VW Faking Emissions Values

[LTC8K6]

Diesel was already on it's way out for passenger cars.

It's exhaust is just too dirty and too unhealthy.

 

[LTC8K6]

The crap may have hit the fan:

VW emissions crisis spreads to Europe as EU orders spot checks on cars
Crisis at Volkswagen crosses the Atlantic as German transport minister says company used 'defeat devices' in Europe and Britain orders new checks on pollution

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...-Europe-as-EU-orders-spot-checks-on-cars.html

BMW was also drawn into the scandal, with reports in the German motoring press that its X3 off-roader pumped out 11 times more pollution than allowed. Despite denials from BMW, nervous investors dumped the stock, sending the shares down 5pc.

 

[JulesMaximus]

I was actually considering one of these cars when I bought my Camry Hybrid a couple years ago but a) they were pretty scarce and b) they were too expensive.

Man, I'm glad I bought the hybrid.

 

[LTC8K6]

Volkswagen's cheating engines can't be easily fixed

Volkswagen actually tried to fix the problem using a software patch in December of 2014 and then again in April of this year.

Neither attempt was successful.

https://www.yahoo.com/autos/s/volkswagens-cheating-engines-cant-easily-fixed-vw-225206095.html

 

[KentState]

I wonder how long the different government agencies will wait for VW to come up with a fix before they deem them illegal to be registered?

 

[dawp]

Ya know the the feds are going to alter emissions testing so manufacturers can't do what VW did here and I wonder if that is going to affect the aftermarket since I've read that what VW did is basically what aftermarket roms do.

 

[NutBucket]

Aftermarket ROMs are far simpler; they typically just ignore error codes.

 

[RampantAndroid]

Aftermarket ROMs are far simpler; they typically just ignore error codes.

IIRC, a number of ROMs can switch into emissions safe mode, or be flashed back to factory. The less easy to handle is when you replace your exhaust system to get less restrictive cats (touching your exhaust is really only OK when doing off road stuff.)

 

[Hugo Drax]

back in the days the trick was (learned from my dad LOL) was you have a twenty dollar bill sticking underneath your hand and steering wheel, the edge of the twenty showing sticking out.

you would go to the line where the guy works, (the neighborhood knew the right guy who takes tips). Drive up, he pulls the 20 out and you pass. My old car would burn oil back then, but hey I was a broke teenager who could only afford a clunker. (Interestingly enough, girls did not give a rats ass what car you drove, different era I guess) I always hear now that is no longer the case.


After a while everyone working at the testing facility wanted in and it was every line took tips.

 

[Kelvrick]

back in the days the trick was (learned from my dad LOL) was you have a twenty dollar bill sticking underneath your hand and steering wheel, the edge of the twenty showing sticking out.

you would go to the line where the guy works, (the neighborhood knew the right guy who takes tips). Drive up, he pulls the 20 out and you pass. My old car would burn oil back then, but hey I was a broke teenager who could only afford a clunker. (Interestingly enough, girls did not give a rats ass what car you drove, different era I guess) I always hear now that is no longer the case.


After a while everyone working at the testing facility wanted in and it was every line took tips.

Costs 300+ here in California unless you "know a guy." But even then, you have to "know a guy" to pay 300+ in the first place.

 

[LTC8K6]

https://www.yahoo.com/autos/exclusive-u-s-cash-for-1264528182796342.html

Cash for Clunkers—the $3 billion U.S. government program from 2009 designed to boost the auto industry by spurring sales of fuel-efficient vehicles—spent $20.6 million helping buyers of Volkswagen diesel cars and wagons now under fire for software that faked their emission tests.

A Yahoo Autos analysis of the 690,114 vehicle sales covered by the program found that the U.S. government provided $4,500 rebates on 4,599 VW Jettas and Jetta Sportswagens now under recall. Those models, from the 2009 and 2010 model year equipped with the 2-liter turbodiesel, were highly popular in some areas because their high mileage ratings qualified them for the largest rebate under Cash for Clunkers.

Also:

Earlier this week, another analysis by The Los Angeles Times estimated that the government had also provided up to $51.5 million in tax credits to VW diesel buyers under a separate fuel-efficiency promotion. Since the U.S. Internal Revenue Service does not release detailed data on that program, it’s not known how many VW diesel owners actually claimed the credit.

 

[LTC8K6]

But the scandal keeps growing. German transport minister Alexander Dobrindt said on Thursday Volkswagen had also cheated tests in Europe, where its sales are much higher than in the United States. On Friday Dobrindt put the number of affected vehicles in Germany at 2.8 million.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/volkswagen-pick-boss-tackle-emissions-113739730.html

 

[Subyman]

My mom has had two TDI cars in the past 8 years. She may be seeing some restitution on them.

A lot of guys in the diesel truck world run new pipes and get a DEF delete tune. They pick about around 5mpg and better throttle response. Obviously you can't do this in a smog testing area, but many parts of the US do not require smog tests.

In retrospect, a lot of people should have seen this coming. VW went years without DEF while claiming to be clean when everyone else was having to us additives. Then again, VW has been fighting this claim for, I believe, two years so the writing has been on the wall for those that dig around.

 

[LTC8K6]

German weekly Bild am Sonntag reported that VW's internal investigation has found a 2007 letter from parts supplier Bosch warning Volkswagen not to use the software during regular operation.

Separately, the Frankfurter Allgemeine Sonntagszeitung reported that a Volkswagen technician raised concerns about illegal practices in connection with emissions levels in 2011. The weekly also cited VW's internal investigators.

http://news.yahoo.com/reports-vw-warned-illegal-emissions-tricks-ago-094246049--finance.html

 

[exar333]

http://news.yahoo.com/reports-vw-warned-illegal-emissions-tricks-ago-094246049--finance.html

Bosch has a lot to lose with this as well. The story will definitely continue to get more interesting as VW may have 11M vehicles to modify/fix world-wide.

 

[cbrsurfr]

When can I buy a TDI for pennies on the dollar?

 

[exar333]

This is a good video showing dynos with and without the defeat:

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/how-much-power-does-a-diesel-vw-make-with-its-defeat-device-turned-on-vs-turned-off/

 

[Ferzerp]

This is a good video showing dynos with and without the defeat:

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/how-much-power-does-a-diesel-vw-make-with-its-defeat-device-turned-on-vs-turned-off/

I fully expect there to be a significant difference, but that was about the absolute worst methodology I've ever seen for any experiment ever.

 

[senseamp]

Yeah, they need to do a control run 4wd vs 2wd dyno on another car to make sure the difference isn't from the dyno.
I also somehow doubt that VW would make the dash light up to notify tester, yep we are cheating now.

 

[PottedMeat]

Bosch has a lot to lose with this as well. The story will definitely continue to get more interesting as VW may have 11M vehicles to modify/fix world-wide.

i dunno. wouldn't vw want bosch to design as much flexibility in the ECU software as possible - what vw does with it is up to them. bosch could make a bit of cash out of this fixing software and maybe supplying emissions hardware.

 

[exar333]

i dunno. wouldn't vw want bosch to design as much flexibility in the ECU software as possible - what vw does with it is up to them. bosch could make a bit of cash out of this fixing software and maybe supplying emissions hardware.

Maybe in the short-term, yes. The issue for Bosch is that if Diesel market-share plummets due to this issue, it could hit them as a major component supplier in the future.

 

[exar333]

I fully expect there to be a significant difference, but that was about the absolute worst methodology I've ever seen for any experiment ever.

Agree. But obviously the EPA's method isn't much better as they missed the issue for many years.

I'm sure more reliable tests will come out soon, but the results in this case are not startling. Peak torque and lower-end torque availability likely are what users will see change when the 'fix' goes in. HP probably won't be hugely affected, but who knows.

 

[LTC8K6]

Volkswagen Emissions Investigation Zeroes In on Two Engineers

Company investigation focuses on two men elevated after Winterkorn was made CEO

WOLFSBURG, Germany—Two top Volkswagen engineers who found they couldn’t deliver as promised a clean diesel engine for the U.S. market are at the center of a company probe into the installation of engine software designed to fool regulators, according to people familiar with the matter.
...

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/volkswagen-emissions-investigation-zeroes-two-081000157.html#

I guess they couldn't get the job done, so they made it work...

 

[Mark R]

I fully expect there to be a significant difference, but that was about the absolute worst methodology I've ever seen for any experiment ever.

I have no idea what that test was supposed to show, other than that running the car on a 2 wheel dyno, made the ABS/traction control system panic, and may well have resulted in the ECU limiting torque as a safety feature following detection of a serious traction control system failure.

The official EPA complaint letter explains the circumstances of how the cheat was activated:
A series of parameters (such as air pressure, ambient temperature, idle time, and a specified pattern of speed and acceleration) had to match the protocol for the EPA new-model certification test drive. The complaint letter doesn't mention anything about traction control or use of a 2 WD test procedure.

 

[Brian Stirling]

A couple days ago I saw the first TV ad from a law firm and just today a second, different law firm has a TV ad looking to form a class action lawsuit.


Brian