wacom tablet/pen versus iPad + Stylus?

[Homerboy]

I have a budding 10.5yr old artist in the house and she has been drawing in GIMP with a normal mouse and also drawing on the iPad using her finger.

I really would like to get her something "more" where she isn't really encumbered by those limited input devices, but I can't decide between getting a Wacom tablet/Pen or just get her a stylus to use on the iPad.

Certainly the Stylus is the cheaper of the options I guess, versus a low-end $80 tablet/Pen.

suggestions?

 

[zink77]

You don't need to sink a lot of money into anything if your daughter is not (yet) serious about art. A good artist will make good art DESPITE their tools. Any cheap tablet+pen is better overall then ipad for an artist.

You have to understand that the tools don't make a good artist if she doesn't understand any of the theory and how to think about her own art. I speak from experience. To become a really good artist you eventually have to understand the how and why behind art or else you will be limited in the kinds of things you can draw and be unable to understand why your drawings 'look off'. You start to develop 'artists eye' your able to see flaws in things that no non-artist can because you do so for a living.

If you want to splurge I'd get this:

http://www.ncix.com/products/?sku=91031&vpn=CTH680&manufacture=Wacom&promoid=1485

Anything more then $200 is a waste until she's shown you she's comitted. Remember a good artist will find a way to create and draw given limited toolset. You should introduce her to www.deviantart.com

Lots of great artists there.

Anything more is a waste until she is older and has proven to you that she's sunk a lot of time into being an artist. To get good at art you have to draw a lot. No need for anything fancy until she's chosen that as her path.

The idea that the 'input' options are limiting her art is incorrect. All you need is a tablet + a decent basic sketching program.

Get her a copy of Corel Painter or the lite version, it's what the pro's eventually use.

http://www.corel.com/corel/product/index.jsp?pid=prod5090087

 

[corkyg]

Zink77 makes several good points. Getting a stylus for the iPad is a very cheap enhancement. I use one all the time on tablet or smartphone simply because my fingertips are too inaccurate and typing is very difficult. A stylus can be had for less than $10.

 

[Homerboy]

Eh? I don't see any post from Zinc77.... That's odd.
What were his/her points?

Maybe I can get her a Stylus for St. Nicks coming up on the cheap, and then if she takes to that make a bigger investment with the Wacom.

Ironically, we have a couple of friends that have "commissioned" her to draw some pictures for them for upcoming holiday gifts -- and she needs some way to more easily and better create the drawings (she's a professional!)

 

[Homerboy]

That's weird. NOW I see Zinc77's post.

 

[Homerboy]

Oh I agree -- I'm not saying that she's "limited" by the tools. in fact I think she does amazing well given the tools (both electronic and "traditional" that she has at her disposal. When she draws on the PC, she complains of a heavy mouse -- too big for her hand. Unable to draw steadily with it etc etc. Which I think are all valid arguments.

Obviously, with better, more "designed for the job at hand" tools, any person can do that job "better". With better tools she will be encouraged to do it more too -- it will be more enjoyable to her.

I'm looking to give her options (without breaking the bank) and she LOVES to create and play on the computer -- all facets of it. She toys with GIMP as her primary drawing program.

Like I said too, some of our friends love her esthetic and want her to do some "commissioned" work for them for holiday gifts. I want her to be able to churn out her best work possible and to do that I'd like her to be able to use ideal tools. (without investing loads of money)

I think I am going to get her a stylus to mess around on the iPad for now (cheap) and then for Christmas look into a Wacom (sub $100) to get her started down a more "professional" path

Some of her works using the heavy/big mouse:

and of course more traditional mediums:

 

[_Rick_]

I think getting her a decent set of paper and physical tools will be more appreciated than a tablet, unless she's hellbent on learning photoshop.
But no tablet (not an Intuos, and not the ones with screens underneath) will replicate the feel and finesse that you get with charcoal, oil, pastels, different hardness pencils, different paper, wood, linen, etc.
A tablet is just one more medium, and one that doesn't have a lot of direct tactile/haptic feedback. Of course, in the long run an A5 or even A4 Intuos is going to be cheaper than continually replacing the consumables for the other means - but I'd argue that you do not learn as well with one, as you do with other media.

Actually a flat-bed scanner (if you don't have one yet) might be a better way to get her to use image processing software. When she's mastered importing a scan and editing that to her liking in a digital manner, then it becomes sensible to transition to a stylus, as only then does it come into its real usefulness.

 

[Homerboy]

I think getting her a decent set of paper and physical tools will be more appreciated than a tablet, unless she's hellbent on learning photoshop.
But no tablet (not an Intuos, and not the ones with screens underneath) will replicate the feel and finesse that you get with charcoal, oil, pastels, different hardness pencils, different paper, wood, linen, etc.
A tablet is just one more medium, and one that doesn't have a lot of direct tactile/haptic feedback. Of course, in the long run an A5 or even A4 Intuos is going to be cheaper than continually replacing the consumables for the other means - but I'd argue that you do not learn as well with one, as you do with other media.

Actually a flat-bed scanner (if you don't have one yet) might be a better way to get her to use image processing software. When she's mastered importing a scan and editing that to her liking in a digital manner, then it becomes sensible to transition to a stylus, as only then does it come into its real usefulness.

She uses "traditional" mediums as well. Mostly pencil and paper. Sometimes just a ballpoint pen when it's laying around. She LOVES the "electronic mediums" though. Even outside "drawing" on the PC, she loves to create (Mindcraft ... even Building cities and designing houses in The Sims)

We do have a flatbed scanner. I've worked with her on several occasions where she takes a pencil/paper sketch and scans it in. Loads the image into GIMP and colors/enhances it.

 

[gorobei]

you can find wacom graphires and bamboos or even older intuos on ebay for anywhere form $20 to $40. new intuos for $70 on amazon or newegg.

if she gets serious later on you can think about a used surface pro, having the digitzer built into a screen makes a world of difference. if gimp gets too confining look into sketchbook pro from autodesk(~$60).

 

[M0RPH]

I like to draw and I once had a Wacom pen tablet I played around with. I found it awkward that you are drawing on this tablet on your desk, while the output is up on the screen. It seems like it would be so much better to draw on a tablet like the Surface where you are drawing on the screen and your output is right there beneath your pen. This makes a world of difference, so I'm not sure why people are still recommending those Wacom drawing tablets.

I would get a pen for your iPad until you can get a Surface, which is supposed to be much better for drawing.

 

[gorobei]

i was browsing cintiq alternatives and it seems monoprice is carrying some cheaper digitzer displays.
http://blog.drawn.ca/post/38741581411/the-yiynova-msp19u-cintiq-alternative-swings-for-the
http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=113&cp_id=11314&cs_id=1131401&p_id=10707&seq=1&format=2
19" 1440x900
battery powered pen however.

 

[yhelothar]

I would get her an old used convertible tablet on ebay that has the Wacom digitizer. You could get one for $80 on ebay. It'll be far more intuitive to use than the Wacom without the screen. I bought one of those for my gf and she hated using it because it felt so unintuitive.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-Thinkpa...22507594?pt=Laptops_Nov05&hash=item461656f24a

 

[Imaginer]

For her age, and not breaking bank, a thin tipped capacitive stylus pen will do if you are in the budget realm.

Of course, to be better at art, half the battle is understanding composition, style, perspective, and the mediums at hand as well as all theories. The other half is practice. The tools will ultimately determine how much distance one can take their skill level - much like a performing racing car versus a standard commuter.

Still, the only other bridge I can think of from touch finger art with an iPad is quite possibly the Venue 8 Pro (not bank breaking like the Wacom enabled Surface Pro) but has the optional pen that eliminates disconnects that exists from standard drawing digitizers that connect to a computer. Wacom also makes styluses for the iPad too, albeit battery powered - thus being heavier than their non-battery powered solutions.

Hardware is only HALF of the solution though. Painter Lite can mimic and emulate traditional mediums at a very cheap cost. Art Rage also does this too (though the brush options aren't as extensive as Painter). While GIMP is a good free image manipulator, it does not compare to Painter and Art Rage. Both are more apt to making things from scratch and "draw" better than GIMP.

If she is drawing and painting alot, these tools can give her all the practice she needs, without spending quite a bit of money (and cleanup) on traditional mediums - while allowing her art to be stored without taking physical space and is preserved much longer. That is the BIGGEST benefit of digital creation. Then if she wants to test herself, break out the canvas and let the 'translated' skills of Painter Lite and/or Art Rage come to test (those programs near replicate the mixing feeling and painting feeling and have a better chance of translating to physical mediums than GIMP does).

And of course, there are plenty of online videos for instruction. Even better if said video is side by side on the screen while she paints and draws. Hence ultimately, despite being a VERY EXPENSIVE upfront cost solution, a Surface Pro would be something that will last for years to come and allow for more extensive upward growth. But I don't think this is within your budget at the time being - but it is well equivalent to the amount for any paints, canvases, and physical mediums.

Since you have a computer already, let her try an inexpensive Wacom USB digitizer. But also look into Painter Lite and Art Rage, she will appreciate the near replication of art tools on those programs versus GIMP.

 

[_Rick_]

This makes a world of difference, so I'm not sure why people are still recommending those Wacom drawing tablets.

The difference is in the precision, resolution, abstraction and pressure sensitivity, as well as surface quality.

Abstraction especially is important, as it allows you to change resolution on the input, but not on the screen, which really helps with the larger tablets. While you might claim the abstraction makes it less intuitive, it does make it more powerful.
Different tips and the optimized surface make for a better feel.

Getting the same pen ability with a screen underneath that an Intuos gives you in A4 is going to be around 10 times as expensive. Capacitive styli are completely useless - no feel, no pressure sensitivity - just a slightly finer finger.

(Note: I've used an A4 Intuos, Thinkpad X60 convertible, Galaxy Note2 and cheap A6 tablets. The physical pen alone, and the interchangeable tips of the Intuos made it much more useful over the smaller pens of the other tablets.)

A proper workflow starts out with an on-paper draft anyway, which is then scanned, and re-worked on the computer. There's very little point in doing an initial sketch on anything but paper.

 

[Imaginer]

A proper workflow starts out with an on-paper draft anyway, which is then scanned, and re-worked on the computer. There's very little point in doing an initial sketch on anything but paper.

With the Surface Pro and the Cintiq Companion (and computers with the Cintiq), one can directly sketch and it is very much viable where there is not a need for the intermediate step of paper sketching. It also saves desk room, paper, and the need for a flatbed or feed scanner.

I have done initial sketches with my Surface Pro. Granted not much, as I have been occupied with other tasks on the tablet PC and elsewhere. It works great. Even better as I grabbed the Manga Studio 5 deal on Amazon's Gold Box offers. There is some problems if the pen to screen isn't calibrated right for your hand though, which is strongly encouraged.

I would agree with the quoted statement a bit more if one had an Intuos/Bamboo connected to a computer/laptop - due to a screen to drawing disconnect. I find it hard to do many sketching on that setup, even if the Intuos is on the laptop's keyboard space and I am drawing looking at the laptop screen.

Not so much anymore since now we are seeing (albeit a bit pricey to some - however not much if one is considering the same setup with a similar configured laptop and separate connected digitizer) solutions that once only held in the very high end (Cintiq 12 inch display only drawing digitizers and Cintiq 21/24 inch display only digitizer devices - and needing a computer to work with it - and those displays aren't as ideal in portability as the Cintiq Companion and Surface Pro)

However, the Cintiq Companion wins out in double the pressure, has tilt (which further corrects and finesses calibration of the pen to screen), and pen barrel rotate. The Surface Pro wins out in the portability factor the Cintiq Companion doesn't have (being 13 inches, with no native cover and keyboard system).

 

[Imaginer]

If anything, I would wish the Cintiq Companion 2 would have Haswell or beyond internals, 8GB+/256GB+ SSD and a similar cover keyboard system and power connector system of the Surface Pro/Pro 2.

Or...

The Surface Pro 3 would include at the very least, pen tilt recognition and pen barrel rotate recognition. Double the pressure would be nice too.

 

[booth_1]

Man there are some douchy unrequested answers here. I don't recall the question being "what do you guys thinm the best way to create art is?" I believe it was more along the lines of with what.

My own personal opinion is that if she enjoys doing it digitally, then you should encourage that. Don't wait for her to prove herself, that's a ridiculous suggestion! If she is having fun, and you can afford it, it is not a waste. From my limited research the microsoft surface pro is meant to be really good. Otherwise you could try a samsung galaxy note which also appafently works really well.

Encourage her to have fun and use the tools available to us, rather than as certain people here seem to be suggesting making her do something she doesn't want to do and expecting her to deal with it. I cant draw very well at all, but to toot my own horn I am an excellent photoshop artist.

Art is about experimenting and having fun. Not being a self righteous douche.

 

[Homerboy]

Man there are some douchy unrequested answers here. I don't recall the question being "what do you guys thinm the best way to create art is?" I believe it was more along the lines of with what.

My own personal opinion is that if she enjoys doing it digitally, then you should encourage that. Don't wait for her to prove herself, that's a ridiculous suggestion! If she is having fun, and you can afford it, it is not a waste. From my limited research the microsoft surface pro is meant to be really good. Otherwise you could try a samsung galaxy note which also appafently works really well.

Encourage her to have fun and use the tools available to us, rather than as certain people here seem to be suggesting making her do something she doesn't want to do and expecting her to deal with it. I cant draw very well at all, but to toot my own horn I am an excellent photoshop artist.

Art is about experimenting and having fun. Not being a self righteous douche.

Thanks. I looked past all the self-righteousness.

St. Nick ended up getting her a $20 stylus that she uses on the iPad every_single_night. She found this incredible app called "DrawQuest" -- it's basically a "facebook" or sort for young (and old) artists to share their simple an cute drawings. She LOVES it. Her art, and her confidence in it, has already unquestionably improved 10x over. Not to mention every user has a personal webpage where grandma and grandpa, mom and dad can view their works. I check it every night.

As an added bonus, Santa will be bringing her a Wacom tablet (small touch) that she can use on the PC for more "serious" art (her words, not mine).

But wait, there's more! For the people that require more traditional methods of creation, Santa is also bringing some sketch books, pencils and other medium for her stocking.

Whatya know, everyone wins and I end up with a well rounded artist who can pick what SHE wants to do.

 

[Buddyd]

Good choice going with the Wacom.

Check out the artist section of the Penny Arcade forums they have some free resources available there for budding artists.

I'd also recommend Sketchbook Pro (PC $59.99, Mac app store $29.99 and ipad $5.99) she can start a sketch on the ipad then finish it on the Mac/PC with the benefit of getting the precision and pressure sensitivity of the new Wacom tablet.

Artrage (PC/Mac $49.90 and ipad $4.99) is a decent enough natural media simulation program. I think its watercolor and pastels are great to work with.

Mypaint is a free open source endless canvas that will work with the pressure sensitivity on the wacom tablet. If she is used to GIMP this program will be pretty easy to pick up and will feel a ton more natural to draw in.

 

[Homerboy]

Thanks for the suggestions.
I was just looking at "ProCreate" on the iPad actually...