Wait... we can 'lose' a plane in this day and age?

[Genx87]

OP: The ocean is huge and at 35,000 feet at 500 mph the debris field can be huge. All we have is a general idea where the plane is. Also it isnt uncommon for planes to lose radio contact over the ocean.

 

[Baked]

Finding the black box would be like combing for a needle on the beach. Have fun.

 

[daniel1113]

Originally posted by: rh71
The TWA tragedy over LI took quite a while to investigate and piece together... so long that I went back years later to find out the results. How many of you know the true cause of that one without searching?

This will probably be worse.

Wasn't the TWA explosion caused by a spark near fumes from the fuel in one of the main tanks? I believe it led to a complete overhaul of the wiring around the fuel tanks, as well as a new system for minimizing the fumes that would build up in the tanks.

 

[hiromizu]

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: rh71
The TWA tragedy over LI took quite a while to investigate and piece together... so long that I went back years later to find out the results. How many of you know the true cause of that one without searching?

This will probably be worse.

Wasn't the TWA explosion caused by a spark near fumes from the fuel in one of the main tanks? I believe it led to a complete overhaul of the wiring around the fuel tanks, as well as a new system for minimizing the fumes that would build up in the tanks.

I dunno. I heard it was a missle but the news debunct that idea. A friend of mine was right there when it happened - type of guy that wouldn't lie about things like that. Weird.

 

[Poulsonator]

Originally posted by: hiromizu

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: rh71
The TWA tragedy over LI took quite a while to investigate and piece together... so long that I went back years later to find out the results. How many of you know the true cause of that one without searching?

This will probably be worse.

Wasn't the TWA explosion caused by a spark near fumes from the fuel in one of the main tanks? I believe it led to a complete overhaul of the wiring around the fuel tanks, as well as a new system for minimizing the fumes that would build up in the tanks.

I dunno. I heard it was a missle but the news debunct that idea. A friend of mine was right there when it happened - type of guy that wouldn't lie about things like that. Weird.

A lot of witnesses reported the same thing.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Originally posted by: guyver01

Originally posted by: StinkyPinky
I think this is a fair question, and perhaps something the media needs to ask. These people aren't idiots so I'm sure there is a reason why they can't find it, but I'd like to know what it is.

GPS... telemetry.... transponders.... all that stuff needs power.

if there's a fire or explosion in an avionics compartment, or an engine... the stuff won't get power... so youre not gonna have an exact spot.... just a point of origin or last known coordinates.... and you begin your search from there.

if a plane is travelling at 35,000 feet, and loses power... it can glide to a crash in the ocean 50,100,500 miles, etc, from its last known position... you dont just lose power and drop like a rock.

Except their is a ram air generator on most planes that can be deployed in the event that all electricl power is lost in the plane. IT is a Turbine that drops from the fuselage and the moving air spins a propeller which in turns turns a generator providing for some power. It is mechanically activated.

 

[daniel1113]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: guyver01

Originally posted by: StinkyPinky
I think this is a fair question, and perhaps something the media needs to ask. These people aren't idiots so I'm sure there is a reason why they can't find it, but I'd like to know what it is.

GPS... telemetry.... transponders.... all that stuff needs power.

if there's a fire or explosion in an avionics compartment, or an engine... the stuff won't get power... so youre not gonna have an exact spot.... just a point of origin or last known coordinates.... and you begin your search from there.

if a plane is travelling at 35,000 feet, and loses power... it can glide to a crash in the ocean 50,100,500 miles, etc, from its last known position... you dont just lose power and drop like a rock.

Except their is a ram air generator on most planes that can be deployed in the event that all electricl power is lost in the plane. IT is a Turbine that drops from the fuselage and the moving air spins a propeller which in turns turns a generator providing for some power. It is mechanically activated.

Which is completely worthless if the electric system is fried. Still.

 

[compuwiz1]

It makes no sense if they knew the weather was that bad that they would choose to fly into it anyways. Where was taking precaution? Why was the flight not rerouted? There are going to be some tough questions that need to be answered by the airline.

Another thought, since I don't understand, but it looks like lots of the plane is in tiny pieces. So, was that from impact with the ocean at high speed, or perhaps, was the plane blown up in flight?

It also looks like the beacons on the black boxes are going to be out of range for recovery because of the depth of the water there, about 21,000 feet.

 

[hiromizu]

Originally posted by: compuwiz1
It makes no sense if they knew the weather was that bad that they would choose to fly into it anyways. Where was taking precaution? Why was the flight not rerouted? There are going to be some tough questions that need to be answered by the airline.

Another thought, since I don't understand, but it looks like lots of the plane is in tiny pieces. So, was that from impact with the ocean at high speed, or perhaps, was the plane blown up in flight?

It also looks like the beacons on the black boxes are going to be out of range for recovery because of the depth of the water there, about 21,000 feet.

It could have been smushed into little pieces when it got hit in cruising altitude. It's quite possible that a mountain or a very dense cloud was in the path, which can literally destroy an airplane of that size.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: hiromizu

Originally posted by: compuwiz1
It makes no sense if they knew the weather was that bad that they would choose to fly into it anyways. Where was taking precaution? Why was the flight not rerouted? There are going to be some tough questions that need to be answered by the airline.

Another thought, since I don't understand, but it looks like lots of the plane is in tiny pieces. So, was that from impact with the ocean at high speed, or perhaps, was the plane blown up in flight?

It also looks like the beacons on the black boxes are going to be out of range for recovery because of the depth of the water there, about 21,000 feet.

It could have been smushed into little pieces when it got hit in cruising altitude. It's quite possible that a mountain or a very dense cloud was in the path, which can literally destroy an airplane of that size.

Lots of 35,000 foot mountains out in the atlantic?

 

[RagingBITCH]

Originally posted by: compuwiz1
It makes no sense if they knew the weather was that bad that they would choose to fly into it anyways. Where was taking precaution? Why was the flight not rerouted? There are going to be some tough questions that need to be answered by the airline.

Another thought, since I don't understand, but it looks like lots of the plane is in tiny pieces. So, was that from impact with the ocean at high speed, or perhaps, was the plane blown up in flight?

It also looks like the beacons on the black boxes are going to be out of range for recovery because of the depth of the water there, about 21,000 feet.

Um, planes fly through turbulence all the time. If it's a huge storm you're having to fly miles and miles outside the flight path just to get back into it. If it's normal, why not fly through it?

 

[RagingBITCH]

Hmm, notice the OP hasn't responded back since she got thoroughly owned?

 

[compuwiz1]

Originally posted by: RagingBITCH

Originally posted by: compuwiz1
It makes no sense if they knew the weather was that bad that they would choose to fly into it anyways. Where was taking precaution? Why was the flight not rerouted? There are going to be some tough questions that need to be answered by the airline.

Another thought, since I don't understand, but it looks like lots of the plane is in tiny pieces. So, was that from impact with the ocean at high speed, or perhaps, was the plane blown up in flight?

It also looks like the beacons on the black boxes are going to be out of range for recovery because of the depth of the water there, about 21,000 feet.

Um, planes fly through turbulence all the time. If it's a huge storm you're having to fly miles and miles outside the flight path just to get back into it. If it's normal, why not fly through it?

That kind of weather is known to be extremely dangerous. They would have had this information prior to takeoff. That weather was more than just "ordinary turbulence" and at the first sign of it a prudent person would have diverted the flight.

 

[hiromizu]

maybe it was wind sheer, which can sheer a plane apart

 

[compuwiz1]

Originally posted by: hiromizu
maybe it was wind sheer, which can sheer a plane apart

riiiigghhtt...... :roll:

 

[SunnyD]

Sure we can, provided it falls off the treadmill.

 

[coolVariable]

Well - I am sorry to tell all the plane engineers on here that the A330-200 does have one backup system that relies on batteries, in addition to the 3 other electrical systems which are turbine driven.
There is also a backup system that is mechanical. wich gives the pilot control of the rudder and the horizontal stabilizer.
This is only intended to make it possible for the pilots to fly straight and level, so they can reboot/restart/fix at least one electronic system. Mechanical backup is not designed to fly and navigate the aircraft (even in still air).

And it sounds like the plane did have a locator on board: the system supposedly is called ADS-B transmits the plane's position, altitude, groundspeed and ROC/ROD at half-second intervals continuously during the flight on 1090MHz.

 

[zebano]

Originally posted by: Phokus
I'd like to know why the plane didn't try to go around the storm, wtf. Their computers should pick that stuff up, right?

Their computers do pick that stuff up but probably couldn't come up with a path around the storm(s).

 

[AMCRambler]

Originally posted by: Savij
It's called a transponder. It does everything you want it to do and more. Like your ass vibrator, it's great until you have an electrical problem.

Hahaha. That's going in the sig.

Edit: That transponder will work great right up until the plane loses it's electrical system or comes apart at altitude. then you've got a 500mph cloud of debris that isn't going to drop straight down as it falls the 30,000 feet into the ocean. It's going to be spread out over a wide area.

 

[Linflas]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: hiromizu

Originally posted by: compuwiz1
It makes no sense if they knew the weather was that bad that they would choose to fly into it anyways. Where was taking precaution? Why was the flight not rerouted? There are going to be some tough questions that need to be answered by the airline.

Another thought, since I don't understand, but it looks like lots of the plane is in tiny pieces. So, was that from impact with the ocean at high speed, or perhaps, was the plane blown up in flight?

It also looks like the beacons on the black boxes are going to be out of range for recovery because of the depth of the water there, about 21,000 feet.

It could have been smushed into little pieces when it got hit in cruising altitude. It's quite possible that a mountain or a very dense cloud was in the path, which can literally destroy an airplane of that size.

Lots of 35,000 foot mountains out in the atlantic?

Actually there are but they are about 4/5's submerged.

 

[GTaudiophile]

Well, I think it is worth noting that lightning can and has punched holes in aircraft:

Example

Closer

Fire hazard aside, a hole like this would at the very least cause cabin decompression.

And in the event of decompression, the pilot must descend to about 10,000 feet.

Imagine the above happening in a split-second during a massive thunderstorm with tons of turbulence.

A rapid descent could get out of control.


Just a theory.

 

[HardcoreRobot]

Originally posted by: hiromizu
maybe it was wind sheer, which can sheer a plane apart

seriously, where do you come up with this stuff? what qualifies you to make such a statement? i have a hard time taking you seriously to begin with let alone if you can't even spell *shear* correctly.

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: coolVariable

Originally posted by: sao123

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Okay, let's give them a "last known location" 10 minutes before the actual crash. Or was it 5 minutes? Or 1 minute? 10 minutes of uncertainty, at 600mph, is a huge area. Let's narrow it down & assume that its course didn't change by more than 45 degrees. Under that assumption, 600mph, up to 10 minutes, that leaves an area of 7853 square miles.
For the sake of reference, that's 90% the size of the entire state of New Jersey.

7853 <<<<<<<<<<<< 41,100,000

these guys dont even know which side of the atlantic to look...
it would seem to me that this type 0f hint would be at least SOMEWHAT useful.


its one thing to look for a needle in a haystack, but if you can eliminate 99.99980487% of the haystack to look in, that is a pretty good headstart.

That's what I was saying earlier.
But all the rocket scientists here obviously know better.

I think you missed the point. It wasn't that such knowledge doesn't narrow down the search area, but 10 minutes (as you stated earlier; prior to knowledge of the ADS-B transmitter transmitting every 1/2 second) is a HUGE area to comb! You seemed to be implying that "hey, if they knew where it was 10 minutes before it went down, it should be easy to find" - mathematically, I showed that if you knew where it was 10 minutes before it went down, you still have an area nearly the size of the state of NJ to search.

 

[UlricT]

Originally posted by: hiromizu
Is it possible that the plane got lost in a pretty thick cloud and hasn't come out of it?

stop making me laugh in so many threads troll.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: dainthomas
The ocean's pretty friggin' huge.