VR-Zone: AMD Ontario has 9 watt TDP, "die shots revealed"

cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
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9 watts sounds really good (although I still hope the iGPU gets some good power saving tech for idle conditions)

P.S. Does anyone think we will see OEMs allow provisions for overclocking "Ontario" to "Zacate" levels? Or maybe it is possible the 9 extra watts on Zacate (18 watt TDP) come from extra GPU logic added to the Ontario die?
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
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This definitely deserves its own thread but just so you are aware this has been discussed in the behemoth bobcat/bulldozer thread in addition to having a dedicated thread in video forum. Scan through them to get a feel for other members ideas on it. Hopefully folks will post in here, like I said Bobcat/Fusion deserves its own thread apart from BD imo.
 

Martimus

Diamond Member
Apr 24, 2007
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I'll copy my thoughts that I posted in the other thread here:

It looks like the Ontario chip has a TDP of 9W (http://vr-zone.com/articles/amd-onta...aled/9754.html)

Also included in that article is a picture of the die.

Zacate (which I didn't hear about until just now to be honest) has a TDP of 18w, and is a higher clocked version of the Bobcat, meant to be used in laptops. This version will actually be available at retail according to the article. (The Ontario chips are BGA and will not be available at retail, only as part of a system)

EDIT: I didn't mention this since it was already mentioned in the video forum, but the shipping date has moved from Q1 2011 to Q4 2010.
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
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So we have Zacate and Ontario? Or is Ontario like Evergreen in that Ontario is the product family name and Zacate is like Cypress meaning Zacate is but on particular implementation within the Ontario family?

(I think we already agreed Bobcat merely refers to the x86 core architecture, not a particular product nor the product family, yes?)

So we have two parts - an 18W "Zacate" and a 9W "?"...is the 9W part also a Zacate?

/eff'it I'm so god damned confused now...wheres Ctho9305!?
 

Vesku

Diamond Member
Aug 25, 2005
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I'd be pretty impressed if Ontario and Zacate differ by more than clock speed. My guess is Ontario is low to mid 1GHz while Zacate is 2GHz+ on the cpu front with a corresponding boost to the GPU clock.

I really hope a manufacturer launches a bobcat system before Christmas.
 

cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
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ontario_vs_atom.jpg


This image was originally posted at AMD Zone.
 

CTho9305

Elite Member
Jul 26, 2000
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(I think we already agreed Bobcat merely refers to the x86 core architecture, not a particular product nor the product family, yes?)

The speaker at Hot Chips made that pretty clear.

edit: Jeez, you can't see anything at all in that die photo :(.
 
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busydude

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2010
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An 18W APU "Zacate" for Notebooks and Desktops?.. That's Llano's territory. Whats going on?
 
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cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
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I'd be pretty impressed if Ontario and Zacate differ by more than clock speed. My guess is Ontario is low to mid 1GHz while Zacate is 2GHz+ on the cpu front with a corresponding boost to the GPU clock.

I really hope a manufacturer launches a bobcat system before Christmas.

A 2Ghz core would be really interesting (even if performance per watt happened to be lower than the lowest power version of Llano).

P.S. Does anyone think Ontario or Zacate could be strong enough for productivity uses? (photoshop and light video editing)
 

busydude

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2010
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My idea was that Ontario for netbooks and CULV's and Llano for Notebooks and entry-level to mid-range desktops.
 

Vesku

Diamond Member
Aug 25, 2005
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Yes, CULV market segment, not to mention it gives them something new to sell while waiting for Llano and BD to ship.

Edit: Just want to add a comment on 80SPs shown in the die shot. Does this basically mean a DX11 version of the current integrated Radeon graphics, Radeon 5200 so to speak? How does this compare to PowerVR and i3 HD graphics?
 
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Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
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ontario_vs_atom.jpg


This image was originally posted at AMD Zone.

The clockspeed of the L2$ is 1/2 the core clocks so the sram density doesn't surprise me one bit (even after accounting for the 40nm vs 45nm delta) but wholely sweet jesus are those die-area numbers correct for Bobcat's core compared to Atom?

Half of the die-area? Color me impressed :thumbsup:
 

busydude

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2010
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I am not sure if this is a Legit pic of ontario, well the article says so. Oh, that's a euro coin by the way(Diameter = 23.25mm).

25b.jpg
 

cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
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I am not sure if this is a Legit pic of ontario, well the article says so. Oh, that's a euro coin by the way(Diameter = 23.25mm).

25b.jpg

Isn't the "die" the shiny silver part on the "package"? If so, then I could see the chip pictured being approximately 8mm x 9mm.

(Someone correct me if I am using these terms "die" and "package" incorrectly).
 

busydude

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2010
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Yes, its the die. Also its BGA packaged, so its does not have a heat spreader.

Correct me if am wrong.
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,110
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Isn't the "die" the shiny silver part on the "package"? If so, then I could see the chip pictured being approximately 8mm x 9mm.

(Someone correct me if I am using these terms "die" and "package" incorrectly).

calibration measured and perspective corrected

8.0mm x 9.4mm

Ontario1.jpg
 
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Nemesis 1

Lifer
Dec 30, 2006
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Yes, CULV market segment, not to mention it gives them something new to sell while waiting for Llano and BD to ship.

Edit: Just want to add a comment on 80SPs shown in the die shot. Does this basically mean a DX11 version of the current integrated Radeon graphics, Radeon 5200 so to speak? How does this compare to PowerVR and i3 HD graphics?

With smart phones Power VR is better. i3 hd is the first real improvement intel made with IGP. But its weak compared to sandies 6-12 EU. We have to see it working.

Atom medfield won't compete with it as its intended for smartphones and handhelds .

It would seem this will be going up against intels 32nm OAK trail. Intel isn't talking about Oak trail at all. Time will tell all and lots and lots of hindsight there will be. Forsight now thats special.
 

cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
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Does anyone expect this product to suffer from the same 1GB RAM restriction as atom?

At this time DDR3 SODIMM prices are so cheap (Newegg SO-DIMM prices: 1GB ~$22, 2GB ~$40. Even the 4GB SO-DIMM sticks aren't that bad at $89)

EDIT: It appears this 1GB restriction is being mandated by MS. Therefore does anyone have any speculation on how a Google Chrome OS 2GB Ontario netbook might stack up against a 1GB Windows 7 Starter netbook as far as price and multimedia GPGPU prodfuctivity? Would Google be able to use Open CL on their platform?
 
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extra

Golden Member
Dec 18, 1999
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OEMs will just ignore that and ship the souped up "netbooks" with windows home instead of starter.
 

cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
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OEMs will just ignore that and ship the souped up "netbooks" with windows home instead of starter.

Well that is true, but is there anything about these little 74mm2 APUs that makes them particularly attractive for Chrome OS?

According to Wikipedia Chrome OS has an offline multi-media player. Maybe they will release some offline GPGPU productivity applications as well? (depending on how well Open CL does in the future).
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
8,686
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Couple of points:

-I should say that the Pineview chip that's in the comparison pic from AMDZone is using GMA 3150 which is Intel's in-house GPU not PowerVR. Refer to my thread here: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2090553&highlight=overview+all+atom+derivatives

-The 1GB RAM limitation was only on the Z-series SKU Atoms, which was lifted by Intel around a year after introduction. But most of the Z-series based designs still use 1GB because the form factor is much smaller.

I want to dispute that pic. The top looks like caches. Take a look here: http://www.computerbase.de/bildstrecke/30669/9/
 
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