War on Drugs - Can't even trust the Canines.

SilthDraeth

Platinum Member
Oct 28, 2003
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Click me for Full read

Below is an excerpt, but basically states that dogs are looking to please the handlers, and will often alert if they think the handler is looking for an alert, or can easily be trained to alert base on other queues from the handler. Rest of the article is about how cops will illegally seize property based on dog alerts or other reasoning from out of state drivers, simply to auction it off.

Good read.

I for one am not surprised.

"...The problem isn't that the dogs aren't capable of picking up the scent, it's that dogs have been bred to please and interact with humans. A dog can easily be manipulated to alert whenever needed. But even with conscientious cops, a dog without the proper training may pick up on its handler's body language and alert whenever it detects its handler is suspicious.

In one study published last year in the journal Animal Cognition, researchers rigged some tests designed to fool dogs into falsely alerting and others designed to trick handlers into thinking a package contained narcotics (it didn't). Of the 144 total searches performed, the dogs falsely alerted 123 times. More interesting, the dogs were twice as likely to falsely alert to packages designed to trick their handlers than those designed to trick the dogs.

In 2011, the Chicago Tribune published a review of drug dog searches conducted over three years by police departments in the Chicago suburbs. The paper found that just 44 percent of dog "alerts" led to the discovery of actual contraband. Interestingly, for Hispanic drivers the success rate dipped to 27 percent, again supporting the theory that drug dogs tend to confirm the suspicions (and, consequently, the biases) of their handlers.

A 2006 statistical analysis (PDF) of police dog tests by University of North Carolina law professor Richard Myers concluded that the dogs aren't reliable enough to provide probable cause for a search..."
 
Sep 7, 2009
12,960
3
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In my opinion this is a commonly known fact, just one that is continually ignored.


It's a method to 'legally' give police a way to search your car. I very much doubt it will ever be changed or repealed in the eyes of the law.
 

Stayfr0sty

Senior member
Mar 5, 2012
465
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Obama said in 04 that he supported decriminalization of marijuana.
Now when they brought the subject up last time about a year ago he basically said"bleh just get it from you know....."

Lets see what happens after reelection maybe he will do what he promised. I can understand him not doing this yet cause of the opposition. THey would have demonized him so bad coming this november if he had already legalized pot.
 

amish

Diamond Member
Aug 20, 2004
4,295
6
81
this isn't the fault of the dog. it is the fault of the handlers. they should give minimum direction to the dog and stay quiet. many false positives happen due to the handler having the dog reconfirm an area over and over. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1TPGcWiU6w
 

SilthDraeth

Platinum Member
Oct 28, 2003
2,635
0
71
In my opinion this is a commonly known fact, just one that is continually ignored.


It's a method to 'legally' give police a way to search your car. I very much doubt it will ever be changed or repealed in the eyes of the law.

It wasn't common knowledge to me. I am pretty anti police state, and against the war on drugs, and of course illegal search and seizure of property. I had my own run ins with the law over their suspicion that cost me a lot of time and money to fight.

I hadn't extended my bias towards the animals, believing them to be impartial. But it does stand to reason that dogs, eager to please, would be so easily manipulated, since they are absolute masters of reading body language, and emotional states.

What irks me, is a particular excerpt in there where one guy had 22k cash seized, and had to spend a lot of time and money to get it back, and even if you ultimately win the case, their is no recourse, no way to have the state reimburse you for taking an innocents items.

I have a friend who went to buy a car on craigslist and had $1500 stolen from him. The cops got the guys and money, guys posted bail, and when he went to court 3 times and the other guys didn't show, he didn't get his money back, and he finally missed the 4th date so he wouldn't get fired from his job, and the court said he forfeited his money to the court.

Absolute BS.
 

nonlnear

Platinum Member
Jan 31, 2008
2,497
0
76
Obama said in 04 that he supported decriminalization of marijuana.
Now when they brought the subject up last time about a year ago he basically said"bleh just get it from you know....."

Lets see what happens after reelection maybe he will do what he promised. I can understand him not doing this yet cause of the opposition. THey would have demonized him so bad coming this november if he had already legalized pot.
What did Obama promise?
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,444
1
0
In my opinion this is a commonly known fact, just one that is continually ignored.


It's a method to 'legally' give police a way to search your car. I very much doubt it will ever be changed or repealed in the eyes of the law.

This, and good post from Silth.
 

nonlnear

Platinum Member
Jan 31, 2008
2,497
0
76
he said in 04 he supported decriminalization of marijuana....
did you not read my post? Now his stance is just bleh on the subject.
Like I said all cause of the opposition.
No, I asked what Obama promised, not what opinion he expressed. There is a better case to be made that he promised more government transparency than that he promised anything regarding drug policy, and we all know how that turned out.
 

Stayfr0sty

Senior member
Mar 5, 2012
465
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0
No, I asked what Obama promised, not what opinion he expressed. There is a better case to be made that he promised more government transparency than that he promised anything regarding drug policy, and we all know how that turned out.

Jeez, sorry I said promised by generalizing many things he did promise, not just the weed thing.
 

nonlnear

Platinum Member
Jan 31, 2008
2,497
0
76
Jeez, sorry I said promised by generalizing many things he did promise, not just the weed thing.
I wouldn't say he promised "many things". His campaign (like any establishment campaign from either party) was almost entirely fluff, purposefully designed to be as promise-free as possible. Real campaign promises are few and far between.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
There is a reason middle America is called "Flyover Country." Just fly over it and skip the hassle.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
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There is a reason middle America is called "Flyover Country." Just fly over it and skip the hassle.

You think that this doesn't happen around the rest of the country?

You know just as well as I that when you give someone, or a group of people, a profit motive to do something that they know they can get away with it that they will almost always do it even if it is wrong.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
In my opinion this is a commonly known fact, just one that is continually ignored.


It's a method to 'legally' give police a way to search your car. I very much doubt it will ever be changed or repealed in the eyes of the law.

/this

it won't be changed even though its known.
 
Jan 7, 2012
107
0
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I would argue that if you asked Joe Public the question, "Are police dogs extremely accurate at using their senses for finding drugs?" the answer would be 90%+ yes. I didn't know this either. Not surprised though.
 

Stayfr0sty

Senior member
Mar 5, 2012
465
0
0
All drugs need to be legalized. Making them illegal just makes things worst.
But yet again what would they do without locked up drug users to use as slaves for 10 cents an hour back breaking work.
 

1prophet

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
5,313
534
126
Obama said in 04 that he supported decriminalization of marijuana.
Now when they brought the subject up last time about a year ago he basically said"bleh just get it from you know....."

Lets see what happens after reelection maybe he will do what he promised. I can understand him not doing this yet cause of the opposition. THey would have demonized him so bad coming this november if he had already legalized pot.


What opposition?

Even Pat Robinson supports decriminalization:awe:

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/pat-robertson-time-to-legaize-marijuana/
 

Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
5,984
2,298
136
It wasn't common knowledge to me. I am pretty anti police state, and against the war on drugs, and of course illegal search and seizure of property. I had my own run ins with the law over their suspicion that cost me a lot of time and money to fight.

I hadn't extended my bias towards the animals, believing them to be impartial. But it does stand to reason that dogs, eager to please, would be so easily manipulated, since they are absolute masters of reading body language, and emotional states.

What irks me, is a particular excerpt in there where one guy had 22k cash seized, and had to spend a lot of time and money to get it back, and even if you ultimately win the case, their is no recourse, no way to have the state reimburse you for taking an innocents items.

I have a friend who went to buy a car on craigslist and had $1500 stolen from him. The cops got the guys and money, guys posted bail, and when he went to court 3 times and the other guys didn't show, he didn't get his money back, and he finally missed the 4th date so he wouldn't get fired from his job, and the court said he forfeited his money to the court.

Absolute BS.

I part about the $22k is also pure BS. US Cash is tainted with illegal drug residue. So a dog will do a drug hit if you have a pile of US cash. So using this as a basis to confiscate the money should be illegal.
 

bononos

Diamond Member
Aug 21, 2011
3,921
177
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I part about the $22k is also pure BS. US Cash is tainted with illegal drug residue. So a dog will do a drug hit if you have a pile of US cash. So using this as a basis to confiscate the money should be illegal.

Unfortunately not according to the drug war forfeiture law. The owner has to prove that the cash is not drug money and not the other way around (iiuic).