War brewing in Colombia . . .

Farang

Lifer
Jul 7, 2003
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200...ImylzQtEmFtEKsEIYEtbAF

CARACAS, Venezuela - President Hugo Chavez ordered Venezuela's embassy in Colombia closed and told the military to send 10 battalions to the border after Colombian troops killed a top rebel leader.
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Chavez told his defense minister: "move 10 battalions for me to the border with Colombia, immediately." He ordered the Venezuelan Embassy in Bogota closed and said all embassy personnel would be withdrawn.

The announcements by Venezuela's leftist leader pushed relations to their tensest point of his nine-year presidency, and Chavez warned that Colombia could spark a war in South America.

He called the U.S.-allied government in Bogota "a terrorist state" and labeled President Alvaro Uribe "a criminal."

Chavez condemned the slaying of senior rebel commander Raul Reyes and 16 other members of the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia, saying they were killed while they slept in a camp across the border in Ecuadorean territory.

He said Colombia "invaded Ecuador, flagrantly violated Ecuador's sovereignty."

"It wasn't any combat. It was a cowardly murder, all of it coldly calculated," Chavez said on his weekly TV and radio program, "Hello, President."

"We pay tribute to a true revolutionary, who was Raul Reyes," Chavez said, recalling that he had met the FARC rebel in Brazil in 1995 and calling him a "good revolutionary."

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.

CARACAS, Venezuela (AP) ? President Hugo Chavez ordered Venezuela's embassy in Colombia closed and told the military to send 10 battalions to the border after Colombian troops killed a top rebel leader.

Chavez told his defense minister: "move 10 battalions for me to the border with Colombia, immediately." He ordered the Venezuelan Embassy in Bogota closed and said all embassy personnel would be withdrawn.

The announcements by Venezuela's leftist leader pushed relations to their tensest point of his nine-year presidency, and Chavez warned that Colombia could spark a war in South America.

He called the U.S.-allied government in Bogota "a terrorist state" and labeled President Alvaro Uribe "a criminal."
So Chavez is on the side of FARC. What a terrible thing to happen to the region if this nut case decides to invade.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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It is not without precedent for the USA to engage in proxy wars against regimes it does not like, so why should we act all enraged when Chevez MAY be doing the same. But last time I checked Chavez is not the de leader of Ecuador, so in that sense he has reason the bitch when Columbia is using its military to intervene in the affairs of its neighbors.

The Farc rebel movement has been engaged in a struggle with the government of Columbia long before Chevez came to power, and while having some of its top leadership
killed may be a set back, Farc is far from dead. And as long as Farc is alive and well, Chevez does not have to worry so much about Columbia being enlisted to fight a proxy war against him.

Methinks the OP has this childish notion that this is some game of cowboys and Indians where the Indians are the devils and the cowboys are the angels that can do no wrongs.
An insurgent movement of long standing like Farc does not remain viable long term unless they are opposed by a government that is actively engaging in repression. And there is no way anyone can make the case that Chevez is the cause of Farc.

So Chavez makes some verbal complaints and symbolic complaints the OP seems to be saying that therefor the sky is falling and the world is ending. When it probably means little or nothing because it does nothing and solves nothing.
 

Farang

Lifer
Jul 7, 2003
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Lemon law, all I said was that a war was brewing (10 battalions on the border and a closed embassy suggests that), that it would be a tragedy if a war was started by someone I see as a nut case (I think only the "nut case" part can be disputed here), and that Chavez is on the side of FARC (seems obvious because this is all over the death of a FARC commander).

I think you read too much into what I was saying, you seem to be responding to an argument I never made.
 

RedChief

Senior member
Dec 20, 2004
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Whats the best way Chavez can divert his owns people attention from serious economic problems and political repression at home? Simple, start a war with a neighbor while blaming it on on the neighbor therefore rallying the people around him.
 

SSSnail

Lifer
Nov 29, 2006
17,461
81
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I like Columbia, very nice women. Medellin, Cali... hmm.

Oh wait, this thread is about crazy Chavez? Why can't he go and join up with his buddy Castro?

The Columbian government has been working hard against the war against the drug cartel and did a fabulous job. The country feels a bit safer, and president Uribe doesn't stand for corruptions or thugs running his country. He won't put up with Chavez's nonsense either, what a loon he is. Can we invade them and export the Venezuelan women too? You guys can keep the oil.
 

Socio

Golden Member
May 19, 2002
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This guy is such a power mad nut job, with delusions of being a super power I bet this will be his first setup in unifying South America under his banner. He will take Columbia, then the people of Ecuador will see him as their avenger and secede all of Ecuador to him.

With the riches he acquires from both Columbia and Ecuador he will buy more weapons and build a bigger army. He will take Panama to control the canal and extort money from all who use it giving him more money for more weapons and troops. As well as black mail for protection from the US as he will destroy it if they try and stop him.

He will then take Peru then Bolivia, Chile, Paraguay and Argentina. Finally he will take Brazil and swallow up the rest of the small countries like Guyana.

Who knows, ten years from now South America could have a whole new name, Chavezuela!
 

colonel

Golden Member
Apr 22, 2001
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Socio, please read my signature , I don't think Brazil, Chile and Argentina are stupid enough to create what you said "Chavezuela", South America is big continent with different countries and cultures, languages. " Colombia" is paying the price to be a USA partner in a Socialist block.

 

Fern

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
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Let me get this straight.

Colombia goes after some Colombian rebels in Ecuador, and Chavez from Venuzeula get's his panties in a bunch and sends troops to the Venuzeulan border with Colombia?

I don't see how it's any of Chazes's business. Nor that we should really care how he deploys troops within his border.

He's just being an attention whore again (for the zillionth time) and butting in to others' business. Kinda hypocritical of him IMO.

Fern
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
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Originally posted by: Fern
Let me get this straight.

Colombia goes after some Colombian rebels in Ecuador, and Chavez from Venuzeula get's his panties in a bunch and sends troops to the Venuzeulan border with Colombia?

I don't see how it's any of Chazes's business. Nor that we should really care how he deploys troops within his border.

He's just being an attention whore again (for the zillionth time) and butting in to others' business. Kinda hypocritical of him IMO.

Fern
Chavez has been overtly supporting, and covertly funding, the FARC terrorists for a very, very long time -- to the point that many believe he secretly uses FARC assets for "dirty work" on a regular basis. He may even directly support FARC's human and drug trafficking.

And, as you can see, their relationship may soon escalate to one of military alliance -- he may lend his troops to assist FARC in finally capturing Colombia. His reward? A communist neighbor who owes him everything.

DOH!
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
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"Move 10 battalions for me to the border with Colombia, immediately." :disgust:

It's complete window dressing, Chavez is not that stupid. No conscript in either army would want to die in such a stupid confrontation, and their officers know it.

The Columbians have had more "combat" experience, if you call conducting often murderous sweeps in rural areas trying to get at the FARC combat. The bulk of the casualties are the Indian campesino civilians caught in the middle. It's an essentially no win situation for them, just like for the peasant farmers in 'Nam. :|

As for overall effectiveness of either army, the Argentines in the Falklands are a decent rough yardstick.

The chance of a war is . . . remote, to say the least.



 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
31,706
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Originally posted by: Socio
Who knows, ten years from now South America could have a whole new name, Chavezuela!
Funny. Somewhat plausible given what Germany did to Europe last century, but still funny due to how far fetched it is that no one from outside the region would interfere with Chavez?s mania.

Lemon?s post is typical. Think he was blaming us for this.
 

StepUp

Senior member
May 12, 2004
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Originally posted by: Lemon law
It is not without precedent for the USA to engage in proxy wars against regimes it does not like, so why should we act all enraged when Chevez MAY be doing the same. But last time I checked Chavez is not the de leader of Ecuador, so in that sense he has reason the bitch when Columbia is using its military to intervene in the affairs of its neighbors.

The Farc rebel movement has been engaged in a struggle with the government of Columbia long before Chevez came to power, and while having some of its top leadership
killed may be a set back, Farc is far from dead. And as long as Farc is alive and well, Chevez does not have to worry so much about Columbia being enlisted to fight a proxy war against him.

Methinks the OP has this childish notion that this is some game of cowboys and Indians where the Indians are the devils and the cowboys are the angels that can do no wrongs.
An insurgent movement of long standing like Farc does not remain viable long term unless they are opposed by a government that is actively engaging in repression. And there is no way anyone can make the case that Chevez is the cause of Farc.

So Chavez makes some verbal complaints and symbolic complaints the OP seems to be saying that therefor the sky is falling and the world is ending. When it probably means little or nothing because it does nothing and solves nothing.

As someone who lived in Colombia, and has been a victim of the FARC, let me tell you that you are so far off your rocker that you should be ashamed of yourself. The only reason that the FARC still has any semblance of withstanding is because they have aligned themselves with the drug traffickers, thus supplying them with the income they need to continue to fight against democracy in the region.

I see Socio post and normally I would call him Sociopath, but the truth is, that it's no tinfoil theory that Chavez wants to invade Colombia. He has said many times that he wishes to recreate the Bolivarian region that once was. He just recently purchased 1500 planes, from where, I do not remember.

You can defend Chavez in that it is obvious that the USA does not support his regime in the slightest. But do not defend an organization like the FARC or ELN (another of the leftist terrorist groups). These are people that hold many poor regions of the country hostage, forcing them to use their land for drug growing and not receiving a dime of this money.

They are the reason that Colombia has the largest number yearly of Land Mine deaths. And they are also the reason why it has the 2nd highest kidnapping rate, with Mexico just recently taking that crown (I don't know where Iraq fits into this equation).

I consider myself a liberal, but your post really pisses me off. I don't think it is the OP with the childish notion, but you who seemed to draw a line in this us vs them. The Colombian government is far from repressive.

These complaints are from symbolic or verbal. Ask anyone in the region, particularly Colombians, and they are vary wary of Chavez, and rightfully so. But that's alright, you keep living here in the USA and posting about your Socialist Utopia.

By the way, my cousin was kidnapped, held for ransom, and murdered by the FARC just last year. Was he a political senator, actively seeking to repress the members of the FARC? No, he was a singer. You may think that the FARC is not dead, but this movement has absolutely no support in Colombia. In fact demonstrations are held spontaneously quite frequently, and millions of people show up to denounce the actions. Colombians want the peace.

Queremos la paz.
 

K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
41,951
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I doubt he'll actually use his own military. He'll probably just send some more advanced weapons and cash to FARC.

Involving his military forces in an all out offensive against a sovereign nation that is heavily supported and allied with the US brings an unacceptably high probability of US military intervention.
 

Socio

Golden Member
May 19, 2002
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Originally posted by: K1052
I doubt he'll actually use his own military. He'll probably just send some more advanced weapons and cash to FARC.

Involving his military forces in an all out offensive against a sovereign nation that is heavily supported and allied with the US brings an unacceptably high probability of US military intervention.
However with so much of the US militaries resources caught up in the Middle East the probability is now an acceptable risk to him.

 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
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Originally posted by: palehorse74
[Chavez] may lend his troops to assist FARC in finally capturing Colombia.
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: Socio
Who knows, ten years from now South America could have a whole new name, Chavezuela!
Funny. Somewhat plausible...
Hardly plausible at all, please. :disgust:

If, in some bizarro alternate universe, Chavez ordered his "army" to invade Columbia, the result would be a tragi-comic clusterfuck all around, and Chavez would suffer the same fate as the Argentine junta generals after the Falklands -- his own people would give him the damn boot.

And, really, Chavez knows this.

"Move 10 battalions for me to the border with Colombia, immediately" is an internal PR move. The principals (governments) on both sides have too much to lose, and they both know it.

There will be no war.

I'm taking bets. Even odds, you name the amount. Foreign policy prognosticators of P&N, stand up and be counted! :p









 

K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
41,951
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Originally posted by: Socio
Originally posted by: K1052
I doubt he'll actually use his own military. He'll probably just send some more advanced weapons and cash to FARC.

Involving his military forces in an all out offensive against a sovereign nation that is heavily supported and allied with the US brings an unacceptably high probability of US military intervention.
However with so much of the US militaries resources caught up in the Middle East the probability is now an acceptable risk to him.
The Air Force, Navy, and a bunch of Marine aviators don't actually have a lot to do right now. Pounding the crap out of the VZ military wouldn't take more than a few days once they had the go ahead.

Let the Colombians provide the ground forces.
 

Farang

Lifer
Jul 7, 2003
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Perknose I'm not denying your analysis of the likelihood of war, but acknowledge that there have been and will continue to be "clusterfucks" that defy rational explanation. To speak in absolutes in any political situation is foolish IMO.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
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Originally posted by: RedChief
Whats the best way Chavez can divert his owns people attention from serious economic problems and political repression at home? Simple, start a war with a neighbor while blaming it on on the neighbor therefore rallying the people around him.
Exactly. Classic dictator move.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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As Fern points out---He's just being an attention whore again (for the zillionth time) and butting in to others' business. Kinda hypocritical of him IMO.

In terms of the foreign policy of the USA, Columbia, and Venezuela, they all butt into each other business and are hypocritical. The Chicago Cubs are a Southside Chicago
team, the pope is supposed to be catholic, and bears still shit in the woods. Whats new? Hypocrisies are the great constant and only the bears don't know any better alternative.
 

colonel

Golden Member
Apr 22, 2001
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SteUP, thank you for give us inside about Colombia, you know some folk here read a lot garbage in the News and twist the whole reality, but I definitely believe it is tough for the Colombian government to control the forest where the Far has a lot control, sorry about your cousin and I dont believe war is coming for the region.


 

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