• Guest, The rules for the P & N subforum have been updated to prohibit "ad hominem" or personal attacks against other posters. See the full details in the post "Politics and News Rules & Guidelines."

Wall of silence broken at state's Muslim public school

SAWYER

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
16,745
40
91
http://www.startribune.com/local/17406054.html
If this was a Christian school or any other religion the ACLU and other groups would be screaming as loud as they can, why not in this situation? I think if you bend for one group, bend for all or none.
Recently, I wrote about Tarek ibn Ziyad Academy (TIZA), a K-8 charter school in Inver Grove Heights. Charter schools are public schools and by law must not endorse or promote religion.

Evidence suggests, however, that TIZA is an Islamic school, funded by Minnesota taxpayers.

TIZA has many characteristics that suggest a religious school. It shares the headquarters building of the Muslim American Society of Minnesota, whose mission is "establishing Islam in Minnesota." The building also houses a mosque. TIZA's executive director, Asad Zaman, is a Muslim imam, or religious leader, and its sponsor is an organization called Islamic Relief.

Students pray daily, the cafeteria serves halal food - permissible under Islamic law -- and "Islamic Studies" is offered at the end of the school day.

Zaman maintains that TIZA is not a religious school. He declined, however, to allow me to visit the school to see for myself, "due to the hectic schedule for statewide testing." But after I e-mailed him that the Minnesota Department of Education had told me that testing would not begin for several weeks, Zaman did not respond -- even to urgent calls and e-mails seeking comment before my first column on TIZA.

Now, however, an eyewitness has stepped forward. Amanda Getz of Bloomington is a substitute teacher. She worked as a substitute in two fifth-grade classrooms at TIZA on Friday, March 14. Her experience suggests that school-sponsored religious activity plays an integral role at TIZA.

Arriving on a Friday, the Muslim holy day, she says she was told that the day's schedule included a "school assembly" in the gym after lunch.

Before the assembly, she says she was told, her duties would include taking her fifth-grade students to the bathroom, four at a time, to perform "their ritual washing."

Afterward, Getz said, "teachers led the kids into the gym, where a man dressed in white with a white cap, who had been at the school all day," was preparing to lead prayer. Beside him, another man "was prostrating himself in prayer on a carpet as the students entered."

"The prayer I saw was not voluntary," Getz said. "The kids were corralled by adults and required to go to the assembly where prayer occurred."

Islamic Studies was also incorporated into the school day. "When I arrived, I was told 'after school we have Islamic Studies,' and I might have to stay for hall duty," Getz said. "The teachers had written assignments on the blackboard for classes like math and social studies. Islamic Studies was the last one -- the board said the kids were studying the Qu'ran. The students were told to copy it into their planner, along with everything else. That gave me the impression that Islamic Studies was a subject like any other."

After school, Getz's fifth-graders stayed in their classroom and the man in white who had led prayer in the gym came in to teach Islamic Studies. TIZA has in effect extended the school day -- buses leave only after Islamic Studies is over. Getz did not see evidence of other extra-curricular activity, except for a group of small children playing outside. Significantly, 77 percent of TIZA parents say that their "main reason for choosing TIZA ... was because of after-school programs conducted by various non-profit organizations at the end of the school period in the school building," according to a TIZA report. TIZA may be the only school in Minnesota with this distinction.

Why does the Minnesota Department of Education allow this sort of religious activity at a public school? According to Zaman, the department inspects TIZA regularly -- and has done so "numerous times" -- to ensure that it is not a religious school.

But the department's records document only three site visits to TIZA in five years -- two in 2003-04 and one in 2007, according to Assistant Commissioner Morgan Brown. None of the visits focused specifically on religious practices.
 

tvarad

Golden Member
Jun 25, 2001
1,130
0
0
Rainsford, most people understand that the issue of separation of church and state strikes a chord in every American. Get off your moderator high-horse and let the thread develop.


This post constitutes a Mod Call Out. Do it again and your posting privileges will be revoked.

Anandtech Senior Moderator
Red Dawn
 

Sinsear

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2007
6,435
79
91
Originally posted by: tvarad
Rainsford, most people understand that the issue of separation of church and state strikes a chord in every American. Get off your moderator high-horse and let the thread develop.
Uncalled for; Rainsford is one of the most level headed people around here.

As for the school: if this substitute is to be trusted, this is a potential ugly situation. It most definitely seems that they are endorsing and promoting a religion. If they want to continue to due this they should be required to become private, hence the cease of publice funds distributed to them. While I don't care about people practicing religion or praying, a school is the wrong environment for it.
 

MS13

Junior Member
Apr 15, 2006
16
0
0
We cannot criticize their religion, too risky if you know what I mean.
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
1
0
Originally posted by: MS13
We cannot criticize their religion, too risky if you know what I mean.
Funny.. but.. I do agree with you.. I looked at that lady in the article and imagined her being the subject of death threats from peaceful muslims already

 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,520
0
0
Originally posted by: tvarad
Rainsford, most people understand that the issue of separation of church and state strikes a chord in every American. Get off your moderator high-horse and let the thread develop.
This has nothing to do with the issue being discussed. If threads are going to develop, it tends to work better if they develop based on what P&N posters think rather than what somebody else thinks...thus the "original comment" requirement. And in any case, this is not the place to discuss it. If you don't like something about moderation or the posting rules, take it up in the "personal forum issues" forum.

Rainsford
AnandTech P&N Moderator
 

tvarad

Golden Member
Jun 25, 2001
1,130
0
0
Related article. As is mentioned there, these are the same folks who refuse to transport alcohol bearing passengers from Minnesota airport (what next, no headscarves on women, no taxi?).

It looks like the same obfuscatory tactics that are used by Islamic extremists in Europe to garner state funds (to further their agenda of raising a generation of Jihadists) is being deployed here too. I hope the state authorities nip this one in the bud before Islamotons capable of great damage like the London Tube bombers are graduated.
 

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,038
36
86
I really don't see a thing wrong with this if it's private school and as such doesn't receive funds any other private school would receive from the government (pick which level).

If this is indeed a public school, then one of two things needs to happen:

1.) It goes private.
2.) All other private schools get the access this school has received to funds.

Seems pretty straightforward to me...

Chuck
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
29,928
3,444
126
Originally posted by: dahunan
Is this who the school was named after?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tariq_ibn-Ziyad

I sure hope not or Americans are dumber than I thought.. or at least those in Minnesota Legislature have rough knuckles
Nice, it appears they have landed on our shore this time around. Yet only bigots, racists, and *phobes will ever complain about it - am I right?
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,542
260
126
Originally posted by: chucky2
I really don't see a thing wrong with this if it's private school and as such doesn't receive funds any other private school would receive from the government (pick which level).

If this is indeed a public school, then one of two things needs to happen:

1.) It goes private.
2.) All other private schools get the access this school has received to funds.

Seems pretty straightforward to me...

Chuck
In about the third sentence of the article it describes it as a public school.

As for those thinking the AClU will do something, they're about as effective as the sweat under my left testicle. If the case isn't about persecuting the old guard, I.e. The white man or christianity, the ACLU wan't nothing to do with it. You even now have cases where universities are removing crosses and other similar symbols from campus churches while installing muslim prayer bathing facilities. Absurdity knows no bounds.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,652
199
101
Sickening, if I lived in MN, I'd be outraged that my tax dollars were being used to fund some wacko cult. If they want to have a religious school, make it a private school, public money should not be used to fund these crazies.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,086
493
126
Originally posted by: tvarad
Related article. As is mentioned there, these are the same folks who refuse to transport alcohol bearing passengers from Minnesota airport (what next, no headscarves on women, no taxi?).

It looks like the same obfuscatory tactics that are used by Islamic extremists in Europe to garner state funds (to further their agenda of raising a generation of Jihadists) is being deployed here too. I hope the state authorities nip this one in the bud before Islamotons capable of great damage like the London Tube bombers are graduated.
Dont forget Muslim cab drivers were refusing to carry blind people because their seeing eye dogs were considered a filthy animal. Yes blind people were discriminated against. It took an uproar for our state officials to stop discrimination against blind people by Muslim cab drivers.

And on a related note Muslims here were\are refusing to handle pork products at Target when checking people out. Requiring a manager or somebody else to come down to handle the product. Eventhough the pork products are wrapped in plastic.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,183
60
91
This discussion should be locked because it is only a link with no discussion. How many times have people been warned.

However, I think the story is so powerful. Why should any state or municipality allow these conditions to exist. In Utah they have to build religious studies across the street for mormons wanting to go to what they call Seminary. Even though Seminary is a voluntary class it is not allowed to be held on the school grounds, and it is not paid for by the state in any way. Sounds like a double standard.
 

FuzzyBee

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2000
5,172
1
76
Originally posted by: piasabird
This discussion should be locked because it is only a link with no discussion. How many times have people been warned.
Maybe your browser clipped off the top of the post:
If this was a Christian school or any other religion the ACLU and other groups would be screaming as loud as they can, why not in this situation? I think if you bend for one group, bend for all or none.
 

FuzzyBee

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2000
5,172
1
76
Sounds to me like we're just following in the footsteps of Europe - it's better to let Islamists have their own schools than to try to get them to integrate into Western society.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,183
60
91
So what happens if they set up their own school and they start teaching that it is ok to chop off the heads of Infedels? You can not allow them complete freedom to teach hatred and murder of non-believers and expect the American public or the public money of whatever their country of occupation happens to be, to foot the bill for an indoctrination of Hate and Murder. There is good reason not to allow any public school to teach this sort of thing. It is bound to destroy any freedom loving society.
 

Socio

Golden Member
May 19, 2002
1,726
2
81
Originally posted by: piasabird
This discussion should be locked because it is only a link with no discussion. How many times have people been warned.

However, I think the story is so powerful. Why should any state or municipality allow these conditions to exist. In Utah they have to build religious studies across the street for mormons wanting to go to what they call Seminary. Even though Seminary is a voluntary class it is not allowed to be held on the school grounds, and it is not paid for by the state in any way. Sounds like a double standard.
It is a double standard which everyone seems to turn a blind eye to and as a result expect to see a whole lot more of it.



 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
1
0
Originally posted by: piasabird
So what happens if they set up their own school and they start teaching that it is ok to chop off the heads of Infedels? You can not allow them complete freedom to teach hatred and murder of non-believers and expect the American public or the public money of whatever their country of occupation happens to be, to foot the bill for an indoctrination of Hate and Murder. There is good reason not to allow any public school to teach this sort of thing. It is bound to destroy any freedom loving society.
Give them more funding and free flight lessons and proceed to bury our heads in the sand
 

Socio

Golden Member
May 19, 2002
1,726
2
81
Originally posted by: piasabird
So what happens if they set up their own school and they start teaching that it is ok to chop off the heads of Infedels? You can not allow them complete freedom to teach hatred and murder of non-believers and expect the American public or the public money of whatever their country of occupation happens to be, to foot the bill for an indoctrination of Hate and Murder. There is good reason not to allow any public school to teach this sort of thing. It is bound to destroy any freedom loving society.
Even private schools have to adhere to teaching standards I just hope to hell the whatever government branch is supposed to oversee private schools pays special attention to private Islamic schools, pays lots of surprise visits to see exactly what these kids are being taught. If they are being taught lies, and hate in any school it should immediately loose its license and be shut down, and criminal charges brought against the facility.

You know actually the more I think about it I think Islam should be treated as a special case, it should be viewed as high risk religion and be mandatory that all Muslim children must attend public or private non-Islamic schools in order to open their eyes and allow them to think for themselves and as well as think as a Westerner. Plus this would be our best bet to curb them from being indoctrinated in to hate and keep that hate from being passed from generation to generation.

There is already a covert investigation underway of Muslim churches in the US and the preliminary reports say 3 in 4 U.S. mosques preach anti-Western jihadist hate

An undercover survey of more than 100 mosques and Islamic schools in America has exposed widespread radicalism, including the alarming finding that 3 in 4 Islamic centers are hotbeds of anti-Western extremism, WND has learned. The Mapping Shari'a Project, sponsored by the Washington-based Center for Security Policy, has trained former counterintelligence and counterterrorism agents from the FBI, CIA and U.S. military, who are skilled in Arabic and Urdu, to conduct undercover reconnaissance at some 2,300 mosques and Islamic centers and schools across the country.

?So far of 100 mapped, 75 should be on a watchlist,? an official familiar with the project said.
If they are doing it in mosques you can bet your ass they are doing it in Islamic schools and that far exceeds any freedom or right they have.
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
1
0
^^^ I think just the name of the school seems to indicate something other than glorifying peace
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,547
0
76
If we assume that the article is accurate when describing this school as "Public," and the testimony of the teacher is also truthful, then I'd say this needs to be remedied very damn quickly -- no school like that should EVER receive state OR national government funds, of any sort.

Anyone find more/better links to collaborate this one?
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY