Walmart's push for USA made stuff hits snag

[TreVader]

You speak out of ignorance. Good wielders take time to develop. I don't know about AC repairmen but a good welder who constantly places down good, solid and clean wielding beads time and time again is not a person you can just pump out in a mere matter of months. The skill of wielding consistently good wields time and time again takes more then a few months of on the job experience to really hone and develop. Which is significantly more skill then it takes to flip a burger or hold a sign protesting the fact that you choose burger flipping as a career choice, which it was never meant to be in the first place. Hence why minimum wage hikes are slap in the face of skilled and certified workers because eventually it erodes their purchasing power along with the rest of the middle-class.

Lol last time I checked it takes barely 9 months to do 90% of these programs, the ones that take the absolute longest take 2 years. The pass rate is absurdly high, the requirements to enter are zero...


Why should somebody who's only experience which differentiates them from being "unskilled" is a few thousand dollars to spend six months at one of these trade schools be respected any more than the guy at Home Depot?

 

[Carson Dyle]

Lol last time I checked it takes barely 9 months to do 90% of these programs, the ones that take the absolute longest take 2 years. The pass rate is absurdly high, the requirements to enter are zero...

Why should somebody who's only experience which differentiates them from being "unskilled" is a few thousand dollars to spend six months at one of these trade schools be respected any more than the guy at Home Depot?

What does "respected" have to do with anything? A company is hiring an entry-level welder. Do they hire a guy who's had nine months of trade school, or do they hire a guy who says he welds stuff in his garage?

 

[TreVader]

What does "respected" have to do with anything? A company is hiring an entry-level welder. Do they hire a guy who's had nine months of trade school, or do they hire a guy who says he welds stuff in his garage?

The question is does the guy who spent 9 months in trade school deserve to earn 4x what the dude who welds in his garage makes.



Answer is without a doubt no. I really think this is a case of people with trade school "degrees" playing elitist with the only people they can be elitist around: People with no education at all.

 

[Carson Dyle]

The question is does the guy who spent 9 months in trade school deserve to earn 4x what the dude who welds in his garage makes.

Answer is without a doubt no. I really think this is a case of people with trade school "degrees" playing elitist with the only people they can be elitist around: People with no education at all.

Show me a company where one entry-level employee makes 4X as much as another doing the same job. The guy with some formal training may command a higher salary, but not always.

You just sound like someone with an ax to grind.

 

[TreVader]

Show me a company where one entry-level employee makes 4X as much as another doing the same job. The guy with some formal training may command a higher salary, but not always.

You just sound like someone with an ax to grind.

I'm not sure what your point is. Am I grinding an ax on the part of fast food workers? I work in an office (duh).



Maybe I just like chipotle THAT much.

 

[Engineer]

Lol last time I checked it takes barely 9 months to do 90% of these programs, the ones that take the absolute longest take 2 years. The pass rate is absurdly high, the requirements to enter are zero...


Why should somebody who's only experience which differentiates them from being "unskilled" is a few thousand dollars to spend six months at one of these trade schools be respected any more than the guy at Home Depot?

You obviously have no clue on what it takes to be a good welder. Maybe the Home Depot guy should weld the I beams in the bridges near your home, eh?

 

[TreVader]

You obviously have no clue on what it takes to be a good welder. Maybe the Home Depot guy should weld the I beams in the bridges near your home, eh?

Luckily not an issue as southern california has very few bridges (none near me).



No I don't know what it takes to be a good welder, and I don't honestly care, but I do know that it can't be all that impressive if it only takes a few months to get in the door.


To put it in perspective, I went to school for 12 years, then another 4 years just to be able to be eligible for the job that got me the job that got me this job.


Somehow I doubt any welder will have to do anything like that to get a job welding two pieces of metal on a bridge.

 

[Engineer]

Luckily not an issue as southern california has very few bridges (none near me).



No I don't know what it takes to be a good welder, and I don't honestly care, but I do know that it can't be all that impressive if it only takes a few months to get in the door.


To put it in perspective, I went to school for 12 years, then another 4 years just to be able to be eligible for the job that got me the job that got me this job.


Somehow I doubt any welder will have to do anything like that to get a job welding two pieces of metal on a bridge.

Like I said, you know nothing about welding, much less what it takes to be a 'good welder'. Just a college educated 'snob' looking down on the peasants doing their 'menial jobs'. I'll take one great skilled trade machinist/welder/machine builder over a dozen of your type all day long (and yes, I've seen it from decades of experience).

 

[TreVader]

Like I said, you know nothing about welding, much less what it takes to be a 'good welder'.

Can't argue with that i guess.

 

[Carson Dyle]

To put it in perspective, I went to school for 12 years, then another 4 years just to be able to be eligible for the job that got me the job that got me this job.

Somehow, that really doesn't put anything into perspective. What's your degree in? I have a feeling that will give us some real perspective.

 

[TreVader]

Somehow, that really doesn't put anything into perspective. What's your degree in? I have a feeling that will give us some real perspective.

Lol it's a BS in Chem, your point?

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Welders can not come out of trade school and have the ability to perform specialized welds however, they do know how to operate the welding machines and basic welding techniques that are commonly used. They must receive additional training and perform weld tests until they can pass such to be certified to perform specific weld procedures. Welders are required to be able to weld in many different positions as well as different material (base and rod type).

The first thing our clients want to see when any welding is required to repair their equipment is the welding procedure and the certifications of the welder to ensure they're qualified to perform the weld repair.

 

[Strk]

You obviously have no clue on what it takes to be a good welder. Maybe the Home Depot guy should weld the I beams in the bridges near your home, eh?

Hah! The joke is on you. I live in MA where we just don't fix them in the first place! Oh wait.....

But seriously, a good welder is hard to find. It is like a lot of trades though, people like to go with the cheapest. I actually used to work at Home Depot in the millwork department (doors & windows). People came in regularly with install problems because the door they just bought has issues. Obviously it was our fault because "their guy" is an expert. Of course the problem was usually that their guy didn't level or square off the door.

 

[werepossum]

I suppose these manufacturing problems you guys mention could be valid in Walmart's case, but I'd like to give another perspective.

Not too long ago I worked with US companies and Walmart was well known for ruining many many. One might think getting a contract with Walmart to sell your products was a 'home run', but it was too often the 'kiss of death'.

The Walmart 'experience' often resulted in them being the only retailer to carry your product because of how cheap they could sell them. Your other retail customers ended up dropping you because they couldn't compete with Walmart.

And if Walmart merely was your largest customer (as opposed to the only one) they'd start pressuring you hard to lower your price, and therefore your margins. If they're your biggest, or only customer, they've got all the leverage.

Then Walmart would force you to fund their inventory, meaning they pay very slowly for what you deliver. I.e., you end up eating their interest costs.

Now maybe their problem is a lack of manufacturing base here. OTOH, maybe their problem is that no one wants to do business on their terms. I.e., their excuse is self-serving.

Fern

That's an excellent point.

Like I said, you know nothing about welding, much less what it takes to be a 'good welder'. Just a college educated 'snob' looking down on the peasants doing their 'menial jobs'. I'll take one great skilled trade machinist/welder/machine builder over a dozen of your type all day long (and yes, I've seen it from decades of experience).

Well said.

Welders can not come out of trade school and have the ability to perform specialized welds however, they do know how to operate the welding machines and basic welding techniques that are commonly used. They must receive additional training and perform weld tests until they can pass such to be certified to perform specific weld procedures. Welders are required to be able to weld in many different positions as well as different material (base and rod type).

The first thing our clients want to see when any welding is required to repair their equipment is the welding procedure and the certifications of the welder to ensure they're qualified to perform the weld repair.

Yep. Most people do not understand how much one has to learn to be a good production welder at the manufacturing or repair level, where one must not only provide a strong weld but one that makes economic sense. From there it only gets more complicated as one moves to exotic materials and techniques.

Also, one big reason trade school takes less time is that one is typically spending little if any time studying history, English, literature, etc. One hits the core material and one hits it hard.

 

[Matt1970]

Sure, we can get manufacturing back here but we are going to have the same problem we had that lead to our current situation. It is going to be out for sale on a shelf in a store right next to the same thing made overseas. Which one do you think will cost less and which one do you think the majority of people will buy?

 

[waggy]

Working in a factory, for most people, _is_ bad. It's boring, monotonous, unrewarding work. It's like being in prison for a paycheck. And these days, it's typically not a very good living, unlike fifty years ago when unions demanded high wages for unskilled and semi-skilled production work.

Skilled trades are a different story. If there are shortages, the laws of supply and demand dictate that eventually those shortages will be filled.



Those classes a far cry from trade schools. They're as worthless as home economics classes that teach girls how to bake cakes. Trade schools and vocational technical training in high schools has not gone anywhere. They still exist.



Not. Manufacturing jobs are unlikely to come back to the US in any great numbers. Ever.

and tha tis why the middle class is fucked. people have this mentality.

A factory job is NOT bad. they pay is enough to support a family. are you going to have a million dollar house? no. but you can afford a nice little home and decent car. Also there are places where demand for such jobs are far higher then a office job.

of course classes in high school are not trade schools. never said they were. BUT they do help kids find out what they like and are good at. Also it does teach kids a basic understanding of such jobs.

Yes trade schools have gone somewhere. they are not nearly as many as there was 20 years ago.

 

[Engineer]

Yes trade schools have gone somewhere. they are not nearly as many as there was 20 years ago.

They were closed as the factories were closed. No need for the skilled trades if the places where many worked (or built stuff for) were no longer here.

 

[Moonbeam]

How novel to find a P & N thread in which people who actually know something about the topic express their real world experience.

 

[Carson Dyle]

How novel to find a P & N thread in which people who actually know something about the topic express their real world experience.

You mean people with blue collar jobs???

How amazing.

 

[Fenixgoon]

having gotten to play with a welder (finally), i can tell you that that shit takes some real skill. i might know plenty about the metallurgy of welds, but damned if i can actually make a weld.

definitely something i'd like to learn though

 

[Moonbeam]

You mean people with blue collar jobs???

How amazing.

You have your own real talent. You can amaze yourself by your own internal invention. You may be out in left field with your musings, but who cares?

 

[Matt1970]

How novel to find a P & N thread in which people who actually know something about the topic express their real world experience.

Rather than just calling people brain dead over and over and over?

 

[Exterous]

As I said many of "Gen Y" do not want to work at demanding jobs

:thumbsup: We are trying to expand our manufacturing floor but we are having a difficult time trying to retain workers. The job is demanding in that you need to pay very close attention to your actions and your tolerances all day every day. We pay quite well and have a good benefits package but we only do 'Contractor to Fulltime' for the floor jobs because so few have the willingness to do the job. Pretty much anyone can do the work but the managers are told over and over again that 'its too hard'

 

[Londo_Jowo]

:thumbsup: We are trying to expand our manufacturing floor but we are having a difficult time trying to retain workers. The job is demanding in that you need to pay very close attention to your actions and your tolerances all day every day. We pay quite well and have a good benefits package but we only do 'Contractor to Fulltime' for the floor jobs because so few have the willingness to do the job. Pretty much anyone can do the work but the managers are told over and over again that 'its too hard'

The company I work for is using a similar approach, very few make it past the 90 day probation period. Many have what it takes but would rather work a less demanding job even if it means being paid less.

 

[ControlD]

We have our own internal apprenticeship program where I work although we still need to hire contract labor to fill our needs at times. Without a steady supply of trained workers that have completed the apprenticeship program however I'm not sure we would still be open. If you offer good enough incentives (a journeyman's card upon completion for example) there are still plenty of young people interested. The problem is that most companies aren't willing to spend the time and money to properly apprentice skilled trades workers. Somehow I guess they think those people will just magically appear when they get tried of flipping burgers.

To those making comments like "anyone can learn to weld in a few months" that is a load of crap. You can learn the basics of welding in a few months the same way you can learn basic electrical wiring or machine repair in a short period of time. To become skilled in any trade takes years of experience.