Wall Street Not Impressed with iPhone 7, Apple shares fall 3%

[Eug]

The point is to have fast pairing as well as uber low power utilization while maintaining decent enough range and high enough bitrates.

My understanding is that while BT is capable of high bitrates, most of the implementations have suffered because the necessity of low power usage has decreased the bitrates and limited the range. It's been postulated that W1 is greater than BT 4.2, taking draft or like features from BT 5. Either that, or perhaps has implemented some other changes to ensure high-bitrate AAC transmission and decoding via BT 4.2 always is being used, instead of dropping down to some inferior bitrate or codec.

Whatever the case, the iPhone 7 specs merely mention Bluetooth 4.2 support, which isn't helpful, since BT 4.2 has been present ever since iPhone 6.

Why do they need to be coerced? Bluetooth headphones are already outselling wired headphones as it is. I would think consumer demand in this case is enough to convince headphone manufacturers to concentrate on wireless models, and in fact they already are.

Just to be clear: Revenue of wireless headphones is a bit higher than revenue of wired headphones now, but in terms of unit sales, wired headphones far, far outsell wireless.

http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-iphone-7-wireless-headphones-sales-chart-2016-9

 

[mrochester]

Why do they need to be coerced? Bluetooth headphones are already outselling wired headphones as it is. I would think consumer demand in this case is enough to convince headphone manufacturers to concentrate on wireless models, and in fact they already are.

Is that not the stat that turned out to be wireless headphones generated more revenue than wired headphones, not outsold (precisely because they are more expensive; the problem Apple is incentivising manufacturers to solve by massively increasing their potential market)?

 

[Fingolfin269]

The incentive of business is profit. Bluetooth headphones, as you say, are already more profitable than their wired counterparts. Apple happens to already own 25% of this more profitable segment. So once again I fail to see what other manufacturers decide to do as having any relevance to what Apple decides to do with Beats. What you are attempting to argue really makes no sense at all.

 

[ControlD]

Is that not the stat that turned out to be wireless headphones generated more revenue than wired headphones, not outsold (precisely because they are more expensive; the problem Apple is incentivising manufacturers to solve by massively increasing their potential market)?

That is possible, I don't remember the exact stat.

 

[Midwayman]

Does APTX do what the W1 chip does?

I don't think anyone can answer that yet. Tech specs are light, but aptx is an increased audio quality codec available over bluetooth. Supposedly there is some increased ease of pairing with w1, but that's never been the downfall of bluetooth. Its been getting two products to speak the same high quality codec since support isn't madatory in the bluetooth spec.

The only thing we can say for sure is apple own the patent so will get to play gatekeeper.

 

[Eug]

Supposedly there is some increased ease of pairing with w1, but that's never been the downfall of bluetooth. Its been getting two products to speak the same high quality codec since support isn't madatory in the bluetooth spec.

Actually, two of my beefs with Bluetooth have been the pairing reliability and speed.

The only thing we can say for sure is apple own the patent so will get to play gatekeeper.

Yup.

BTW, I've been toying with the idea of getting a Bluetooth headset for work. I have a Sennheiser KLEER set, but it's a clunky setup. However, Apple's announcement has given me pause, as I contemplate the possibility of getting a W1-enabled set instead, since I'll already have the W1-enabled phone anyway.

However, I probably won't. For work, I just want something low budget, and the AirPods don't fit that description. Plus, I'd probably be using it more with my laptop than my phone, and obviously my laptop doesn't have W1.

 

[Kazukian]

I really want one, used.

Also, in my perfect world, I'd start a thread about Samsung's 26 billion loss in market cap since the fires.

http://qz.com/779270/samsung-has-lost-26-billion-in-value-since-it-recalled-the-galaxy-note-7/

 

[poofyhairguy]

I don't think anyone can answer that yet. Tech specs are light, but aptx is an increased audio quality codec available over bluetooth. Supposedly there is some increased ease of pairing with w1, but that's never been the downfall of bluetooth.

In order of issues:

1. Sound Quality (which I think Aptx fixes somewhat, Bluetooth 5 fixes completely).

2. Cost (especially in something like a car with native support)

3. Distance aka it gets crappy if you walk away (the distance problem is why my house is filled with wifi Chromecast Audios)

4. Pairing (pain the first time you do it)

 

[dainthomas]

I really want one, used.

Also, in my perfect world, I'd start a thread about Samsung's 26 billion loss in market cap since the fires.

http://qz.com/779270/samsung-has-lost-26-billion-in-value-since-it-recalled-the-galaxy-note-7/

Sounds like an amazing time to buy.

 

[antihelten]

I really want one, used.

Also, in my perfect world, I'd start a thread about Samsung's 26 billion loss in market cap since the fires.

http://qz.com/779270/samsung-has-lost-26-billion-in-value-since-it-recalled-the-galaxy-note-7/

But you see, Apple dropping by 3% (which they have already recovered by the way) is obviously much worse than Samsung dropping by 11%, because reasons.

 

[Commodus]

But you see, Apple dropping by 3% (which they have already recovered by the way) is obviously much worse than Samsung dropping by 11%, because reasons.

I suspect Achtung is huddled in a corner somewhere, slowly rocking back and forth in a bid to comfort himself.

"Don't worry, it's just a temporary setback on the road to the Glorious Inevitable Samsung Monopoly. Just temporary, just temporary, just temporary..."

Meanwhile, both Sprint and T-Mobile are reporting roughly 4X the pre-orders they had around the 6s launch era. AT&T and Verizon are silent at the moment, so it's hard to say if this is an overall spike in demand or just disaffected AT&T/Verizon customers switching over.

 

[Radeon962]

I think it is a lot of iPhone 6/6+ users upgrading as its still the 2 year cycle even without contracts.

The new "lease" programs are starting to be much like 2-year contracts were previously. Get the iPhone for free but you need to get on Next, Jump, etc. and then you will get a bill credit over 2 years.

 

[blankslate]

Maybe it's just that even higher specced phones from a few years ago and recent mid-range phone do pretty much everything that a large majority of people really need so new releases of phones won't necessarily bump up stock prices reliably anymore.

Apple isn't going anywhere even if the EU wins the case in Ireland or Tim Cook screws up on a semi-regular basis.

that being said I like this college humor ad for the iPhone 7
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgBDdDdSqNE

________________

 

[stlc8tr]

Closing prices for September 7, 2016:

AAPL: 108.36 (USD)
KRX:005930: 1,621,000 (KRW)

Let's check back in a year.

So far OP's prediction isn't working out so great but it's still early.

AAPL: 111.68 (USD)
KRX:005930: 1,527,000 (KRW)

 

[Kazukian]

Sooooo, can I officially call shenanigans on this thread?

https://www.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ:AAPL&ei=Y6XaV4j_Nsf_jAGq2qj4Bw&authuser=1

 

[WelshBloke]

Sooooo, can I officially call shenanigans on this thread?

We should just just have that auto added to all Achtungs threads!

 

[Achtung!]

The share price has nothing to do with what's really going on in a company's financials. They're just pieces of paper that don't even provide companies with any benefits. These short-term market swings are just the market's preconception of what's going on at a superficial level.

People may be buying back Apple stock, and Apple's stock price has gone up ~8% since the iPhone 7's release. However, the real picture is this:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-09-16/here-are-lines-people-waiting-new-iphone-7

Barely anyone waiting outside of stores for the iPhone 7.

Taken September 16, 2016 (iPhone 7 official release date in the US):

It was NOT like this for the iPhone 6.

I don't see Apple's stock price going much above $115 now. It has been overbought because of hype that iPhone 7 initial stock was "sold out". Of course it's sold out, because they need that to hit the headlines.

But actual sales numbers probably tell the opposite story.


Now compare this to the iPhone 6:

This Birmingham Apple store on the day of the iPhone 7 & 6S releases, respectively:

The iPhone 6S didn't meet expectations.

So the iPhone 7 may be an even bigger miss.

 

[Eug]

Barely anyone waiting outside of stores for the iPhone 7.

Uh, yes. sold out. Apple made announcement a couple of days ago saying the iPhone 7 Plus (all colours) was completely sold out worldwide, and the Jet Black is also completely sold out worldwide, so it would be completely pointless to stand outside unless you wanted a gold 7 or something.

Well, not completely pointless. Apple gave up to $100 gift cards to some of those waiting in line, and told them to go home.

 

[Kazukian]

The share price has nothing to do with what's really going on in a company's financials. They're just pieces of paper that don't even provide companies with any benefits. These short-term market swings are just the market's preconception of what's going on at a superficial level.

People may be buying back Apple stock, and Apple's stock price has gone up ~8% since the iPhone 7's release. However, the real picture is this:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-09-16/here-are-lines-people-waiting-new-iphone-7

Barely anyone waiting outside of stores for the iPhone 7.

It was NOT like this for the iPhone 6.

I don't see Apple's stock price going much above $115 now. It has been overbought because of hype that iPhone 7 initial stock was "sold out". Of course it's sold out, because they need that to hit the headlines.

But actual sales numbers probably tell the opposite story.

Perhaps it's time to focus on pimping Hyundai's or Kia's or whatever your backup is.

 

[Achtung!]

Uh, yes. sold out. Apple made announcement a couple of days ago saying the iPhone 7 Plus (all colours) was completely sold out worldwide, and the Jet Black is also completely sold out worldwide, so it would be completely pointless to stand outside unless you wanted a gold 7 or something.

Well, not completely pointless. Apple gave up to $100 gift cards to some of those waiting in line, and told them to go home.

The same thing happens every year. Apple always makes an announcement "couple of days ago" saying the iPhone X were completely sold out worldwide.

How is this anything new?

The only thing that's new is the small amount of people lining up to get the iPhone 7. The lines for the iPhone 7 are much smaller than the iPhone 6S and much much smaller than the iPhone 6.

Perhaps it's time to focus on pimping Hyundai's or Kia's or whatever your backup is.

I don't approve of both. I drive a Chevy Cruze, thank you very much.

 

[Kazukian]

Achtung, how much farther do you expect Samsung to drop?

Do you think their reputation is damaged as a result of the many injuries and destruction of property due to the fires and the unprecedented federally managed recall?

Seems like Apple is in good shape considering Samsung's massive screw up. The media is now picking up on other models of Samsung phones catching on fire.

 

[Eug]

The same thing happens every year. Apple always makes an announcement "couple of days ago" saying the iPhone X were completely sold out worldwide.

How is this anything new?

The only thing that's new is the small amount of people lining up to get the iPhone 7. The lines for the iPhone 7 are much smaller than the iPhone 6S and much much smaller than the iPhone 6.

No it isn't the same thing every year. They will have limited availability of units here and there in the stores (specific colours or the highest storage tier), but never have the entire line sold out (iPhone 7 Plus) worldwide on launch day. For example, with the 6s Plus, if you were willing to splurge and buy the highest storage tier model in silver or whatever, you could simply walk into a store and buy one.

Most likely they are supply constrained, but regardless, your statements are not correct.

 

[Kazukian]

Also, you've put a lot of effort into the posts today, can you imagine why you're perceived as a paid shill for Samsung?

And it seems your original post is just flat wrong, huh, Achtung?

Seems Samsung screwed the pooch on the recall

http://www.wsj.com/articles/samsungs-management-of-recall-wounds-companys-image-1473928872

Listening to the Vergecast now, they're talking about how Samsung is pretty well screwed, damage to the Note brand, and Samsung in general. Those images of burned houses, cars and people are now in the public consciousness. None of the staff is willing to use a current Note or it's replacement.

 

[Commodus]

The share price has nothing to do with what's really going on in a company's financials. They're just pieces of paper that don't even provide companies with any benefits. These short-term market swings are just the market's preconception of what's going on at a superficial level.

Wait a minute. You created this thread solely to crow about how Apple's share price was falling, and suddenly shares don't matter that much? Oh, wait, that's only because Apple's shares are up while Samsung's are down.

And yes, Apple often sends press releases crowing about iPhone sales, but one thing you conveniently forgot to mention: it also tends to say whether or not it'll have something for people in store. See the iPhone 6s launch for example: Apple said both models would be available for walk-in purchases. That's not true this year... even some regular models of the iPhone 7 are sold out (black and Jet Black, mainly).

The real question is whether this is because Apple was overly cautious and shipped fewer iPhones than expected, or because the device is just that popular. It did do a much better job of making the Plus model desirable this year.

 

[Eug]

They definitely underestimated Plus demand. Not a huge surprise though in retrospect though, since this is the first year that the Plus demand has outstripped regular iPhone demand. I think the reason for is that IMO the regular iPhone 7 truly is iterative. Yeah the SoC is great, but it loses a headphone jack. Pretty much everything you can do with an iPhone 7 you can do with a 6s (but not a 6).

This is not the case with the 7 Plus. The 7 Plus is significant upgrade over both the 6 Plus and the 7, so much so that people like me who normally like smaller phones have ordered the 7 Plus.

It will be interesting to see if the ratio holds in 2018 with the iPhone 8. I think both the 8 and 8 Plus will have 3 GB RAM, but Ming Chi Kuo believes that even in 2018, the Plus will be the only model with two lenses, partially due to parts supply constraints. However, he also believes the iPhone 8 Plus will have dual lens optical image stabilization, which I think will in part help keep interest in the 8 Plus, even for some geek 7 Plus owners. Thus, I think there's a strong chance the 8 Plus will still outsell the 8.