VW defends Phaeton launch, says goal is to expand buyer base

[NFS4]

http://autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_code=carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=07605773

 

[Analog]

"The Phaeton was introduced in Europe with V-6 and W12 gasoline-powered engines and a short wheelbase, and VW says it learned from that experience. In the United States, it says, a V-8 is critical. "

what is a W12?

 

[StageLeft]

Well if I was spending $60k+ I sure wouldn't buy a VW, but unfortunately it's a decision I don't have to make any day soon

 

[DurocShark]

Originally posted by: yellowfiero
"The Phaeton was introduced in Europe with V-6 and W12 gasoline-powered engines and a short wheelbase, and VW says it learned from that experience. In the United States, it says, a V-8 is critical. "

what is a W12?

3 banks of 4 cylinders? :Q

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: yellowfiero
"The Phaeton was introduced in Europe with V-6 and W12 gasoline-powered engines and a short wheelbase, and VW says it learned from that experience. In the United States, it says, a V-8 is critical. "

what is a W12?

two VR6s joined at the crank.

 

[Viper GTS]

Originally posted by: yellowfiero
"The Phaeton was introduced in Europe with V-6 and W12 gasoline-powered engines and a short wheelbase, and VW says it learned from that experience. In the United States, it says, a V-8 is critical. "

what is a W12?

I never have been able to find a diagram of the "W" engines, not quite sure how the cylinders are arranged.

VW has both an 8 and 12 cylinder version of it, & a 16 that is used in the Veyron.

Viper GTS

 

[Viper GTS]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: yellowfiero
"The Phaeton was introduced in Europe with V-6 and W12 gasoline-powered engines and a short wheelbase, and VW says it learned from that experience. In the United States, it says, a V-8 is critical. "

what is a W12?

two VR6s joined at the crank.

So the W has no real significance?

Viper GTS

 

[StageLeft]

Isn't that inferior to simply making a real 12 cylinder?

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: DurocShark

Originally posted by: yellowfiero
"The Phaeton was introduced in Europe with V-6 and W12 gasoline-powered engines and a short wheelbase, and VW says it learned from that experience. In the United States, it says, a V-8 is critical. "

what is a W12?

3 banks of 4 cylinders? :Q

No, 4 banks of 3 cylinders. Except it isn;t. It's actually two VR6 motors fused at the crank. They are very shallow (read 15 Degree) V6's and the pots are offset like so (If this doesn't work in ASCII, tough):

O O O
. O O O

Except they are closer than that.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS]

So the W has no real significance?

Viper GTS

they're not joined in tandem.

 

[isekii]

I dont know about anyone else, that $60 grand will go towards a Mercedes or a Bimmer.

No way in hell i'd spend 60k on a VW.

 

VW's W engine

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: isekii
I dont know about anyone else, that $60 grand will go towards a Mercedes or a Bimmer.

No way in hell i'd spend 60k on a VW.

Yeah a nice one. I think that's why the V8 passat hasn't sold very well. Because it's a vw. They have audi for this kind of thing.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: isekii
I dont know about anyone else, that $60 grand will go towards a Mercedes or a Bimmer.

No way in hell i'd spend 60k on a VW.

Yeah a nice one. I think that's why the V8 passat hasn't sold very well. Because it's a vw. They have audi for this kind of thing.

yeah really... wtf is the point of having multiple brands if you try to make them all appeal to the same market?

 

[Viper GTS]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: isekii
I dont know about anyone else, that $60 grand will go towards a Mercedes or a Bimmer.

No way in hell i'd spend 60k on a VW.

Yeah a nice one. I think that's why the V8 passat hasn't sold very well. Because it's a vw. They have audi for this kind of thing.

The W8 Passat didn't sell well because there are MUCH better alternatives at that price, not to mention the insane cost of simple maintenance (oil changes).

Viper GTS

 

[bozack]

Fifteen percent of VW customers leave for a luxury brand. So VW will focus its marketing efforts on retaining customers who are in the market for a luxury sedan, and on those it calls "nonconformist buyers" and "transcendent drivers" - buyers who look beyond a vehicle's badge.

IMHO bullsheat....as others have said they are competing with themselves, they should have put this out under an Audi badge...people will not be willing to pay that kind of money on a VW without serious incentives...heck even Toyota and Honda were smart enough to figure that out with their Lexus and Acura divisions...this is one of the stupidest decisions I have yet to see.

 

[LAUST]

Originally posted by: isekii
I dont know about anyone else, that $60 grand will go towards a Mercedes or a Bimmer.

No way in hell i'd spend 60k on a VW.

I'd much rather make an investment myself (House)

60K on a car that still just goes from A to B and depriciates is kinda silly to me.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: bozack

Fifteen percent of VW customers leave for a luxury brand. So VW will focus its marketing efforts on retaining customers who are in the market for a luxury sedan, and on those it calls "nonconformist buyers" and "transcendent drivers" - buyers who look beyond a vehicle's badge.

IMHO bullsheat....as others have said they are competing with themselves, they should have put this out under an Audi badge...people will not be willing to pay that kind of money on a VW without serious incentives...heck even Toyota and Honda were smart enough to figure that out with their Lexus and Acura divisions...this is one of the stupidest decisions I have yet to see.

Yes, part of spending $60k on a car is because of the badge. If Kia comes out with a gorgeous high end sedan with excellent features and power and the whole nine yards people are not going to want to say they just spent $60k on a new KIA.

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: LAUST

Originally posted by: isekii
I dont know about anyone else, that $60 grand will go towards a Mercedes or a Bimmer.

No way in hell i'd spend 60k on a VW.

I'd much rather make an investment myself (House)

60K on a car that still just goes from A to B and depriciates is kinda silly to me.

Sure Laust, but there are plenty of people with alot more money, and or alot less common sense than you.....the best way to buy a 60K car is used, let someone else take the huge depreciation hit and then you swoop in for the savings....but there are plenty of people ready and willing to spend at least that on a car and my money bets that they won't seriously consider this or any other high end VW since afterall it is still just a VW...why buy a 60K VW when you can get an Audi, BMW, Merc, Lexus or any other host of premium label cars.....it is almost like Chilis serving high priced five star food in their crappy chain style places along with their more reasonable food... people who buy luxury want luxury-image-service etc....unless VWQ plans on giving phaeton owners preferential treatment over their other customers (and I doubt that would even be enough) it will be very hard for them to distinguish their lines from luxo and non luxo....

 

[LAUST]

Originally posted by: bozack

Originally posted by: LAUST

Originally posted by: isekii
I dont know about anyone else, that $60 grand will go towards a Mercedes or a Bimmer.

No way in hell i'd spend 60k on a VW.

I'd much rather make an investment myself (House)

60K on a car that still just goes from A to B and depriciates is kinda silly to me.

Sure Laust, but there are plenty of people with alot more money, and or alot less common sense than you.....the best way to buy a 60K car is used, let someone else take the huge depreciation hit and then you swoop in for the savings....but there are plenty of people ready and willing to spend at least that on a car and my money bets that they won't seriously consider this or any other high end VW since afterall it is still just a VW...why buy a 60K VW when you can get an Audi, BMW, Merc, Lexus or any other host of premium label cars.....it is almost like Chilis serving high priced five star food in their crappy chain style places along with their more reasonable food...

totally

 

[BigSmooth]

They can defend it all they want, but if it doesn't sell, then it is not offering the consumer what they want for their dollar, whether that includes the badge or not. You can't really compare it to the Touareg since American buyers are so SUV-nutty right now.

I also think defending the Phaeton's (and Passat W8's) poor sales by saying "it's OK, these are image cars so we did not expect to make a profit". That's bunk. Even if VW didn't expect to make a profit, no company wants to have poor sales and low demand for their product.

And does it really HELP VW's image if the Phaeton does not sell? No. If the Phaeton fails it will be looked at in 10 years as a sad relic of VW's misguided attempt to enter the luxury sedan market. If it succeeds it will be looked at as a groundbreaking vehicle for VW.

I'm really curious to see how it will sell here.

 

[Stark]

Originally posted by: BigSmooth
They can defend it all they want, but if it doesn't sell, then it is not offering the consumer what they want for their dollar, whether that includes the badge or not. You can't really compare it to the Touareg since American buyers are so SUV-nutty right now.

I also think defending the Phaeton's (and Passat W8's) poor sales by saying "it's OK, these are image cars so we did not expect to make a profit". That's bunk. Even if VW didn't expect to make a profit, no company wants to have poor sales and low demand for their product.

And does it really HELP VW's image if the Phaeton does not sell? No. If the Phaeton fails it will be looked at in 10 years as a sad relic of VW's misguided attempt to enter the luxury sedan market. If it succeeds it will be looked at as a groundbreaking vehicle for VW.

I'm really curious to see how it will sell here.

why does anyone need 8 (or 12) cylinders for a everyday driver passenger car? Then again, I don't know why you'd spend that much on a car. Worst investment you can make.

 

[SuperTool]

Why does VW want to go luxury? They have Audi for that.

 

[aphex]

Surprizingly enough i have seen quite a few of these on the road down here in Southwest Florida...

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: aphex
Surprizingly enough i have seen quite a few of these on the road down here in Southwest Florida...

How? They aren't supposed to hit dealerships until Decemeber and they won't start advertising until Q1 '04