Want to build a server-like machine ....

[Phaetos]

Seeing as this is my first post, I'm hoping I got this in the right section, if not please feel free to move it where it goes.

I need certs to move up and maybe out of the job I'm in. I have decided that since we are moving to a total MS house, leaving Novell Netware and replacing servers with Active Directory, it might be a good time to do this. So in this quest, I have decided that I need a new machine built strictly for this purpose, training. It's been nearly 8 years since I built a PC by hand and am considering building my own. But I don't know where to start anymore, so many options on everything.

Here is what I am looking at the box doing:

1) Run some form of VM host(like ESX or Hyper-V)
2) be able to run multiple VM's at once, like DC's, DHCP servers, etc and several basic workstation setups
3) will NOT be a gaming machine of any sort, strictly for learning AD and MS stuff

Specs of the box I'm looking for:
1) primary SSD drive for the OS
2) TB secondary drive(s)
3) copious amounts of RAM, was thinking that somewhere between 24G and 32G might be good
4) thinking more cores the better when it come to processor, but I could be over-thinking this part
5) would like for it to be in a small footprint formfactor, but then what about cooling this thing?
6) does not need a fancy graphics card or sound. can use onboard from the mobo

I saw in a previous thread that there is a Hyper-V free edition, is that right? We use ESXi and VSphere at work to manage our hosts. I know VMware is $$$$$, so it probably off the table unless there is a free or highly discounted edition available for what I want to do here.

Suggestions, comments and criticisms(as long as they are constructive [;D] ) are all welcome.

And I'm trying to not brake the bank here. If I have to buy it piece by piece, then I will. But this is something I need to do to better myself in my career.

 

[mfenn]

Welcome to the forums! You have indeed come to the right place. In order for us to help you out, we need to know a few more things, especially budget. Can you update your post with the answers to the questions posed in the sticky?

As for the hypervisor, since you use VMware vSphere and ESXi at work, then it makes sense to make your test lab VMware as well. You can get a single-server license of ESXi for free. It doesn't have vCenter and the associated features, but it works the same at the individual hypervisor level.

 

[Agent11]

ASUS KCMA-D8 ATX Server Motherboard Dual Socket C32 AMD SR5670 DDR3 1333/1066/800

AMD Opteron 4334 Seoul 3.1GHz 6MB L2 Cache 8MB L3 Cache Socket C32 95W Six-Core Server Processor OS4334WLU6KHKWOF x2

Wintec Server Series 64GB (4 x 16GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM ECC Registered DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Server Memory Model 3RSL160011R5H-64GQ
(memory controller is on the CPU and the 43xx or 42xx series give the motherboard ddr3 1600 capability)

total $1,229.96 not too shabby.

If you want to practice on a server I would suggest building a server. If you are willing to bear the inherent risk of buying used parts on ebay you could shave the cost considerably on things like memory, raid controllers, 10k and 15k rpm drives. Virtualization has been around for a while so if you really want to spend the least amount possible I'm sure you could buy the entire thing used and save some money.

Will this be using a multi monitor setup?

 

[mfenn]

ASUS KCMA-D8 ATX Server Motherboard Dual Socket C32 AMD SR5670 DDR3 1333/1066/800

AMD Opteron 4334 Seoul 3.1GHz 6MB L2 Cache 8MB L3 Cache Socket C32 95W Six-Core Server Processor OS4334WLU6KHKWOF x2

Wintec Server Series 64GB (4 x 16GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM ECC Registered DDR3 1333 (PC3 10600) Server Memory Model 3RSL13339R5H-64GQ

total $1219, not too shabby.

If you want to practice on a server I would suggest building a server.

That's not even close to a full machine, and who knows what the OP's budget is. Besides, the free hypervisor licenses are single-socket only.

Furthermore, CPU is almost never the bottleneck for a lab setup, it's almost always storage IOPS becasue of frequent OS reinstalls, reboots, software installs, etc.

 

[Agent11]

With this you would have 12 cores, 2 ddr3 channels per cpu, 8gb of registered memory per channel.

be able to run multiple VM's at once, like DC's, DHCP servers, etc and several basic workstation setups

I am confident this platform could do that very well.

That's not even close to a full machine, and who knows what the OP's budget is. Besides, the free hypervisor licenses are single-socket only.

That would be why I only posted the main components for the platform, so he could get a feel for what it would cost. Being as he has not been specific I would rather not go through the time of laying out the entire build.

 

[mfenn]

With this you would have 12 cores, 2 ddr3 channels per cpu, 8gb of registered memory per channel.

I am confident this platform could do that very well.

I'm not contesting that. What I am saying is that you're proposing spending a bunch of money on solving a problem that the OP won't have. To reiterate: CPU resources and memory bandwidth are the least of your concerns in a lab environment.

 

[Agent11]

The single socket license is an issue.

SUPERMICRO MBD-H8SGL-O ATX Server Motherboard Socket G34 AMD SR5650 DDR3 1600/1333/1066

AMD Opteron 6320 Abu Dhabi 2.8GHz 8MB L2 Cache 16MB L3 Cache Socket G34 115W 8-Core Server Processor OS6320WKT8GHKWOF

Wintec 32GB (4 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM ECC Registered DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Server Memory Model 3RSH160011R5H-32GQ

sub total $839.97

 

[Torn Mind]

What certs do you plan on getting, Phaetos?

 

[Cerb]

5) would like for it to be in a small footprint formfactor, but then what about cooling this thing?

If not building it, that makes me think you'd want a 2U or tower Dell. They go down to OK noise levels, after bootup.

By scouring harwdare compatibility lists (example), you should be able to save a buck or two by building, and many common server features really won't mean anything for such a lab machine (ECC and native SAS support spring to mind). But, even so, you might want to have IPMI...so that you can, well, try using IPMI, without going to a big vendor.

Look for used Dell and HP servers. As long as they take DDR3, and have either (a) native Intel/AMD SATA ports, or (b) an LSI SAS controller with a fan-out connector or single SAS ports, you can sufficiently upgrade them for not too much money. Used prices are fairly strong, but every few weeks I'll accidentally come across a good deal on a Nehalem-gen box on eBay. "Damn, that's a good deal...but I don't really want it or need it...but it's so cheap for what it is..."

IMO, you don't want to buy new servers from a big vendor for your purpose, if it's coming out of your own pocket. RAM capacity, quick loading/reloading/updating, and support for the main VM features you might use are what you're after. A used server might do that better than a new DIY; or a new DIY may offer better value, since it could be faster, support more/cheaper RAM (FI, if you can get all the HW features supported in VMware that you need with an i3 or FX, and give them plain unbuffered non-ECC RAM, that can save you quite a bit, and may end up even or cheaper than buying a used server). There's a lot of gray area, IMV, often depending on what ou can find at the moment.

 

[Phaetos]

No multi-monitor setup. If I have to, I will buy it piece by piece, so i guess budget may or may not play a factor in this. Some thing reasonable would be good, so lets set an imaginary limit at .... $1000 and see where that gets me in parts .....

As far as the certs, guess I'm gonna start at the bottom and work my way thru them. I know vague answer. I still got research to do on all this anyway.

 

[Agent11]

Do you need the OS, monitor and peripherals included in the $1000? Also what resolution monitor would you prefer? Would running off very weak on board graphics be acceptable?

NZXT Source 210

Refurbished: SAMSUNG 740N-BK Black 17" 8ms Off Lease LCD Monitor will need a d-sub to vga adapter, or go buy a vga lcd at goodwill , kmart, walmart or bestbuy. Should be about the same price.

wd green 1tb

SILVERSTONE ST50F-ES 500W ATX12V v2.3 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Power Supply

SUPERMICRO MBD-H8SGL-O ATX Server Motherboard Socket G34 AMD SR5650 DDR3 1600/1333/1066

AMD Radeon 4GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM ECC Registered DDR3 1333 (PC3 10600) Server Memory Model AS34G1339R14SU X4

Corsair Force CSSD-F90GB2/RF2 2.5" 90GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)

AMD Opteron 6320 Abu Dhabi 2.8GHz 8MB L2 Cache 16MB L3 Cache Socket G34 115W 8-Core Server Processor OS6320WKT8GHKWOF

Everything but the keyboard, mouse and OS. $894 before shipping. Should be able to upgrade to dedicated gpu, or Raid card and lots of storage with this psu if you want to.

 

[Torn Mind]

No multi-monitor setup. If I have to, I will buy it piece by piece, so i guess budget may or may not play a factor in this. Some thing reasonable would be good, so lets set an imaginary limit at .... $1000 and see where that gets me in parts .....

As far as the certs, guess I'm gonna start at the bottom and work my way thru them. I know vague answer. I still got research to do on all this anyway.

I myself don't have any certs, but I would think that working towards network related certs makes sense since it is an integral part of running a server. In addition, security cert would also be useful as you have to protect the server from data attacks.

I would think that administering a server could be done remotely without a need for a monitor attached to it at all using Remote Desktop Protocol.

In addition, doing tasks involving server administration is actually a very light task in itself. When taxes the CPU in a server are the hands off tasks the server does when you aren't working with it, such as handling network transfers to someone.

I would say to dig around for something like an old generation PowerEdge that has Windows Server 2008 R2 pre-installed so you can have the best educational environment. Perhaps image the Windows install and then clone it to an SSD to speed up install, OS navigation, and VM performance.

 

[Agent11]

An intel option, ecc unbuffered ram, has less ram capacity, fewer memory channels, fewer cores, but has on board usb3 and is less expensive.

ASRock E3C204 ATX Server Motherboard LGA 1155 Intel C204 DDR3 1600/1333/1066

Kingston 8GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM ECC Unbuffered DDR3 1600 Server Memory w/TS Model KVR16E11/8

Intel Xeon E3-1220 V2 Ivy Bridge 3.1GHz (3.5GHz Turbo) 4 x 256KB L2 Cache 8MB L3 Cache LGA 1155 69W Quad-Core Server Processor BX80637E31220V2

 

[Phaetos]

Do you need the OS, monitor and peripherals included in the $1000? Also what resolution monitor would you prefer? Would running off very weak on board graphics be acceptable?

NZXT Source 210

Refurbished: SAMSUNG 740N-BK Black 17" 8ms Off Lease LCD Monitor will need a d-sub to vga adapter, or go buy a vga lcd at goodwill , kmart, walmart or bestbuy. Should be about the same price.

wd green 1tb

SILVERSTONE ST50F-ES 500W ATX12V v2.3 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Power Supply

SUPERMICRO MBD-H8SGL-O ATX Server Motherboard Socket G34 AMD SR5650 DDR3 1600/1333/1066

AMD Radeon 4GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM ECC Registered DDR3 1333 (PC3 10600) Server Memory Model AS34G1339R14SU X4

Corsair Force CSSD-F90GB2/RF2 2.5" 90GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)

AMD Opteron 6320 Abu Dhabi 2.8GHz 8MB L2 Cache 16MB L3 Cache Socket G34 115W 8-Core Server Processor OS6320WKT8GHKWOF

Everything but the keyboard, mouse and OS. $894 before shipping. Should be able to upgrade to dedicated gpu, or Raid card and lots of storage with this psu if you want to.

Not worried about monitor, keyboard, mouse and vid card. It's a server not a game system.

Edit: Does this total cost figure in total RAM, or just one stick? Since it has 8 slots, I would think populating all 8 with 4GB sticks would be good, considering the cost is only $45 a stick. Or maybe just 1/2 the slots to start with and fill in the rest later ....

Edit 2: The case.... I'm guessing that a smaller case wouldn't be feasible since this is what appears to be a full size mobo?

 

[Phaetos]

I myself don't have any certs, but I would think that working towards network related certs makes sense since it is an integral part of running a server. In addition, security cert would also be useful as you have to protect the server from data attacks.

I would think that administering a server could be done remotely without a need for a monitor attached to it at all using Remote Desktop Protocol.

In addition, doing tasks involving server administration is actually a very light task in itself. When taxes the CPU in a server are the hands off tasks the server does when you aren't working with it, such as handling network transfers to someone.

I would say to dig around for something like an old generation PowerEdge that has Windows Server 2008 R2 pre-installed so you can have the best educational environment. Perhaps image the Windows install and then clone it to an SSD to speed up install, OS navigation, and VM performance.

Valid points, all of them. My current work replaces servers every 3 years, but they are all pizza box rackmounts. I don't have a rack and don't plan on having one.

 

[Agent11]

Not worried about monitor, keyboard, mouse and vid card. It's a server not a game system.

Edit: Does this total cost figure in total RAM, or just one stick? Since it has 8 slots, I would think populating all 8 with 4GB sticks would be good, considering the cost is only $45 a stick. Or maybe just 1/2 the slots to start with and fill in the rest later ....

Edit 2: The case.... I'm guessing that a smaller case wouldn't be feasible since this is what appears to be a full size mobo?

Yes. That total was with 4 sticks added to my cart and the case and motherboard are both atx.

 

[Phaetos]

Yes that total was with 4 sticks added to my cart.

Cool, that price isn't so bad, especially after knocking off the monitor I don't need.

Performance. Is there any reason to go AMD over Intel?

 

[Torn Mind]

Hmm, if you want small, the Dell Poweredge T20 might be right for you. Although, it is still says "coming soon" on the site right now, so you'll have to give them a call.http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/poweredge-t20/pd

Otherwise, searching for old server boards and CPUs such as Xeons compatible with X58 or LGA775/LGA771 server boards would be more cost effective. For X58, the Xeon L5639 is only about $90-$100

Do you plan to put this server into any sort of production environment when you're done with the training? Or is this going to be "retired" when your training is done?

 

[Agent11]

The Opteron 6300 review here at anandtech

Intel Xeon E3-1220 V2 review

It comes down to more threads and memory channels/memory capacity for amd between these two. Also the intel requires unbuffered ECC while the opteron can take advantage of registered ECC.

The only real advantages for intel in my opinion is single thread performance and onboard sata3. There is a slight cost difference but not much.

 

[Zargon]

if you want to do VMWARE you need to make sure the hardware is supported

http://www.vm-help.com//esx40i/esx40_whitebox_HCL.php

https://communities.vmware.com/cshwsw.jspa

 

[Agent11]

They seem to have a problem updating that list, you could use it as a shopping list for used server motherboards on ebay though.

 

[Phaetos]

Hmm, if you want small, the Dell Poweredge T20 might be right for you. Although, it is still says "coming soon" on the site right now, so you'll have to give them a call.http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/poweredge-t20/pd

Otherwise, searching for old server boards and CPUs such as Xeons compatible with X58 or LGA775/LGA771 server boards would be more cost effective. For X58, the Xeon L5639 is only about $90-$100

Do you plan to put this server into any sort of production environment when you're done with the training? Or is this going to be "retired" when your training is done?

I will continue to use it for my home network, so yeh, "production" it is

 

[Phaetos]

The Opteron 6300 review here at anandtech

Intel Xeon E3-1220 V2 review

It comes down to more threads and memory channels/memory capacity for amd between these two. Also the intel requires unbuffered ECC while the opteron can take advantage of registered ECC.

The only real advantages for intel in my opinion is single thread performance and onboard sata3. There is a slight cost difference but not much.

That answers that question.

 

[Phaetos]

if you want to do VMWARE you need to make sure the hardware is supported

http://www.vm-help.com//esx40i/esx40_whitebox_HCL.php

https://communities.vmware.com/cshwsw.jspa

Yeh, I checked their compatibility page for 5.1u, and the 6300 series Opterons are on that list.

Edit: http://www.vmware.com/resources/com...=Mu49LCZeYXNgy-QKI8U5uw&bvm=bv.52164340,d.b2I

that's the link i checked for the processor on, but when i search for Supermicro boards, none are listed for any version of ESXi ....

Edit 2: checking the simplified search, that model is not listed at all .....

 

[Agent11]

I think it is most likely a matter of being slow to validate motherboards. You could give supermicro a ring before you buy it though to make sure.