tivo remote. If you want to use one without the service it can be done, but the nag screens are really annoying. Its worth it for a 20 gig hard drive and spare parts for my regualr Tivo, which I will upgrade at some point.