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Voting Rights vote

G

gothuevos

Diamond Member
Schumer says it could happen as early as today or up until MLK day.

When it fails, will we be real time watching the end of the Republic? Or at least the first major domino?

Fascinating and depressing at the same time. Rhetoric from the right regarding the persecution of political opponents has become exponentially more brazen and frequent in just the past few weeks.

They sense blood in the water and we are pretty helpless.
 
cytg111 said:
Just be sure that everybody knows that it was Manchin and Sinema that brought about the fall of us democracy. Fair or no fair, they were last two morons on the line, sucks to be them, they get the blame.
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Our GOP overlords will just rewrite the history books to paint them as heroes.
 
gothuevos said:
Schumer says it could happen as early as today or up until MLK day.

When it fails, will we be real time watching the end of the Republic? Or at least the first major domino?

Fascinating and depressing at the same time. Rhetoric from the right regarding the persecution of political opponents has become exponentially more brazen and frequent in just the past few weeks.

They sense blood in the water and we are pretty helpless.
Click to expand...
While voting rights legislation is good an important, the idea that the republic hinges on this bill is a fantasy.

I guess it's a uniquely american delusion where we think if we just pass the right law then everything will be fine when in reality when it comes to saving the republic the law is 100% irrelevant.
 
Better voting rights are an inherent good but the unaddressed structural problems of the republic are what's threatening its continued existence.
 
Does this bill address the voter registration purges happening in GA? The removal of hundreds of voting locations that are conveniently in areas that support people of color. Help pay for people to take a day off to wait in line for 6 hours in those places that lost polling locations? What about gerrymandering?
 
This bill is a desperate attempt to fix a problem that will take the complete change of elected officials in the States. Until we elect State legislators that can reverse this, this is a toothless attempt to then allow the Justice Department to investigate, which will then bring in the SCOTUS to then go against what is in the people’s best interest.
 
The GQP removing impeachment as a way to deal with wanna be kings was bad, removing the ability for elections to matter strikes me as them hitting the gas on the road to dead politicians.

I really hope this country can purge as many Rs as possible this year and in 24. Insurrection and treason seem like great nonpartisan reasons to do just that. Trump and his handlers clearly need to be slapped with the 14th. It won't remove the danger Trumpism poses, but it will buy rational America time it needs to further buttress democracy, also deal with Russia and China playing The 3rd Reich's favorite hits.
 
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fskimospy said:
While voting rights legislation is good an important, the idea that the republic hinges on this bill is a fantasy.

I guess it's a uniquely american delusion where we think if we just pass the right law then everything will be fine when in reality when it comes to saving the republic the law is 100% irrelevant.
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As evidenced by the fact that so much of the stability of our government was not actually codified in law but predicated instead on the assumption of integrity and good faith deference to the constitution and rule of law by our legislators/executive admins.
 
fskimospy said:
While voting rights legislation is good an important, the idea that the republic hinges on this bill is a fantasy.

I guess it's a uniquely american delusion where we think if we just pass the right law then everything will be fine when in reality when it comes to saving the republic the law is 100% irrelevant.
Click to expand...
Voting rights bill are not a panacea but without them Democracy will do a slow flush down the toilet. It's already started. Can you say apartheid?

Right now 18% of the population elects 52% of the Senate. Think that is good for Democracy? Without those bills things like that will continue to erode.
 
uclaLabrat said:
As evidenced by the fact that so much of the stability of our government was not actually codified in law but predicated instead on the assumption of integrity and good faith deference to the constitution and rule of law by our legislators/executive admins.
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Exactly - like when the next coup attempt comes why exactly do people think it will save us if they can point to a law that says 'no coups allowed' or whatever?

If/when it happens the only thing that will matter is how much political force and how much actual force each party can bring to bear.
 
gothuevos said:
Without voting protections, it absolutely will not.

Not when some hyper partisan in your state's legislature can say "Nah, your vote doesn't count because of fRaUd."
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I think you misunderstood what I meant.
People still fight for rights and protections that have been taken away.
Often more fervently.

Don't be so quick to throw in the towel.
 
Has Manchima ever explained how they waived the filibuster for raising the debt ceiling but voting rights aren't worth it??
 
HomerJS said:
Voting rights bill are not a panacea but without them Democracy will do a slow flush down the toilet. It's already started. Can you say apartheid?

Right now 18% of the population elects 52% of the Senate. Think that is good for Democracy? Without those bills things like that will continue to erode.
Click to expand...
Like I said I think this is a good law to pass, I just don't think it matters in preventing the end of democracy. Maybe on the margins in that a more representative democracy would increase political support for the system in some way but there's a decent chance that would simply accelerate Republican efforts to overthrow the republic.

So I think it's a good bill and I hope it passes! I think we should be clear eyed on what it will accomplish though, and preventing election subversion is not one of those things. No law can stop that.
 
fskimospy said:
Like I said I think this is a good law to pass, I just don't think it matters in preventing the end of democracy. Maybe on the margins in that a more representative democracy would increase political support for the system in some way but there's a decent chance that would simply accelerate Republican efforts to overthrow the republic.

So I think it's a good bill and I hope it passes! I think we should be clear eyed on what it will accomplish though, and preventing election subversion is not one of those things. No law can stop that.
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I've had a number of arguments with my wife about this and the end of the filibuster. She thinks passing this and ending the filibuster will get us back on track. I think we're so down shit creek at the local/state levels that nothing happening at the federal level is going to correct it. All of the suppression happening at the local levels, takeover of school boards by red hats, outright assaults on fair elections happening in republican state legislature is happening as we speak. It's going to take a revolution at a local level to correct the direction.
 
Moscow Mitch live currently on senate floor. Complaining how Biden’s speech yesterday is dividing the country. Umm hypocrite much? But one thing I do agree with, the electors didn’t give him the mandate to make such drastic changes with such narrow majority in congress. Imagine if Biden did cross the aisle and do each item one at a time instead of lumping everything into BBB. And Moscow Mitch threw it back in Biden’s face, if voting laws is so important, why has it taken a backseat to other agenda items?
 
uclaLabrat said:
As evidenced by the fact that so much of the stability of our government was not actually codified in law but predicated instead on the assumption of integrity and good faith deference to the constitution and rule of law by our legislators/executive admins.
Click to expand...

Absolutely this. I honestly had no idea the degree to which the system on this country was based on tradition and social norms rather that actual laws.

R's have completely thrown those out the window (along with actual laws when they can get away with it). Meanwhile Dems are playing by 60 year old rules.
 
eelw said:
Moscow Mitch live currently on senate floor. Complaining how Biden’s speech yesterday is dividing the country. Umm hypocrite much? But one thing I do agree with, the electors didn’t give him the mandate to make such drastic changes with such narrow majority in congress.
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Biden won by 7 million votes and in the House Democrats won by 5 million votes. If you took identical vote totals and switched the parties this would have led to a historic landslide for Republicans. My guess would be with the exact same margin Republicans net around 350 electoral votes and a 40-50 seat majority in the House. Would you consider that a mandate? If so, why not this? The will of the voters was clear, it is only the anti-democratic aspects of our system that limited Democratic political power.

Contrast this with 2016 where Republicans lost the presidential popular vote and won the house vote by a bit over 1 million votes. Did you hear a peep out of them about a 'mandate'? Yes, they claimed they had one! So no, there is no reason to agree with McConnell's obvious self serving lies.

Imagine if Biden did cross the aisle and do each item one at a time instead of lumping everything into BBB. And Moscow Mitch threw it back in Biden’s face, if voting laws is so important, why has it taken a backseat to other agenda items?
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They would happily filibuster every single one. Can't filibuster BBB though.
 
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dainthomas said:
Absolutely this. I honestly had no idea the degree to which the system on this country was based on tradition and social norms rather that actual laws.

R's have completely thrown those out the window (along with actual laws when they can get away with it). Meanwhile Dems are playing by 60 year old rules.
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Every democratic system is reliant on norms and good faith participation. After all in the end you have a system where the person with control of the military voluntarily hands that power over to someone else when they could instead have them killed or imprisoned.
 
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