Vote doesn't go the way you want, split the state in two!

[uli2000]

http://www.kfi640.com/cc-commo...153218&article=4547353

Fed Lawsuit Filed Over Gay Marriage

A gay couple from Mission Viejo says the passage of Prop. 8 has forced them to re-file a federal lawsuit over gay marriage.
Friday, November 7, 2008


Two guys from Mission Viejo have refiled their federal lawsuit challenging laws banning same-sex marriage after the passage of Proposition 8. Their attorney also announced plans for an initiative to split California into two states.

Christopher Hammer and Arthur Smelt first took the issue to federal court in 2004. After the California Supreme Court ruled in May 2008 that Proposition 22 was unconstitutional, Hammer and Smelt married.

With Tuesday's passage of Proposition 8, which inserts language in the state constitution that marriage is only between a man and woman, the men revived the federal lawsuit that seeks to have the federal Defense of Marriage Act declared unconstitutional.

Their attorney believes the real solution is a an initiative that would create two states of California.

The new California would have a constitution "that will guarantee and recognize the fundamental rights of all people and contain a provision that its constitution may not be amended to take away fundamental rights of any person.''
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Whatever you believe about Prop. 8, the will of the voters has spoken. How come when things dont go your way, sue untill you get it. And splitting California? OMG, that is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

 

[Farang]

I don't know about California but it can make sense sometimes.. Washington state needs to be split in two

 

[BoomerD]

There'd have to be a way to separate the larger urban areas from the rest of the state...because that's more-or-less how the vote was actually split.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
There'd have to be a way to separate the larger urban areas from the rest of the state...because that's more-or-less how the vote was actually split.

Red zones and Blue zones like Mad Max.

 

[uli2000]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: BoomerD
There'd have to be a way to separate the larger urban areas from the rest of the state...because that's more-or-less how the vote was actually split.

Red zones and Blue zones like Mad Max.

How well will that work out? The blue zones will have all the money, but the red zones will have all the resources, plus, all the guns.

 

[Duwelon]

I've heard before that SoCal and NoCal are geopolitically very different. More farm country in the north, more urban in the south.

 

[AbAbber2k]

Originally posted by: Farang
I don't know about California but it can make sense sometimes.. Washington state needs to be split in two

WA would be easy to split since the west side of the mountains is largely urban/blue while the east side is mostly farmland/red.

I personally don't care, but I know a lot of people, especially on the east side, would like to split the state.

 

[Budmantom]

They should take SF and make it it's own country.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
There'd have to be a way to separate the larger urban areas from the rest of the state...because that's more-or-less how the vote was actually split.

Yup, in cities where the very same bigot Rednecks that live in the country are exposed to different types of people, they change and have no problem with it after a while.

It is only the isolated and narrow of the countryside that keep bigotry alive. Same people, same stupidity and ignorance, but one group finds out through living that their fears are never realized. The other guy is just somebody who lends you a cube of butter and has your kids over for a birthday party.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Budmantom
They should take SF and make it it's own country.

Why? It's only because of San Francisco the country doesn't much care anymore that you're ButtmadTom.

 

[Budmantom]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Budmantom
They should take SF and make it it's own country.

Why? It's only because of San Francisco the country doesn't much care anymore that you're ButtmadTom.

Did the gay pride parade finish early?

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: uli2000
http://www.kfi640.com/cc-commo...153218&article=4547353

Fed Lawsuit Filed Over Gay Marriage

A gay couple from Mission Viejo says the passage of Prop. 8 has forced them to re-file a federal lawsuit over gay marriage.
Friday, November 7, 2008


Two guys from Mission Viejo have refiled their federal lawsuit challenging laws banning same-sex marriage after the passage of Proposition 8. Their attorney also announced plans for an initiative to split California into two states.

Christopher Hammer and Arthur Smelt first took the issue to federal court in 2004. After the California Supreme Court ruled in May 2008 that Proposition 22 was unconstitutional, Hammer and Smelt married.

With Tuesday's passage of Proposition 8, which inserts language in the state constitution that marriage is only between a man and woman, the men revived the federal lawsuit that seeks to have the federal Defense of Marriage Act declared unconstitutional.

Their attorney believes the real solution is a an initiative that would create two states of California.

The new California would have a constitution "that will guarantee and recognize the fundamental rights of all people and contain a provision that its constitution may not be amended to take away fundamental rights of any person.''
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Whatever you believe about Prop. 8, the will of the voters has spoken. How come when things dont go your way, sue untill you get it. And splitting California? OMG, that is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

i wonder if that would apply to gun rights?

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Duwelon
I've heard before that SoCal and NoCal are geopolitically very different. More farm country in the north, more urban in the south.

As a native Californian who has lived decades in each, let me correct you. It's wrong.

You can of course talk about it different ways - do you mean the vast wilderness areas, or the population?

California is a complicated place. I often summarize the politics by pointing out that we elected Reagan and Jerry Brown back to back as Governor. You have liberal Los Angeles County bordering the similarly suburban Orange Country, and San Diego, partly from the military, is again similarly suburban yet far right politically - while the suburban Bay Area is among the nation's most liberal.

Perhaps the clearest geographic split is between the coastal and inland areas; despite San Diego, the coastal is liberal, and inland is like our own little red state, rednecks.

The farmland you mention is an inland thing more than a northern thing, at least insofar as the San Francisco Bay Area is far from 'farmland', and the farmlands in the inland north are not too different politically from the deserts in the inland south. CA is American's #1 agricultural state last I heard, funny enough, despite being a relatively small % of people.

While the southern area is more diverse but probably moderate-slight left, the north is more liberal. The far north - the large wilderness - has few people but they're interesting and their own culture - there's a story how the state tried to paint lines on a road and they followed behind removing them, they didn't want any more people. They're politically insignificant.

The main thing I'd think a split of the state would do, if done horizontally, would be to give us two smaller Californias and therefore two more Senators.

I've never seen a vertical split suggested, but that would give us a strongly liberal larger state and a very right-wing red state.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Budmantom

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Budmantom
They should take SF and make it it's own country.

Why? It's only because of San Francisco the country doesn't much care anymore that you're ButtmadTom.

Did the gay pride parade finish early?

You do realize San Francisco became the nation's gay capitol because of returning WWII sailors?

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: Craig234
Perhaps the clearest geographic split is between the coastal and inland areas; despite San Diego, the coastal is liberal, and inland is like our own little red state, rednecks.

That's the truth - but don't forget about Orange County - which is about as red as it gets. Like I said in some other vaguely related thread, the farther you get from open water, the drier your brain becomes, and the likelihood you are a GOP-voter increases dramatically.

 

[OFFascist]

I've heard alot of people in Northern California wouldnt mind splitting the state.

IMO this would make alot of people on both sides happy.

 

[CPA]

But how would we get 51 stars properly lined up on the flag. I've got a better idea - disown California completely from the United States. You can evenly spread the stars 7 by 7. Two birds killed with one stone.

 

[Farang]

Originally posted by: OFFascist
I've heard alot of people in Northern California wouldnt mind splitting the state.

IMO this would make alot of people on both sides happy.

I'm in Arcata now and it is a different planet. If this area got statehood pot would be legal and the economy would thrive off of shipping high-grade marijuana to Amsterdam.

But how would we get 51 stars properly lined up on the flag. I've got a better idea - disown California completely from the United States. You can evenly spread the stars 7 by 7. Two birds killed with one stone.

California owns the United States. Sort of like chopping your head off because you've got a pimple.

 

[nutxo]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: Budmantom

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Budmantom
They should take SF and make it it's own country.

Why? It's only because of San Francisco the country doesn't much care anymore that you're ButtmadTom.

Did the gay pride parade finish early?

You do realize San Francisco became the nation's gay capitol because of returning WWII sailors?

During World War II, the United States armed forces "sought out and dishonorably discharged" homosexuals. Many men who were expelled for being gay were processed at San Francisco bases.

 

[L00PY]

Originally posted by: uli2000
Their attorney believes the real solution is a an initiative that would create two states of California.

Their attorney is an idiot if they think a lawsuit like this (or any lawsuit even) can change a fundamental part of the US Constitution (Article IV, Section 3 for the Constitutionally challenged).

 

[GenHoth]

Originally posted by: uli2000

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: BoomerD
There'd have to be a way to separate the larger urban areas from the rest of the state...because that's more-or-less how the vote was actually split.

Red zones and Blue zones like Mad Max.

How well will that work out? The blue zones will have all the money, but the red zones will have all the resources, plus, all the guns.

You give us money and we give you resources? I thought we managed to work that out thousands of years ago...

 

[Brainonska511]

Originally posted by: uli2000
Whatever you believe about Prop. 8, the will of the voters has spoken. How come when things dont go your way, sue untill you get it.

You missed the point on liberalism completely (classically speaking). The majority cannot use its power to trample on the rights of the minority, which has been done in this case. Remember, it was the "will of the voters" to have slaves, segregation, etc... at one point in time.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Brainonska511

Originally posted by: uli2000
Whatever you believe about Prop. 8, the will of the voters has spoken. How come when things dont go your way, sue untill you get it.

You missed the point on liberalism completely (classically speaking). The majority cannot use its power to trample on the rights of the minority, which has been done in this case. Remember, it was the "will of the voters" to have slaves, segregation, etc... at one point in time.

I'm not sure it's a problem of missing the point so much as disagreeing with the fundamental premise of classical liberalism. The idea that we're endowed by our creator with unalienable rights, that we are all created equal...these are the founding principles of our country, and central tenets of classical liberalism. The idea, basically, that there exist natural rights that all human beings have, and that a decent government MUST respect those rights.

The idea of natural rights is slowly giving way to the kind of populism expressed by uli2000, mostly because it's a more convenient idea as long as you are in the majority. If you and your buddies want to do something, it's a drag to hear that might and numbers don't always make right.

 

[TallBill]

Illinois could be split in two. There are counties down south that have passed legilation stating that they will ignore any new state gun legislation. Chicago politics are definitely not the same as southern Illinois politics at all, but the majority rules.

 

[Extelleron]

Originally posted by: Brainonska511

Originally posted by: uli2000
Whatever you believe about Prop. 8, the will of the voters has spoken. How come when things dont go your way, sue untill you get it.

You missed the point on liberalism completely (classically speaking). The majority cannot use its power to trample on the rights of the minority, which has been done in this case. Remember, it was the "will of the voters" to have slaves, segregation, etc... at one point in time.

Entering into a state-sponsored marriage is not a right of living in the United States.

No one (except for some of the crazy bible-folks) wants to disrupt the lives of gays or disrupt their civil rights. Refusing to change the definition of marriage to incorporate gays is another story though.