Want some pointers for audio upgrades

[mrSHEiK124]

I've got a 2007 Nissan Altima with no premium audio package.

I've already replaced the stock head unit with an Alpine iDA-X001, and I love it; I just want to finish the job and replace the speakers. 24-bit Burr Brown DAC, iPod integration, and I only paid $79 for it brand new when they were still selling for $300

My car's got 3.5" speakers in the dash, 6.5" in the front doors, and 6x9s in the rear deck. I already replaced the rear deck speakers with Infinity Kappa 693.7i speakers (Text)

For the front door speakers, I'm currently thinking about getting Infinity Reference 6022si Shallow-Mount speakers (Text) because Nissan didn't give me much room in the front doors.

I'm not sure if I should even bother with the dash speakers; some people tell me to forget it, but I'm basically going forward with it in lieu of getting proper component speakers for my doors (I don't want to bother with mounting tweeters). JBL GTO327 (Text) should fit in the dash, and they're 2 ohm.

My rear deck speakers are grossly underpowered with the measly ~30W my headunit is giving them, so I'm going to want an amp. WoofersEtc has a decent looking Sony amp for $139.99 (Text), I'd use it to power the rear deck speakers alone on the rear channel and both the door and dash speakers on the front channel. Everything I'm looking at right now is 2 ohms, so I'll get an extra 15W per channel.

A friend is giving me an old Rockford Fosgate subwoofer amp he isn't using anymore, so I've got that out of the way. I am not in any way a bass head, I just want to fill out the lower frequencies, so I don't want anything bigger than 10". I don't think I'd be happy with an 8" sub though, what do you guys think of these? Rockford Fosgate Punch P1S410, Rockford Fosgate Punch P210S4, Infinity Kappa 102.7w. I really don't know anything about SVC vs. DVC, so if anyone could chime in I'd appreciate that.

Also, I don't know what I want to do as far as a sub enclosure is concerned, nor what other things I need to buy (do I need a cap? what kind of wiring kits should I buy? etc.)

Any help would be appreciated

 

[Hyperlite]

Alrighty.

First, the sub. Any of the subs you linked sound like they would fit your bill. Also take a look at Elemental Designs. My dad is running an SQ10 in his tundra, and my brother runs an 11Ov2 in his car. Both are performing very well. The SQ10 is interesting because it can go in a redicuously small box. we soon realized that we would have to design the box not to meet the volume requirement, but to get a surface big enough just to mount the sub. Anyway, i suggested those because they are both very shallow compared to the subs you linked, but if space isn't that much of a concern that whatever floats your boat. By space, i mean the subs you linked would need, at a maximum, 1 cubic foot of your trunk.

Amp. Need some details. What wattage is it rated at and at what impedance? If you don't know this info, try looking at the side of the amp where you would connect your sub leads. it tells you sometimes.

SVC vs DVC: Get a DVC. don't worry about it. SVC configs are mainly used when running more than one sub.

wiring kit: spend no more than $40 on a 4 gauge "Subwoofer wiring kit" from woofersetc.

i have a feeling you can find something cheaper for the 2ch amp. let me do some looking.



edit: slap my mouth, the 11Ov2 is a bit deeper. check out the 11Kv2, it's more comparable to the subs you linked.

 

[mrSHEiK124]

Originally posted by: Hyperlite
Alrighty.

First, the sub. Any of the subs you linked sound like they would fit your bill. Also take a look at Elemental Designs. My dad is running an SQ10 in his tundra, and my brother runs an 11Ov2 in his car. Both are performing very well. The SQ10 is interesting because it can go in a redicuously small box. we soon realized that we would have to design the box not to meet the volume requirement, but to get a surface big enough just to mount the sub. Anyway, i suggested those because they are both very shallow compared to the subs you linked, but if space isn't that much of a concern that whatever floats your boat. By space, i mean the subs you linked would need, at a maximum, 1 cubic foot of your trunk.

Amp. Need some details. What wattage is it rated at and at what impedance? If you don't know this info, try looking at the side of the amp where you would connect your sub leads. it tells you sometimes.

SVC vs DVC: Get a DVC. don't worry about it. SVC configs are mainly used when running more than one sub.

wiring kit: spend no more than $40 on a 4 gauge "Subwoofer wiring kit" from woofersetc.

i have a feeling you can find something cheaper for the 2ch amp. let me do some looking.

Thanks!

I was confused as to which one people used for more than one sub. I think one 10" is going to be overwhelming, definitely not thinking about multiple subs, I'll go with DVC. I'm not familiar with Elemental Designs; I know my noobish side is showing just by automatically jumping at Infinity (and also JBL, same shit) and Rockford Fosgate, but it's all I know.

It's a 4ch amp though, not 2 ch (for the speakers, the linked Sony amp). Won't I need some wiring stuff for this too? Wires to the amp, and then wires back to my front speakers (the deck speakers won't be difficult at all, I could do it on my own).

Hell, if it didn't involve setting up amps, running power wires through the firewall, etc, I'd do it on my own. I handled replacing the headunit and rear deck speakers perfectly fine with a friend. Anything I should look out for with "professional" installers?

 

[Hyperlite]

Oh yes sorry i forgot it was 4ch. There's nothing wrong with jumping to RF and infinity. they make solid entry level stuff. Yeah most people have never heard of eD...i love their stuff and i guess i've made it my mission to get their name out there. To be honest, amp installation isn't hard. It's a lot of wires to run, and it is tedious, but it isn't difficult. If you did the HU by yourself than you should have no trouble with the amps. I don't really have any experience with installers...when i did my car, i researched for a loooong time, planned everything out, and my dad and i did it in about 4 days (this is sub, amp, HU, custom made enclosure, new speakers all around) with no problems. Neither of us are electrical engineers, and we had no prior experience. I think the best advice i can give you is to make sure they are listening to what you say. Go through the installation with them, have them tell you where they are going to run wires and how they are going to get over any obvious hurdles. Where do they plan on mounting amps, etc...what type of hardware do they use, cabling, wtc. Running wires through the firewall( in my case) was as simple as following the wiring harness through a boot in the firewall. And yeah, i don't know how i overlooked this, but you will need two wiring kits. or one large one. let me compile a list of what you should need wire wise.

 

[QueBert]

Kicker CVR 10" for an inexpensive sub that doesn't need tons of power or a huge box to sound good. Might be too bassy for your liking though. I'm also a fan of the Polk DB 10" they sound clean and have some punch to them. as Hyperlite said - I've heard good things about eD, they're not a huge company so people don't know about them. But neither is Diamond Audio and they make awesome speakers. I had a 12' Atomic sub in my car, NOBODY I came across had heard of them. But the sucker pounded hard.

you don't need a cap they're worthless.

 

[jtvang125]

I'm assuming you're going to want to power all your speakers with the amp. If so, you'll have to make sure they wire it correctly. If they wire the dash and door speakers to one channel in parallel it's going to yield a 1 ohm load which your amp can't handle. They can however wire them in series to get a 4 ohm load. You'll get a little less power but the amp will run stable. If you're set with running a 2 ohm final load to extract the maximum output from the amp then either ditch the dash speakers or get 4 ohm speakers.

Any of those subs will work fine if you just want some bass. A sealed box will give you tighter bass and require a smaller box. A ported box needs more internal volume but is louder. It's up to you to decide which type of bass you want. Doesn't matter whether you go with single or dual VC as long as the final resistance (ohms) is matched with your sub amp. If your sub amp can handle down to 2 ohms then get either a single 2 ohm sub or a 4 ohm dvc sub.

As for the wiring there are 2 amp wiring kits. Basically it'll have a long, single large gauge + and - cables, a distribution block to split the power to 2 amps and shorter, smaller cables to go from the distribution block to the amps. If the kit doesn't come with RCA cables then you'll need 2 sets of those (One 4 channel set and one 2 channel set).

Speaking of eD I have their nine.5 5ch amp. This thing is a beast at 25" long. It does 100w to the 4 speakers and ~800w to the sub @ 1 ohm.

 

[radioouman]

I don't know what your front 3.5" speakers sound like, but if they sound decent, I'd keep them. In cars today, you are reflecting the highs off of the windshield and the speakers are tuned to sound decent doing this. You could easily get into a situation where the highs are so loud that they will make your ears bleed.

You might be surprised for what you need for bass. I have run a pair of 8" 4-ohm subs with a 50 watt per channel amp and that is really the minimum I need to have nice sound when driving down the interstate. If I were driving a wagon or an SUV, I wouldn't need that much, but in a sedan that has pretty good isolation between the trunk and the interior, 2 8's is the minimum. (A lot of people would want more, but I'm not a bass-head either.)

Make sure that your grounds are good for your amplifiers, and if your wiring is too small you should consider a stiffening capacitor.

 

[mrSHEiK124]

Originally posted by: Hyperlite
Oh yes sorry i forgot it was 4ch. There's nothing wrong with jumping to RF and infinity. they make solid entry level stuff. Yeah most people have never heard of eD...i love their stuff and i guess i've made it my mission to get their name out there. To be honest, amp installation isn't hard. It's a lot of wires to run, and it is tedious, but it isn't difficult. If you did the HU by yourself than you should have no trouble with the amps. I don't really have any experience with installers...when i did my car, i researched for a loooong time, planned everything out, and my dad and i did it in about 4 days (this is sub, amp, HU, custom made enclosure, new speakers all around) with no problems. Neither of us are electrical engineers, and we had no prior experience. I think the best advice i can give you is to make sure they are listening to what you say. Go through the installation with them, have them tell you where they are going to run wires and how they are going to get over any obvious hurdles. Where do they plan on mounting amps, etc...what type of hardware do they use, cabling, wtc. Running wires through the firewall( in my case) was as simple as following the wiring harness through a boot in the firewall. And yeah, i don't know how i overlooked this, but you will need two wiring kits. or one large one. let me compile a list of what you should need wire wise.

Hmm, the head-unit took me and a friend an hour and a half, we spent the first 45 minutes figuring out how to get the damn stock unit out without breaking any trim pieces, an extra 30 minutes figuring out the horrible aftermarket wiring harness I bought and then splicing into the ORIGINAL connector for some wires (like illumination) that the harness manufacturer didn't effing include! Actual install of the headunit took only 15 minutes, 5 minutes to wire it up and another 10 to put it back in.

Rear deck speakers took maybe an hour, most of which was spent figuring out how the deck came off.

He's done a bit of work on his own car, and I'm just good with electronics (I have 10,000 posts here ) so I think we'd be able to tackle it, I just don't want to get stuck with a "workshop" of a car for a few days.

Originally posted by: QueBert
Kicker CVR 10" for an inexpensive sub that doesn't need tons of power or a huge box to sound good. Might be too bassy for your liking though. I'm also a fan of the Polk DB 10" they sound clean and have some punch to them. as Hyperlite said - I've heard good things about eD, they're not a huge company so people don't know about them. But neither is Diamond Audio and they make awesome speakers. I had a 12' Atomic sub in my car, NOBODY I came across had heard of them. But the sucker pounded hard.

you don't need a cap they're worthless.

Everything I've heard from Kicker sounded like it was only good for gangsta rap, which probably makes up 1% of what I listen to. The Infinity Kappa DVC is actually what I'm leaning towards right now, I recall listening to a bunch of Infinity subs at Best Buy with some of my own music, they hit hard, more importantly have very "tight" bass, and they also handle the top half of the lower frequencies pretty well too. I like 'em

Originally posted by: jtvang125
I'm assuming you're going to want to power all your speakers with the amp. If so, you'll have to make sure they wire it correctly. If they wire the dash and door speakers to one channel in parallel it's going to yield a 1 ohm load which your amp can't handle. They can however wire them in series to get a 4 ohm load. You'll get a little less power but the amp will run stable. If you're set with running a 2 ohm final load to extract the maximum output from the amp then either ditch the dash speakers or get 4 ohm speakers.

:Q Thanks! I didn't think of that, and I JUST finished Physics II and aced the circuits test

I could keep the dash speakers running off the ~30W @ 2 ohm directly from my HU and then run wires only for the door speakers to the amp, what do you think? The manual for my headunit says "for potentially better sound quality" I should disable the internal preamp if using the line/RCA outputs for an amp.

Any of those subs will work fine if you just want some bass. A sealed box will give you tighter bass and require a smaller box. A ported box needs more internal volume but is louder. It's up to you to decide which type of bass you want. Doesn't matter whether you go with single or dual VC as long as the final resistance (ohms) is matched with your sub amp. If your sub amp can handle down to 2 ohms then get either a single 2 ohm sub or a 4 ohm dvc sub.

What about a bandpass box?

Originally posted by: radioouman
I don't know what your front 3.5" speakers sound like, but if they sound decent, I'd keep them. In cars today, you are reflecting the highs off of the windshield and the speakers are tuned to sound decent doing this. You could easily get into a situation where the highs are so loud that they will make your ears bleed.

You might be surprised for what you need for bass. I have run a pair of 8" 4-ohm subs with a 50 watt per channel amp and that is really the minimum I need to have nice sound when driving down the interstate. If I were driving a wagon or an SUV, I wouldn't need that much, but in a sedan that has pretty good isolation between the trunk and the interior, 2 8's is the minimum. (A lot of people would want more, but I'm not a bass-head either.)

Make sure that your grounds are good for your amplifiers, and if your wiring is too small you should consider a stiffening capacitor.

A few guys on Nissan message boards replaced their dash speakers with Boston Acoustics 3.5s and they loved the sound. I actually think my dash speakers are too harsh, people replace them with softer ones. I've got the balance on the HU right now at -4 (rear is +4) because the dash speakers are so harsh and if the front and rear have equal power than the ~100W Kappas in the deck basically sound like they're off.

Hmm, 2 8s or 1 10. I've got 1 10" (Logitech Z-5500s) and I love it. My Z-2300s have an 8" sub, and you lose a lot of the really low frequencies but it hits a lot harder.

 

[jtvang125]

I don't recommend running 2 ohms on a headunit's output and many companies don't either. The internal amp is going to run extremely hot and possibly fail prematurely. A bandpass box is going to give you a very boomy bass and take up more space since it's basically 2 boxes in one big enclosure.

 

[normalicy]

OK, I'll jump in here without trying to confuse things.

First off, ED speakers are the real thing. It's a company I support & they support their customers, though most people I know can't afford their stuff. The other brands as has been mentioned are all good & reliable, though those are their lower end pickings. However, lower end does tend to have one good quality.... efficiency. Many people buy the most expensive subs they can afford that can handle 1500 watts rms & then wonder why the 1000 watt amp they bought barely moves them. That's because the manufacturers make some sacrifices to enable such power handling. True, those subs can get incredibly loud, but at low power levels, they can barely move because of the suspensions that have to be strong enough to handle monster power. So, low buck subs from reliable manufacturers certainly aren't something to be embarrassed of. I don't know if space is an issue, but if not, I will say that most people I know (actually pretty much every person) that just got one sub when they got into car audio (because they didn't want to boom) ended up getting another soon after. It's addictive & you don't have to boom to enjoy lots of bass. You'll find that stuff that you never appreciated before sounds better with a well tuned system & extra bass always makes it more satisfying (even if classical is your thing). If you totally want to stick with one sub, consider a 12" because it provides some extra leway on the lower notes & only takes up about 1/2 cubic foot extra space. Also, Kicker speakers are fine, it's just that most people that are loyal to them are loyal because they are boomers. Properly tuned, Kickers sound just as musically accurate as the other brands out there. It's funny actually, because they began as sound quality subs.

That said.... where do I start. OK, first off, I would like model numbers on the amps so we know exactly what they can handle & what loads they put out the most power at.

As for the wiring, what has been said is good info. One 4 gauge wire running to the back & split will power 2 amps just fine. When radioouman mentioned a good ground, he meant it, sand the paint off of where you ground to & bolt it down tight. Don't use an existing bolt in the car, because it's unknown how well grounded it is. Also, always make sure where you drill or screw that there isn't anything behind it (gas tank, brake lines, fuel line, heater core, wires, etc.). When going through the firewall with the power wire, I do like to use an existing grommet if there is room because the factory grommets are well made & it's one less hole to make in your car. If you have to drill (in many cars it is necessary), always use a grommet to pass through. Otherwise, the sheetmetal WILL eventually cut through the wire. I may be getting ahead of myself though, because I'm not sure if you're going to do it yourself. So, I guess I'll stick with recommended equipment.

As has been said, bandpass boxes really aren't meant for anything but booming. They are just made to make loud bass at a very limited frequency range. I prefer sealed boxes myself because they are easy to build, can go into the lower frequencies easier, are less of a concern (easy to blow speakers with a ported box if you go too low for the port's tuning), & as has been said, they are smaller. However, some subs are just better built for ported boxes, so you take what you get. Generally, going with what the manufacturer recommends for a box has always left me with too much boom or high frequency bass. For better sound quality & smoother extension into lower frequencies, I recommend about 1/4 cubic foot larger than recommended from most any manufacturer (and for certain I know that to be the case for the Infinities).

I don't know why you are insisting on using 2 ohm speakers, especially if you are using 2 sets, but I'll wait to see what we're dealing with amp wise before judging that. They have their place, but many people don't understand it. Many people just want to go lower because they know that it makes things louder. But if it makes the load too hard for the amp or if they have to be rewired to reduce the load to the point where the amp isn't being pushed, then it's a waste. The same goes for dual vs. single voice coil on the sub. It totally depends on the amp.

I do highly recommend getting components speakers. The cost difference will be minimal compared to 2 pair of coaxials (possibly cheaper) & really there are no coaxials that compete with even many low grade component speakers. The installation difficulty isn't much harder, especially since you have the dash locations which are perfect for tweeters & since you'll be running new wires anyhow.

If you are running an amp for any of your high frequency speakers, just leave the head unit's power alone. It throws everything out of wack as far as gain. At one point on the volume control, the radio powered speakers will be blaring & the rest will be quiet & then at the other end, the opposite will happen. Sometimes, it isn't too noticable, but I don't think it's justified in this case to run anything seperately. Also, ditto the 2 ohms on a head unit.

Also, you have a PM coming.