Whoa! I just started playing 1.11 and all i have to say is that Blizzard seriously screwed up the balance. Undead are too powerful. The Death Knight / Skeleton Warrior combo is all that Undead players ever use. It's insane, no other race stands a chance. I tried Night Elf and Humans against them, but failed miserably. From now on, i'll either use Undead myself or kick players who use them out of my games. There's just no point competing against them.
Warcraft 3: balance my ass!
- Thread starter d1abolic
- Start date
Beta is for fixing minor glitches, not major gameplay overhauls. This kind of stuff should be done in the very beginning of the process. Blizzard doesn't seem to realise that though. Hell, look at Diablo II. They're still changing stuff around!
Blizzard is known for their legendary balance. Sure, it might take a while, but rest assured they will nerf the undead to your liking. Now... Death Knight/Skeleton Warrior eh? Hmmm...
<< Beta is for fixing minor glitches, not major gameplay overhauls. This kind of stuff should be done in the very beginning of the process. Blizzard doesn't seem to realise that though. Hell, look at Diablo II. They're still changing stuff around! >>
yeah, but in diablo it keeps the game interesting, every 2 months or so you can start a new character and base it on the new rules and it will be completely different from all the other characthers you have. Sucks though when you have a high level character mostly based around very few things and then they all turn weak and your character cant do anything.
Is the Warcraft3 beta worth getting? is it such a good game?
Yes, Warcraft 3 beta is simply amazing - worth playing without a doubt.
As for Diablo II - i don't think nerfing keeps it interesting. Seriously, how many times can you do each quest? I must have completed each quest in the game about a dozen times. Damn i can't wait for Asheron's Call 2. Plaers will be able to unassign/reassign points.
As for Diablo II - i don't think nerfing keeps it interesting. Seriously, how many times can you do each quest? I must have completed each quest in the game about a dozen times. Damn i can't wait for Asheron's Call 2. Plaers will be able to unassign/reassign points.
<<
<< Beta is for fixing minor glitches, not major gameplay overhauls. This kind of stuff should be done in the very beginning of the process. Blizzard doesn't seem to realise that though. Hell, look at Diablo II. They're still changing stuff around! >>
yeah, but in diablo it keeps the game interesting, every 2 months or so you can start a new character and base it on the new rules and it will be completely different from all the other characthers you have. Sucks though when you have a high level character mostly based around very few things and then they all turn weak and your character cant do anything.
Is the Warcraft3 beta worth getting? is it such a good game? >>
My uhem, "game" no longer works since the patch came out. For some weird reason, I can't connect and play warcraft III anymore.
I think I'll call blizzard and tell them off after I spend an hour searching for the new patch. eheh eheh, heh heh...
hmm, I might get the beta again, sortof got it last night, but the ace file was completely fuct up.
As for diablo, what keeps it so interesting is the speed of the character development and the variety of magical items, it doesnt realy matter how often you do each quest realy as long as you get different items each time I bought dark ages of camelot a month ago and what a waste of money, it was fun for 2 weeks or so but your character has very little uniqeness about him. Its very slow when leveling and you rarely get magical items.
I'm just looking forward to world of warcraft, diablo style item generation and a world like all the big online rpg games have.
Whats the point of unasigning and reasigning points? so when fighting something realy fast you can just put points in dex and when fighting something realy strong you remove points from dex and put them in str.. where is the fun in that?
As for diablo, what keeps it so interesting is the speed of the character development and the variety of magical items, it doesnt realy matter how often you do each quest realy as long as you get different items each time
I bought dark ages of camelot a month ago and what a waste of money, it was fun for 2 weeks or so but your character has very little uniqeness about him. Its very slow when leveling and you rarely get magical items.I'm just looking forward to world of warcraft, diablo style item generation and a world like all the big online rpg games have.
Whats the point of unasigning and reasigning points? so when fighting something realy fast you can just put points in dex and when fighting something realy strong you remove points from dex and put them in str.. where is the fun in that?
There will always be combos in games that are, if used correctly, out of balance with the rest of the game. The only way to make a game totally balanced is to give everyone the same equipment, like UT or Quake. If you want any amount of realism in a Fantasy game you need spells and equipment, and then there is already a balance problem around. (Unless you want standard spell effects, no special items, etc. Don't complain about how boring it is then though)
It is extremely hard to foresee all balance problems, only in heavy betatesting you will find them. People just don't all think the same, so something someone else didn't even consider (ab-)using may turn out to be one of the strongest features in a game. For those who remember: Master of Magic, War Trolls with flight, invisibility, magic immunity, eldritch blade and spell lock on them. Could not be hit ranged, with spells or by ground units, could not be seen by most flying units, would regenerate during combat and could hit monsters with damage immunity. I've finished games in the hardest mode using only 1 of those. Be glad they betatest it so extensively, rather than bringing out the game and then noticing a few lame assholes ruining the game for the rest on Battle.net.
P.S. Has anyone abused Sorcerer in Diablo II with a maxed out teleport and a ranged hitting hireling? Teleport gets cheaper with more levels in it, get a few skill boosts, and regen skills/items, and you can teleport around at an extremely high speed, far too fast for anyone to ever hit you. The hireling however will be able to fire the moment he/she/it reappears, and will be able to rock people hard that way. Never tried it on Battle.net, but I've used this during single player, and it works quite well. Don't accidently teleport next to something strong and you'll be fine
P.P.S. Also never got to try Druid with maxed raven skill + skill boosts on Battle.net, works fine on monsters. Summon a low level wolf to keep yourself from being hit or fired at, and keep summoning ravens. Their damage gets through all kind of immunities, and although it is not all that much, they can't be hit back, and therefor always will do their max.
It is extremely hard to foresee all balance problems, only in heavy betatesting you will find them. People just don't all think the same, so something someone else didn't even consider (ab-)using may turn out to be one of the strongest features in a game. For those who remember: Master of Magic, War Trolls with flight, invisibility, magic immunity, eldritch blade and spell lock on them. Could not be hit ranged, with spells or by ground units, could not be seen by most flying units, would regenerate during combat and could hit monsters with damage immunity. I've finished games in the hardest mode using only 1 of those. Be glad they betatest it so extensively, rather than bringing out the game and then noticing a few lame assholes ruining the game for the rest on Battle.net.
P.S. Has anyone abused Sorcerer in Diablo II with a maxed out teleport and a ranged hitting hireling? Teleport gets cheaper with more levels in it, get a few skill boosts, and regen skills/items, and you can teleport around at an extremely high speed, far too fast for anyone to ever hit you. The hireling however will be able to fire the moment he/she/it reappears, and will be able to rock people hard that way. Never tried it on Battle.net, but I've used this during single player, and it works quite well. Don't accidently teleport next to something strong and you'll be fine
P.P.S. Also never got to try Druid with maxed raven skill + skill boosts on Battle.net, works fine on monsters. Summon a low level wolf to keep yourself from being hit or fired at, and keep summoning ravens. Their damage gets through all kind of immunities, and although it is not all that much, they can't be hit back, and therefor always will do their max.
Skyclad1uhm1,
I doubt it would be very effective on battlenet because hirelings to so little damage, last time I playd diablo2 online then a bowazone was the most effective, with a bow that does high damage and then using the thing that shoots up to 20 extra arrows... best to have it in around 10-15skill points because the mana cost increases. But thats works only best on low level creatures, for higher level then its best to use the split arrow thing, cant realy remember how it works though
I doubt it would be very effective on battlenet because hirelings to so little damage, last time I playd diablo2 online then a bowazone was the most effective, with a bow that does high damage and then using the thing that shoots up to 20 extra arrows... best to have it in around 10-15skill points because the mana cost increases. But thats works only best on low level creatures, for higher level then its best to use the split arrow thing, cant realy remember how it works though
<< Skyclad1uhm1,
I doubt it would be very effective on battlenet because hirelings to so little damage, last time I playd diablo2 online then a bowazone was the most effective, with a bow that does high damage and then using the thing that shoots up to 20 extra arrows... best to have it in around 10-15skill points because the mana cost increases. But thats works only best on low level creatures, for higher level then its best to use the split arrow thing, cant realy remember how it works though >>
Doesn't need to do all that much damage, if you don't get hit at all any damage will do
While other have to go sit somewhere to regen you can go on indefinately. If you play against monsters try the Sorc stuff with an Amazon friend btw, you teleport around the monsters, being closer to them at all times than your friend, and while they try to aim at you/walk up to you your friend kills them. Edit: Use a hireling with cold damage, slowing em down or freezing them is nice too for this tactic.
<< Doesn't need to do all that much damage, if you don't get hit at all any damage will do
While other have to go sit somewhere to regen you can go on indefinately. If you play against monsters try the Sorc stuff with an Amazon friend btw, you teleport around the monsters, being closer to them at all times than your friend, and while they try to aim at you/walk up to you your friend kills them. >>Yeah of corse any damage is good but it takes so long and people hate group leechers
a friendly combo like sorc and amazon is good though, like necro and sorc(necro to distract and damage and then sorc for heavy damage)
StageLeft
No Lifer
- Sep 29, 2000
- 70,150
- 5
- 0
Balance will get better...
In regards to Undead they are powerful as heck, but although skellie rushes were deadly when 1.10 first came out a lot of people on b.net don't seem overly concerned with them. A friend of mine just refers to Skeleton rushes as free experience. They can be done effectively but MOST people simply send swarms of them at your base and if you have a race like orc you'll be hard pressed to lose a single guy to them. Use your farseer's chain lightening to help beat on them. Plus skeletons are woefully inadequat at taking any sort of tower down. Put down a few orc burrows and they make short work of a crap load of skeletons.
Mass gargs are still deadly but if the other guy expects it they are not hard to counter. I tried garg rushing twice yesterday and the first time it was incredibly good. The second time against an elf player who was using wolf riders with ensnare it was absolutely useless.
Now if you're playing as human you can still put down normal towers and gyrocopters of course ruin a garg onslaught nicely.
In regards to nightelves...I haven't tried their ancient protectors but I hear they are powerful against a skeleton rush. For anti-air you're supposed to use archers but filling an army with just them compromises its melee abilities. Not a big fan of NE right now.
In regards to Undead they are powerful as heck, but although skellie rushes were deadly when 1.10 first came out a lot of people on b.net don't seem overly concerned with them. A friend of mine just refers to Skeleton rushes as free experience. They can be done effectively but MOST people simply send swarms of them at your base and if you have a race like orc you'll be hard pressed to lose a single guy to them. Use your farseer's chain lightening to help beat on them. Plus skeletons are woefully inadequat at taking any sort of tower down. Put down a few orc burrows and they make short work of a crap load of skeletons.
Mass gargs are still deadly but if the other guy expects it they are not hard to counter. I tried garg rushing twice yesterday and the first time it was incredibly good. The second time against an elf player who was using wolf riders with ensnare it was absolutely useless.
Now if you're playing as human you can still put down normal towers and gyrocopters of course ruin a garg onslaught nicely.
In regards to nightelves...I haven't tried their ancient protectors but I hear they are powerful against a skeleton rush. For anti-air you're supposed to use archers but filling an army with just them compromises its melee abilities. Not a big fan of NE right now.
god damn... its just a beta..... I can't wait to get back to school so I can play it myself..... stupid f'n co-op out in the middle of nowhere :|
damn.. by the time the full verison comes out... you guys are gonna be pros! I'll have some serious catching up to do!
StageLeft
No Lifer
- Sep 29, 2000
- 70,150
- 5
- 0
<< damn.. by the time the full verison comes out... you guys are gonna be pros! I'll have some serious catching up to do! >>
In ign's words
<< What chance do you have against them when the game finally comes out?
None at all. They will completely destroy you. You will become helpless cannon fodder for these wicked beta-testers, who will laugh and mock you for being a "noob" while their Battle.net ranking just climbs and climbs. The horror of it all!
>>
i'm not sure how you can screw up the balance of an unbalanced game
maybe you just got used to exploiting it for your own advantage eh? hehe
for me, the game wasn't fun at all 1.03, it wasn't even worth considering buying. shallow gameplay.
maybe you just got used to exploiting it for your own advantage eh? hehe
for me, the game wasn't fun at all 1.03, it wasn't even worth considering buying. shallow gameplay.
As for Diablo II - i don't think nerfing keeps it interesting. Seriously, how many times can you do each quest? I must have completed each quest in the game about a dozen times
yup, you eventually realize that the game is just an waste of time after you've finished it. finding stuff online is such an empty existence.. atleast with rts you have use strategy to outwit your opponents.
yup, you eventually realize that the game is just an waste of time after you've finished it. finding stuff online is such an empty existence.. atleast with rts you have use strategy to outwit your opponents.
<< i'm not sure how you can screw up the balance of an unbalanced game
maybe you just got used to exploiting it for your own advantage eh? hehe
for me, the game wasn't fun at all 1.03, it wasn't even worth considering buying. shallow gameplay. >>
I love it at 1.03. The problem is I already know the changes and I've just been... um... too lazy to update the game
When I finally get around to it I'm going to have to learn a whole new strategy for playing.
<< Whoa! I just started playing 1.11 and all i have to say is that Blizzard seriously screwed up the balance. Undead are too powerful. The Death Knight / Skeleton Warrior combo is all that Undead players ever use. It's insane, no other race stands a chance. I tried Night Elf and Humans against them, but failed miserably. From now on, i'll either use Undead myself or kick players who use them out of my games. There's just no point competing against them. >>
The DK + SW combo as an offensive tool sucks balls, especially if it's against Orcs. I can just throw some guys in my burrows and with upgraded building spikes, your skeleton army will get mowed down. But when they're used to defend a base, they can be more annoying than anything. A group of high-level melee units (Taurens, Knights) can take on MANY, MANY skeleton warriors before dying.
StageLeft
No Lifer
- Sep 29, 2000
- 70,150
- 5
- 0
<< The DK + SW combo as an offensive tool sucks balls, especially if it's against Orcs. I can just throw some guys in my burrows and with upgraded building spikes, your skeleton army will get mowed down. But when they're used to defend a base, they can be more annoying than anything. A group of high-level melee units (Taurens, Knights) can take on MANY, MANY skeleton warriors before dying. >>
Yep, just what I was saying too! When necros are in there and using cripple they're deadly but necros are deadly with cripple anyway.
BTW where do you upgrade orc building to spike? I can't find it and I keep forgetting!! On second thoughts can you still spike a building in 1.11?
MadRat
Lifer
- Oct 14, 1999
- 11,999
- 308
- 126
They go after your peons, dude, not your buildings. WC3 is not the RTS that I thought it would be. Haven't played it in over a week now. Tried a dozen games and it always comes out the same. Take about eight units and a hero, pump up their stats, way laste of the enemy's peons. Sure he can try to do the same, but whomever gets to the other first with the highest level hero usually wins. And forget SIM CITY strategies of WC2, the spell casters and air units lay near-instant waste to towers. Not much strategy in my opinion.
btw - Anyone look at DUNGEON SIEGE as opposed to Diablo2? Its a 3D engine with a seamless map using hundreds of monsters and thousands of objects; sounds way more interesting than Diablo2.
btw - Anyone look at DUNGEON SIEGE as opposed to Diablo2? Its a 3D engine with a seamless map using hundreds of monsters and thousands of objects; sounds way more interesting than Diablo2.
<< They go after your peons, dude, not your buildings. >>
So what? I build most of my burrows around my town hall anyways. You will NOT get near my peons. And besides, the whole point of using Orcs is to "turtle down," and make your base as compact as possible with multiple interior burrows. Orc bases can at times be inpenetrable.
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