Wake Up America!

JSFLY

Golden Member
Mar 24, 2006
1,068
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Do these figures disturb you as well?

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://www.cia.gov/cia/public............k.html"><a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://www.cia.gov/cia/public............7rank.html"><a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://www.cia.gov/cia/public............/2187rank.html"><a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://www.cia.gov/cia/public............rder/2187rank.html"><a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://www.cia.gov/cia/public............ankorder/2187rank.html"><a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/fa...ok/rankorder/2187rank.html"><a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/rankorder/2187rank.html"><a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/rankorder/2187rank.html"><a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/rankorder/2187rank.html"><a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/rankorder/2187rank.html">https://www.cia.gov/cia/public............a></a></a></a></a></a></a></a></a></a>

Look at number 150 on this ranking of the world's account balances as of oct 17/2006.

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/
National Debt Clock.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._public_debt
National Debt Wiki

Link from Xstatic:
http://www.nbc17.com/money/10181493/detail.html

-Their basic message is this: If the United States government conducts business as usual over the next few decades, a national debt that is already $8.5 trillion could reach $46 trillion or more, adjusted for inflation.
-A hole that big could paralyze the U.S. economy; just the interest payments on a debt that big would be as much as all the taxes the government collects today, according to some projections.
-And every year that nothing is done about it, Walker says, the problem grows by $2 trillion to $3 trillion.


Apparently we are the poorest nation in the world. And with the never ending iraqi war and the Social Security liabilities for baby boomers on the horizon, this is only going to get worse. At one point, other countries will question themselves before handing out a loan to us, and we may face a crisis worse than the great depression.

 

AccruedExpenditure

Diamond Member
May 12, 2001
6,957
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81
In all seriousness the current account debt isn't that big of an issue and will correct itself in a painful abrupt manner!
 
Jun 27, 2005
19,251
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Perhaps our leaders will realize this and stop spending so much of our money.

*gzzt*






*szkk*



Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah :laugh:
 

flexy

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2001
8,464
155
106
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Perhaps our leaders will realize this and stop spending so much of our money.

Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah :laugh:

uhm...our "leaders" ? :) And who votes them into office ? :)

 

flexy

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2001
8,464
155
106
hold on..the debt in relation to the GDP.

Of course BOLIVIA or LAOS has a way lower GDP than the usa...and according to link #3 the debt is something like 65% of the GDP. ...well..uhm..is this good now or bad ? So how does this look in terms of debt <---> GDP ?

How big is china's GDP, how big is whoevers GDP ? etc.etc..
 

flexy

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2001
8,464
155
106
>>>
According to the CIA's World Factbook, this meant that the U.S. public debt was the 35th largest in the world by percentage of GDP. In absolute value, it is easily the largest.
>>>
 

JSFLY

Golden Member
Mar 24, 2006
1,068
0
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Originally posted by: flexy
hold on..the debt in relation to the GDP.

Of course BOLIVIA or LAOS has a way lower GDP than the usa...and according to link #3 the debt is something like 65% of the GDP. ...well..uhm..is this good now or bad ? So how does this look in terms of debt <---> GDP ?

How big is china's GDP, how big is whoevers GDP ? etc.etc..

China:
$8.859 trillion (2005 est.)
$2.225 trillion (2005 est.) Exchange rate
<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ch.html"><a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ch.html">https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ch.html</a></a>
 

Xstatic1

Diamond Member
Sep 20, 2006
9,140
50
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this reminds me of an article i read yesterday. here's the entire article, otherwise this is an excerpt:

What they don't talk about is a dirty little secret everyone in Washington knows, or at least should. The vast majority of economists and budget analysts agree: The ship of state is on a disastrous course, and will founder on the reefs of economic disaster if nothing is done to correct it.

There's a good reason politicians don't like to talk about the nation's long-term fiscal prospects. The subject is short on political theatrics and long on complicated economics, scary graphs and very big numbers. It reveals serious problems and offers no easy solutions. Anybody who wanted to deal with it seriously would have to talk about raising taxes and cutting benefits, nasty nostrums that might doom any candidate who prescribed them.

"There's no sexiness to it," laments Leita Hart-Fanta, an accountant who has just heard Walker's pitch. She suggests recruiting a trusted celebrity -- maybe Oprah -- to sell fiscal responsibility to the American people.

Walker doesn't want to make balancing the federal government's books sexy -- he just wants to make it politically palatable. He has committed to touring the nation through the 2008 elections, talking to anybody who will listen about the fiscal black hole Washington has dug itself, the "demographic tsunami" that will come when the baby boom generation begins retiring and the recklessness of borrowing money from foreign lenders to pay for the operation of the U.S. government.

Their basic message is this: If the United States government conducts business as usual over the next few decades, a national debt that is already $8.5 trillion could reach $46 trillion or more, adjusted for inflation.

A hole that big could paralyze the U.S. economy; according to some projections, just the interest payments on a debt that big would be as much as all the taxes the government collects today.

And every year that nothing is done about it, Walker said, the problem grows by $2 trillion to $3 trillion.
 

Squisher

Lifer
Aug 17, 2000
21,207
66
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Originally posted by: flexy
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Perhaps our leaders will realize this and stop spending so much of our money.

Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah :laugh:

uhm...our "leaders" ? :) And who votes them into office ? :)

And, you'll never get someone voted into office whose main agenda is reducing the nation's debt.

Why? You mention social security reform, medicare reform, and general spending reform and you have stepped on the third rail of politics. What is it, 75% of seniors in this country vote?

 

bloodugly

Golden Member
Apr 27, 2004
1,188
0
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At least half of the voters in the US are totally retarded, and easily influenced by commercial ads for candidates. Lets inact mandatory IQ testing for voters, and then maybe things will change. Until then, good luck. I realize this will never happen, its just a thought....as well as my thoughts on having people sterilized so they can't have 10 kids despite being unemployed/mentally challenged pieces of shxt.

Pardon my spelling, its late :)

The fact a dumbfxck like our current president could be elected twice says alot about America. The guy can hardly speak without seeming stupid...

I have no party preference, so don't even go there if you want to bash me. I'm just saddened by the fact that there's so many brilliant minds in the world, yet none of them are running things.
 

Demon-Xanth

Lifer
Feb 15, 2000
20,551
2
81
Person A:
I'm going to give you $10

Person B:
I'm going to take $10 from you

Who are you going to vote for?
This is the downside to democracy.
 

erub

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2000
5,481
0
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Viewed alternately as a percentage of the GDP, the national debt rose sharply during World War II, reaching about 122% of GDP in 1946. As soon as the conflict ended, the debt began declining, reaching a postwar low of 32.6% of GDP in 1981. The debt then started rising again and peaked at 67.3% of GDP in 1996. It then dropped to 57.4% of GDP by 2001 but then began rising again, reaching 64.3% of GDP by 2005. It should be noted that the debt of United States is on par with the debt of other developed countries, such as Germany and France. In any case, all of the above debt figures can be found in Historical Table 7.1 of the 2007 U.S. Budget. [13]

This is the figure that matters. As long as the economy is still growing, it shouldn't crush us too much..

The debt equates to $28,412 per head of the U.S. population, or $58,390 per head of the U.S. working population [16].

simple to solve this problem, saying no one can buy a new car until they pay their $28,412 into the system..you'll half the debt in half in no time. As far as the people to young to work go, we can get their share later (no cars for them after they finish school until they pay!), and the old people -- we'll just take it out of their SS checks (they will be hungry for awhile..hey, the people in the pre-1920s did it without SS, they should have saved on their own in an IRA/401k anyway)

vote for me!!!
 

Demon-Xanth

Lifer
Feb 15, 2000
20,551
2
81
Originally posted by: erub
simple to solve this problem, saying no one can buy a new car until they pay their $28,412 into the system..you'll half the debt in half in no time. As far as the people to young to work go, we can get their share later (no cars for them after they finish school until they pay!), and the old people -- we'll just take it out of their SS checks (they will be hungry for awhile..hey, the people in the pre-1920s did it without SS, they should have saved on their own in an IRA/401k anyway)

vote for me!!!

Goes great until you start putting auto companies out of buisness and those people out of work. :)

The debt is something that is going to take alot of little things over a very long time because it was caused by alot of little things over a very long time. If taxes were raised 1% and spending was cut 10%, it'd go a long way.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,031
33,013
136
As a percentage of GDP the US national debt has not reached too concerning a level yet. Many other 1st world nations have much higer percentages with much lower rates of GDP growth than the US. The boomer population is aging and will retire soon, however there appears to be more than enough young people to fill in the employment gaps and tax/ss (which should be terminated this generation anyway) obligations.

It is extremely unlikely that continued credit will fail to be extended to the US as long as we don't default on interest payments (which has never happened). Spending does need to be cut in a numer of areas to stabalize the debt levels at least.
 

Stunt

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2002
9,717
2
0
There's absolutely nothing wrong with being leveraged, all that matters is your Debt to GDP level. The US is much lower than most industrialized nations and even the deficit is much smaller relative to GDP than Germany, France, Italy and Japan.

Here's an interesting statistic:
World Debt: $36.88 trillion
US Debt: $8.837 trillion
US has 24% of the world's debt

World GDP: $43.07 trillion
US GDP: $12.49 trillion
US has 29% of the world's GDP
 

Stunt

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2002
9,717
2
0
It's the same idea as having person A with a $200,000 mortgage but making $100,000 a year. But a $200,000 debt for person B making $20,000 is just plain insane. It's all relative.
 

Demon-Xanth

Lifer
Feb 15, 2000
20,551
2
81
Originally posted by: Stunt
It's the same idea as having person A with a $200,000 mortgage but making $100,000 a year. But a $200,000 debt for person B making $40,000 is just plain insane. It's all relative.

Person B is on par for California

Post edit:
okay, that's insane
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,055
3,408
126
Originally posted by: Stunt
There's absolutely nothing wrong with being leveraged, all that matters is your Debt to GDP level. The US is much lower than most industrialized nations and even the deficit is much smaller relative to GDP than Germany, France, Italy and Japan.
You are correct to a point there Stunt. However, your post is heavilly biased and therefore it is misleading. To provide references (source):

Country: Debt/GDP ratio
Japan: 158% with their horrible economy in the last decade or so
Italy 109%
Germany: 67%.
France: 66%.
USA: 65%

As you can see, two of your examples are clearly worse than the US. But two of your examples are nearly identical to the US. And then you forgot some of the other comparisons of industrialized nations:

Country: Debt/GDP ratio
Switzerland: 52%
UK: 43%
Canada: 35%
Australia: 16%

So your post made it seem like the US is quite low. I'm just here to point out that the US Debt/GDP ratio is, in fact, near the median. It is neither good, nor is it bad.

The bad thing is that non-military spending of the US is up 44% in the last 6 years. Then add in the military spending and the amount of spending that we have done recently is just rediculously high. And overall, the Debt/GDP ratio is going up (longer term, multi-year view, graph). Sure, it has been worse during WW2 and just after, but we are approaching the second worst ratio ever.

My opinion: our debt is acceptable now due to our large GDP, but the debt/GDP ratio is historically on the higher end and it is going in the wrong direction.