Want to buy XP Pro, but confused about versions

craftech

Senior member
Nov 26, 2000
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I have built two other XP pro machines in the past few years, one for myself and one for someone else. The first time (mine) I used the original version in a retail box and updated it. Currently it runs sp2 with the security fixes up to date.

The second machine was a retail version that had sp2 included. No problems there.

Now I want to build another machine for my son with Xp Pro, but I see a dozen different product numbers most of which the vendors no longer carry (because it is being phased out). Their inventory data is not up to date where I have checked and I am confused.

Syetem builders versions, DSP, etc Product numbers that are confusing. With Key, without Key......Yikes!

I definitely want XP and not Vista or Windows 7 for the build.


What should I order and "where" would also be much appreciated.?

Thanks so much

John
 

MStele

Senior member
Sep 14, 2009
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I recommend Win 7, but if your hellbent on buying XP you can buy XP Pro SP3 OEMs from newegg.com for $136.99.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
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Since the Download of the SP2 and the SP3 Upgrades is free, it does not matter what you buy just get the least expensive.
Not entirely true. You want an XP install CD that includes AT LEAST SP2, otherwise it will BSOD and fail to install on systems that have PCI-E 2.0 support.
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
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Not entirely true. You want an XP install CD that includes AT LEAST SP2, otherwise it will BSOD and fail to install on systems that have PCI-E 2.0 support.

Yeah... but he could build a slipstreamed installation image of XP SP3 if he has an older version CD available. Nlite makes this pretty easy.
 

xSauronx

Lifer
Jul 14, 2000
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I really have to suggest using Windows 7 unless youre building a machine out of old spare parts. Im not a windows fanboi by any means but theres nothing wrong with 7 and XP is more or less EOLed
 

tdawg

Platinum Member
May 18, 2001
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I really have to suggest using Windows 7 unless youre building a machine out of old spare parts. Im not a windows fanboi by any means but theres nothing wrong with 7 and XP is more or less EOLed

Plus, if you buy Win 7 Pro, you get access to the free download of XP Mode, a full on, integrated, virtualized version of windows xp. Very slick.
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
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Plus, if you buy Win 7 Pro, you get access to the free download of XP Mode, a full on, integrated, virtualized version of windows xp. Very slick.

Although it only works if your CPU has VT extensions for some odd reason.
 

MStele

Senior member
Sep 14, 2009
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Although it only works if your CPU has VT extensions for some odd reason.

Its not exactly an odd reason lol. There are very specific reasons for it, with the main one being that it allows one cpu to process threads from multiple sources, i.e. your cpu actually processes Windows 7 and XP mode kernels independently. Without this, Win7 would have to emulate the cpu, which drives performance into the ground.
 

JackMDS

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 25, 1999
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Although it only works if your CPU has VT extensions for some odd reason.

True.

And how do I know if my CPU does VT?

Download CrystalCPUID and run it it will tell if the CPU does Intel VT, or AMD-V (in the niddle of this page, http://crystalmark.info/download/index-e.html ).

VT.jpg


Get the Free XPSP3 install, then get the Win7 VPC and install it too.

Instruction and Download here. (Works only with the Ultimate, Pro, and Enterprise versions).

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/virtual-pc/download.aspx


xp-mode.jpg
 
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xSauronx

Lifer
Jul 14, 2000
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Plus, if you buy Win 7 Pro, you get access to the free download of XP Mode, a full on, integrated, virtualized version of windows xp. Very slick.
wasnt aware of that, but i dont have any software that needs xp for anything so *Shrug*
 

RebateMonger

Elite Member
Dec 24, 2005
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Although it only works if your CPU has VT extensions for some odd reason.
I've never looked into this, but have been curious. It was a pretty big decision, since there's a LOT of recent desktops that don't support VT.

This SOUNDS like a reasonable explanation. But I'm not a programmer:

http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/05/r2e-microsoft-intel-goof-up-windows-7s-xp-mode.ars

"The reason VT is required is that you can't do BT (binary translation) in 64 bit long mode. Remember that when AMD unleashed the x64 extensions on us they removed the segmentation unit and thus there is no way to protect a BT hypervisor that is mapped in to a guests address space from the guest itself.

This is the main reason for the existence of hardware assisted virtualization and also the reason 64 bit OS support was so slow in coming to the world of virtualization. Remember all the thrashing about the world did before virtualization support? Remember Xen trying to hoist guests up to in ring 3 and the horrible performance that resulted?

So the answer to the question seems pretty obvious to me. Microsoft requires VT because they want the feature to exist for both x86 and x64 clients and they don't want to maintain two code bases to do it. Especially since we all know 64 bit is the future and you can't do BT on 64 bit systems hence there is no longer any point in throwing engineering dollar at BT as a solution.

Cheers,
spookware"
 
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Aluvus

Platinum Member
Apr 27, 2006
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Syetem builders versions, DSP, etc Product numbers that are confusing. With Key, without Key......Yikes!

System builder's versions are intended for "system builders", people building multiple systems for resale.

DSP appears to be basically like OEM.

"Without key" implies that you get the disc only, with no license key... fine if all you need is the disc, but useless in your situation.

As posted above, Newegg is a safe bet because they will actually sell you a legitimate copy at a not-ridiculous price.
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
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Its not exactly an odd reason lol. There are very specific reasons for it, with the main one being that it allows one cpu to process threads from multiple sources, i.e. your cpu actually processes Windows 7 and XP mode kernels independently. Without this, Win7 would have to emulate the cpu, which drives performance into the ground.

No, they help by handling some of the low level stuff for the VM software and let it do cool things like run a 64-bit VM on a 32-bit host, but their performance on performance is very small. VM software like VMware, Virtual Box, VPC have never fully emulated a CPU. 99% of the instructions get passed directly down to the CPU, only a select few instructions that need to be amended first get filtered out by the VM software before being executed. In fact, I remember reading something a while back saying that VMware without the VT extensions was faster than with them. Although that may have changed since then.

This SOUNDS like a reasonable explanation. But I'm not a programmer:

So I guess that means VPC requires VT everywhere else too? I honestly don't know since I've never used it and none of my machines have CPUs with VT extensions. And there's the minor fact that the lack of BT doesn't apply to 32-bit CPUs like the one I have in my work laptop that won't run XP mode because of that stupid requirement.
 

craftech

Senior member
Nov 26, 2000
779
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Have you thought about asking your son which OS he would prefer? I can't imagine he would choose XP.

He said he wanted XP Pro. Compatibility with other regular software is well established and he is not a gamer. He read that W7 is kind of a resource hog as well. The system will consist of a Gigabyte EP45-UD3p motherboard and an Intel E5200 processor. 4GB of DDR2. To me that seems perfect for a machine running XP Pro and not Windows 7, no?


Thanks for all this input.

John
 

craftech

Senior member
Nov 26, 2000
779
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System builder's versions are intended for "system builders", people building multiple systems for resale.

DSP appears to be basically like OEM.

"Without key" implies that you get the disc only, with no license key... fine if all you need is the disc, but useless in your situation.

As posted above, Newegg is a safe bet because they will actually sell you a legitimate copy at a not-ridiculous price.

I thought the Newegg version is a "system builders version? E85-05683
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16832116515

Also what is E85-01011?
http://www.outletdeal.com/product.php?eid=2317

John
 
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RebateMonger

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Dec 24, 2005
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As far as I can tell, EB5-01011 was the Retail-Box XP SP2 Upgrade. Microsoft doesn't make that anymore. "Outletdeal.com" appears to be in error in their listing.

Acquiring a "legal" copy of XP, other than new sealed OEM copies, is getting tough. The ratio of OEM to Retail versions of XP far favors the OEM version. Microsoft' licensing doesn't allow the sale of OEM versions except as sealed original packages or as part of a complete PC.

Retail versions can be resold, but if they aren't sealed, you have to trust that the seller won't use that same Key again.
 
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craftech

Senior member
Nov 26, 2000
779
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As far as I can tell, EB5-01011 was the Retail-Box XP SP2 Upgrade. Microsoft doesn't make that anymore. "Outletdeal.com" appears to be in error in their listing.

Acquiring a "legal" copy of XP, other than new sealed OEM copies, is getting tough. The ratio of OEM to Retail versions of XP far favors the OEM version. Microsoft' licensing doesn't allow the sale of OEM versions except as sealed original packages or as part of a complete PC.

Retail versions can be resold, but if they aren't sealed, you have to trust that the seller won't use that same Key again.

The price seems very good at Outletdeal and their resellerrating is good as well.

Which version do you think they are selling at that link? I called them and they said it was in a sleeve instead of a box with that part number. They also said it has a key.

Do you think buying it would be risky?

Newegg is selling a "system builders" version. This is why I am confused. I don't want to buy the wrong thing.

Thanks,

John
 
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Nothinman

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He said he wanted XP Pro. Compatibility with other regular software is well established and he is not a gamer. He read that W7 is kind of a resource hog as well. The system will consist of a Gigabyte EP45-UD3p motherboard and an Intel E5200 processor. 4GB of DDR2. To me that seems perfect for a machine running XP Pro and not Windows 7, no?


Thanks for all this input.

John

I've got a laptop with 2G of memory running Win7 and overall the system feels much more responsive than with XP. Most of the talk about Vista and Win7 being resource hogs is BS.
 

craftech

Senior member
Nov 26, 2000
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I've got a laptop with 2G of memory running Win7 and overall the system feels much more responsive than with XP. Most of the talk about Vista and Win7 being resource hogs is BS.

I don't think the e5200 is VT though? Could be wrong. Doesn't that negate it's use with W7?

John
 

RebateMonger

Elite Member
Dec 24, 2005
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Which version do you think they are selling at that link? I called them and they said it was in a sleeve instead of a box with that part number. They also said it has a key.
It's likely some sort of OEM part. It's also likely NOT complaint with Microsoft's licensing terms, since the license says that OEM software can't be resold once it's opened.

It's even possible it could be Volume Licensed media with pirated Keys. Can't tell from your description. I've seen pirated software being sold by places with decent Reseller Ratings. The Keys mostly work and when they don't work the vendor emails another pirated Key.

Without seeing the media and the package, I'm NOT saying these folks are pirates. But it certainly sounds like what they are selling isn't compliant with MS licensing.

There ARE no bargains in Microsoft OSes. If it's selling for less than Newegg, it's probably being sold out of compliance with MS licensing. Newegg (or other reputatable vendor) will sell only sealed OEM packages. The outside will have a warning that it's not to be resold once the seal is broken. Inside the sealed package will be a CD and a COA (Certificate of Authenticity) sticker that's supposed to be attached to the PC.

Newegg is selling a "system builders" version. This is why I am confused. I don't want to buy the wrong thing.
The "System Builders" version is the name of the OEM version of Windows sold through Newegg and other reputable vendors. It can be purchased and used by anyone. As noted, it's sold sealed and, once opened, can't be resold on its own. It's intended to be installed on a PC and, once installed, can only be resold as part of the whole PC. That's how Microsoft OEM Windows is sold and licensed.

I'm not trying to sell software for Newegg. But my recommendation is to buy sealed OEM XP from a trustworthy vendor. It's not worth the potential trouble to save twenty dollars.
 
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Nothinman

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I don't think the e5200 is VT though? Could be wrong. Doesn't that negate it's use with W7?

John

It negates the use of MS' "XP Mode" VPC bundle, not Win7 itself or other virtualization products like VMware or VirtualBox.
 

tdawg

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May 18, 2001
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He said he wanted XP Pro. Compatibility with other regular software is well established and he is not a gamer. He read that W7 is kind of a resource hog as well. The system will consist of a Gigabyte EP45-UD3p motherboard and an Intel E5200 processor. 4GB of DDR2. To me that seems perfect for a machine running XP Pro and not Windows 7, no?


Thanks for all this input.

John

Unless you're installing XP 64-bit, he wont get to use all 4gb of the ram installed in the machine.

That dual-core should be more than enough for Win 7 x86 (32-bit), no problem. Overall just a better experience, in my opinion. What software does he have that he's worried won't work outside of XP?
 

craftech

Senior member
Nov 26, 2000
779
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Unless you're installing XP 64-bit, he wont get to use all 4gb of the ram installed in the machine.

That dual-core should be more than enough for Win 7 x86 (32-bit), no problem. Overall just a better experience, in my opinion. What software does he have that he's worried won't work outside of XP?

Adobe Photoshop, Sony Vegas, lots of Utilities (not sure which ones), Office 97, Picture it Publishing (older version), some 16 bit applications (I think).

John

Which version of W7 do you recommend for a system like that? Where would you buy it?

Thanks,

John