WaPo: How Donald Trump appeals to men secretly insecure about their manhood

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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
34,007
8,041
136
I cannot read the OP without thinking its heralding reinforces their hatred of us all.
"See Republicans, you are old, bald, dickless scum".

I'm not sure this sort of "conversation" leads where you think it leads.
 

DrDoug

Diamond Member
Jan 16, 2014
3,580
1,629
136
I cannot read the OP without thinking its heralding reinforces their hatred of us all.
"See Republicans, you are old, bald, dickless scum".

I'm not sure this sort of "conversation" leads where you think it leads.

First, point to where I expressed any hatred towards people like yourself (you did say "hatred of us all"), or anyone for that matter, and second, please point to where I said "See Republicans, you are old, bald, dickless scum".

In the meantime, how about discussing the WaPo article?
 
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pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
21,632
4,685
136
Yes, I do seem to know a lot about my neighbors (and friends). That's because I've lived in a small town in a small county for decades. Some I know through my wife's friends, others I go to their homes to service their computers/networks.

Yes, I know them and you seems a lot like them.

Wow, You are really good at this speculation stuff... :rolleyes:
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
34,007
8,041
136
First, point to where I expressed any hatred towards people...

That is not what I said. I'll rephrase it to provide better clarity.

I cannot read the OP without thinking its heralding reinforces Republican's hatred of us all.

Second part, that is plainly how the WaPo article reads and how your OP is intended to be taken.
 

DrDoug

Diamond Member
Jan 16, 2014
3,580
1,629
136
That is not what I said. I'll rephrase it to provide better clarity.



Second part, that is plainly how the WaPo article reads and how your OP is intended to be taken.

Thank you for the clarification. As far as reinforcing any Republican hatred of anything I think most people can agree that they don't really need any help at that at all. They've built their wall of hatred and it's solid enough that they are going to have to be the ones to tear it down. As far others saying that this article and its premise is stupid, it's as stupid as the caricatures of the left by conservatives (tofu eating, tree hugging, etc.). If anything, it's a kind of humorous counterpoint to those who engage in generalities about others. Regarding this article, in light of the history of conservatives engaging in generalities and in our current time, it gave me a good laugh and that's it. If someone can't see the humor in this then I would guess that they are feeling a bit fragile.

As far as hatred of anyone by me, it would be a waste of my time and energy. I prefer to laugh at things. :)
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,636
8,522
136
As far others saying that this article and its premise is stupid, it's as stupid as the caricatures of the left by conservatives (tofu eating, tree hugging, etc.).

Well, two wrongs don't make a right, and, er , so on.

Reading the article properly, I actually think it's more valid than I first thought. They looked at more search terms than just the cheap headline-grabbing one, and the correlation seems to apply across the whole country. However, while social science and epidemiological studies often claim to have controlled for confounding factors, doing that is in reality very difficult, because you might not even know what they are or have good data for them or have a large-enough sample to control for all of them. It's a pet-peeve of mine about a lot of 'findings' in those fields. They themselves admit they've only shown a correlation, and their argument for a causal connection just doesn't stand up (dammit!).


Definitely, though, there seems to be global trend towards looking for strong manly male politicians to 'save' the people, or at least the less-well educated males, from, er, something. It's happening in country-after-country. I believe the linked article is absolutely right about the wider issue, regardless of how convincing their data is.

What I don't understand (and it's something that keeps coming up on this forum) is how the economic issues interact with the gender ones.
 

DrDoug

Diamond Member
Jan 16, 2014
3,580
1,629
136
Well, two wrongs don't make a right, and, er , so on.

Reading the article properly, I actually think it's more valid than I first thought. They looked at more search terms than just the cheap headline-grabbing one, and the correlation seems to apply across the whole country. However, while social science and epidemiological studies often claim to have controlled for confounding factors, doing that is in reality very difficult, because you might not even know what they are or have good data for them or have a large-enough sample to control for all of them. It's a pet-peeve of mine about a lot of 'findings' in those fields. They themselves admit they've only shown a correlation, and their argument for a causal connection just doesn't stand up (dammit!).


Definitely, though, there seems to be global trend towards looking for strong manly male politicians to 'save' the people, or at least the less-well educated males, from, er, something. It's happening in country-after-country. I believe the linked article is absolutely right about the wider issue, regardless of how convincing their data is.

What I don't understand (and it's something that keeps coming up on this forum) is how the economic issues interact with the gender ones.

Two wrongs don't make a right but with the Republican party of today, all we get are wrongs. One right after another, so any concern I may have with doing any wrong towards them is pretty much non-existent.

Feeling empathetic towards others isn't in the modern conservative playbook. They feel joy at the suffering of others, thus my lack of concern for their feels.
 
Mar 11, 2004
23,280
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Well technically a pedophile is someone has strong sexual desires toward prepubescent children. So a person who really like underaged teenagers wouldn't be a pedophile.

Well technically I didn't say anything about who he was attracted to, but have fun arguing that point in defense of people like Turmp and Roy Moore.
 

whm1974

Diamond Member
Jul 24, 2016
9,436
1,567
126
Well technically I didn't say anything about who he was attracted to, but have fun arguing that point in defense of people like Turmp and Roy Moore.
Well I'm not going to defend either one of them as both of them should be ashamed of themselves.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
14,114
136
While all republicans do better with male voters than female, why is it that the male/female divide in voting is stronger with Trump than with other GOP candidates? And it isn't just fewer women voting for him, it's also more men. That means millions of men are voting for him who either voted for a democrat - like Obama - or didn't vote until Trump came along.

If we assume that the methodology described in the article is at best incomplete, then what hypothesis would we advance to explain the observed voting behavior? It's easy to understand the lower support among women, but why the higher male support?
 

DrDoug

Diamond Member
Jan 16, 2014
3,580
1,629
136
Well technically I didn't say anything about who he was attracted to, but have fun arguing that point in defense of people like Turmp and Roy Moore.

I think wolfie is saying that he's a hebephile, not a pedo. A hebe is a someone who likes their fresh meat with a few pubes.

...

If we assume that the methodology described in the article is at best incomplete, then what hypothesis would we advance to explain the observed voting behavior? It's easy to understand the lower support among women, but why the higher male support?

The conservative men I know around here (and the conservative husbands of my wife and daughter's friends) pretty much glom on to the idea that Kim Jong Orange is a wealthy successful businessman surrounded by beautiful women and that he loves his country and honors our military and veterans. They see him as someone who hears them, understands their anger and believes that he would change things for the better if only Democrats and RINOs would leave him alone. The most important thing to every single one if them is that they perceive that he is a real fighter for what he believes in and since they believe that he believes in them, they believe in him. They are largely ignorant of anything but local issues, hate liberals with a passion and treat their women (at least the ones who haven't divorced them yet) like crap. I can't tell you how many times my wife has come home from visiting a friend of hers, kissed me and thanked me for being who I am. When it first happened to me, I asked her what prompted her to say that and she told me about the asshole her friend has for a husband. I've since learned of a few other friends of hers that are in similar situations.

I'll leave out the details but suffice it to say that if I ever treated my wife like they do theirs, she would have kicked me to the curb a long time ago.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,735
28,908
136
I think wolfie is saying that he's a hebephile, not a pedo. A hebe is a someone who likes their fresh meat with a few pubes.



The conservative men I know around here (and the conservative husbands of my wife and daughter's friends) pretty much glom on to the idea that Kim Jong Orange is a wealthy successful businessman surrounded by beautiful women and that he loves his country and honors our military and veterans. They see him as someone who hears them, understands their anger and believes that he would change things for the better if only Democrats and RINOs would leave him alone. The most important thing to every single one if them is that they perceive that he is a real fighter for what he believes in and since they believe that he believes in them, they believe in him. They are largely ignorant of anything but local issues, hate liberals with a passion and treat their women (at least the ones who haven't divorced them yet) like crap. I can't tell you how many times my wife has come home from visiting a friend of hers, kissed me and thanked me for being who I am. When it first happened to me, I asked her what prompted her to say that and she told me about the asshole her friend has for a husband. I've since learned of a few other friends of hers that are in similar situations.

I'll leave out the details but suffice it to say that if I ever treated my wife like they do theirs, she would have kicked me to the curb a long time ago.
That means they have to ignore all the shit right in front of their eyes. So the follow-up question what are they smoking??

Try telling them you think Obama is white and wait for the response. Immediately point back to them
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,636
8,522
136
While all republicans do better with male voters than female, why is it that the male/female divide in voting is stronger with Trump than with other GOP candidates? And it isn't just fewer women voting for him, it's also more men. That means millions of men are voting for him who either voted for a democrat - like Obama - or didn't vote until Trump came along.

If we assume that the methodology described in the article is at best incomplete, then what hypothesis would we advance to explain the observed voting behavior? It's easy to understand the lower support among women, but why the higher male support?

Do you have a link to figures that demonstrate those points? I'm not contesting the claim, it's absolutely plausible, just saying I haven't seen figures that explicitly illustrate the effect or its scale.

The fact that a majority of white women voted for Trump seemed a pretty big deal, to me. It really suggested that race (and maybe other demographic factors, such as some-sort of complicated sub-category of class) trumped(!) sex when it came to that election. But have women grown weary of Trump to a greater degree than male voters since the election?

I mean, the appeal of macho strongman leaders (who delight in rejecting compassion or even reason itself) isn't limited just to men, and historically never has been. Something in what they represent appeals to certain kinds of women voters as well.

Certain classes of people turn to those sorts of leaders in certain times, I don't think it's purely about male insecurity because it's not just men who voted for him (and is the same male insecurity at play in Hungary, Poland, Brazil, Israel and Russia - all of whom have seen a kind of embrace of macho strong-man ideology?). Though Trump's a pretty unconvincing strongman archetype, oddly enough. He's not exactly a secret-police-trained bear-wrestling Putin figure, he's clearly showbiz and 'camp as Christmas'. But he has the 'glorying in hardness and unreason' thing going on.

It's like some dark impulse that's always there in the politics and culture of every country, lying dormant till something summons it to the fore again.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
24,225
10,878
136
Real Manly Man list:
Voted in white misogynist for Prez
Own multiple firearms
Drive gas guzzling pick-up truck with full bed and crew cab.
 

whm1974

Diamond Member
Jul 24, 2016
9,436
1,567
126
Real Manly Man list:
Voted in white misogynist for Prez
Own multiple firearms
Drive gas guzzling pick-up truck with full bed and crew cab.
Hey I used to own multiple firearms and I didn't vote for Trump.
 

1sikbITCH

Diamond Member
Jan 3, 2001
4,194
574
126
Male friends of mine who still support him generally are suburban whites, well off, semi-closeted bigots, ignorant of history and our government (other than they hate Hillary and love liberal tears) and suddenly found politics when the orange clown descended the escalator.

Others I know are simply younger, like my son, but share most of the same characteristics as above.



While I also find myself having to get around some of those jerks myself, I think the article is bull too. Those toothless fucks can't even spell "erectile dysfunction".
 
Mar 11, 2004
23,280
5,721
146
Well I'm not going to defend either one of them as both of them should be ashamed of themselves.

I get your point I just don't really agree with it, and personally I'm not that interested in arguing semantics over sexual predators that seem to like to prey on young females.

I think wolfie is saying that he's a hebephile, not a pedo. A hebe is a someone who likes their fresh meat with a few pubes.



The conservative men I know around here (and the conservative husbands of my wife and daughter's friends) pretty much glom on to the idea that Kim Jong Orange is a wealthy successful businessman surrounded by beautiful women and that he loves his country and honors our military and veterans. They see him as someone who hears them, understands their anger and believes that he would change things for the better if only Democrats and RINOs would leave him alone. The most important thing to every single one if them is that they perceive that he is a real fighter for what he believes in and since they believe that he believes in them, they believe in him. They are largely ignorant of anything but local issues, hate liberals with a passion and treat their women (at least the ones who haven't divorced them yet) like crap. I can't tell you how many times my wife has come home from visiting a friend of hers, kissed me and thanked me for being who I am. When it first happened to me, I asked her what prompted her to say that and she told me about the asshole her friend has for a husband. I've since learned of a few other friends of hers that are in similar situations.

I'll leave out the details but suffice it to say that if I ever treated my wife like they do theirs, she would have kicked me to the curb a long time ago.

No, I understand he was just trying to correct what he perceived to be a misuse of terms. I'm disagreeing that it is a misuse as I believe Turmp has been accused of improper conduct with prepubescent girls too. Maybe I'm mistaken, though. His general demeanor and other accusations paints someone who acts a lot like a many child predators (where its not even about the sexual aspect, its about him exerting his power over them).

Yeah there's lots of shitty guys out there, which is why I don't care when I get called as being "too sensitive" for calling out shitty behavior. I'm certainly not perfect and I used to be typical guy, making light of sexual assault, objectifying women to an excessive degree, but a lot of that helps enable the worse behavior (guys acting on it). I've had people complain about me calling out their behavior on here, and I'm fine with it, because even if I'm wrong, it is making them think. And that's what is needed. Take the thing about the radio station banning "Baby Its Cold Outside", as even if you think that's excessive (to ban it over some iffy lyrics) it is making people actually actively fucking think about that stuff. There's lots of movies and music and other things that make me uncomfortable now. Like Bill Murray's character in Ghostbusters.
 

DrDoug

Diamond Member
Jan 16, 2014
3,580
1,629
136
That means they have to ignore all the shit right in front of their eyes. So the follow-up question what are they smoking??

Try telling them you think Obama is white and wait for the response. Immediately point back to them

Since this is Oregon, some of them are smoking plenty. :) There is nothing for the to ignore, as I said they are largely ignorant of anything not local. What they do know they've learned from Fox News. What I find fascinating is that same guys who claimed there was a "cult of Obama" are absolutely in thrall with Ill Douche. What is interesting is a couple of my wife's friends are not happy with Trump and they told her that they only voted for him because that's who their husband was supporting. They know that my wife voted for Hillary and they've made it clear to her that they regret their vote for Individual 1. One of them has asked her husband to watch anything other than Fox because it was driving her nuts but he pretty much told her to stuff it. She joined her husband in retirement about a year ago and she's going crazy.

There's no reasoning with these guys but there may be with their wives.

I get your point I just don't really agree with it, and personally I'm not that interested in arguing semantics over sexual predators that seem to like to prey on young females.



No, I understand he was just trying to correct what he perceived to be a misuse of terms. I'm disagreeing that it is a misuse as I believe Turmp has been accused of improper conduct with prepubescent girls too. Maybe I'm mistaken, though. His general demeanor and other accusations paints someone who acts a lot like a many child predators (where its not even about the sexual aspect, its about him exerting his power over them).

Yeah there's lots of shitty guys out there, which is why I don't care when I get called as being "too sensitive" for calling out shitty behavior. I'm certainly not perfect and I used to be typical guy, making light of sexual assault, objectifying women to an excessive degree, but a lot of that helps enable the worse behavior (guys acting on it). I've had people complain about me calling out their behavior on here, and I'm fine with it, because even if I'm wrong, it is making them think. And that's what is needed. Take the thing about the radio station banning "Baby Its Cold Outside", as even if you think that's excessive (to ban it over some iffy lyrics) it is making people actually actively fucking think about that stuff. There's lots of movies and music and other things that make me uncomfortable now. Like Bill Murray's character in Ghostbusters.

I don't think Mango Mussolini is a pedo, I think he comes across as a hebe but that's not to say that he hasn't diddled his daughter(s) when they were kids. As a father to a daughter myself, some of the pictures out there of him and Ivanka are really disturbing.