voltage regulator/line conditioner

[highland145]

A while back, I bought a generac generator for those once every 10 year storms/power outages.....like I expect today....mainly for the refrigerator. I am concerned about the "dirty" power from the generator and the circuit boards in the fridge so I bought a APC line r 1200 voltage regulator. Reading the paperwork because I might need it and it says good for PCs/electronics but not things that use an ac motor...like a fridge.

Why not and what would happen if I use it anyway? And what should I get besides the one I have or should I just not worry about the generator output? The fridge pulls 3.2A, Kenmore elite trio.

TIA

 

[JoLLyRoGer]

It's not so much the operating load of 3.2A that you need to worry about, but the peak inrush current that hits say like when your compressor kicks over can momentarily be several times that rating.

that's the rub.

 

[highland145]

It's not so much the operating load of 3.2A that you need to worry about, but the peak inrush current that hits say like when your compressor kicks over can momentarily be several times that rating.

that's the rub.

Haven't been able to find the start up current yet. Still looking. The APC is for 10A which may not be enough. I guess the unit would just trip if it goes over that.....

 

[PowerEngineer]

Not exactly sure what this device purports to do, but voltage regulators are used by utilities to maintain acceptable delivery voltages by adjusting for feeder voltage drops as current (load) changes. Adjustments are made based on longer-term (i.e. minutes) measurements of average voltage. Voltage regulators don't really do anything to clean up "dirty" power (i.e. spikes and harmonics).

I'm also thinking along the same lines as JR that the momentary inrush current required to start your compressor motor isn't something that I'd want to try running through light weight surge protection.

Hope your lights stay on!

 

[z1ggy]

A while back, I bought a generac generator for those once every 10 year storms/power outages.....like I expect today....mainly for the refrigerator. I am concerned about the "dirty" power from the generator and the circuit boards in the fridge so I bought a APC line r 1200 voltage regulator. Reading the paperwork because I might need it and it says good for PCs/electronics but not things that use an ac motor...like a fridge.

Why not and what would happen if I use it anyway? And what should I get besides the one I have or should I just not worry about the generator output? The fridge pulls 3.2A, Kenmore elite trio.

TIA

The device you bought is rated for 1200VA. At 120v, it could handle 10A. As the one fellow poster above mentioned, the AC motor will have an initial inrush current higher than that of it's nominal current rating. What that current is, depends on how it was designed.

Not sure why you think you need this though? The only thing that equipment will do is regulate the voltage of incoming power (it will also trip a fuse, at I'm assuming 10A). The incoming voltage from the generator should be a fairly consistent 120v. The current your circuits draw will depend on what you turn on/off. The frequency of said power will depend on the power quality that the generator provides, but I assume it's also probably fairly stable. The device you bought though, doesn't seem to regulate frequency, unless I'm mistaken.

Regardless, you could still keep it and it use it protect valuable things like a PC, etc.

 

[WackyDan]

If you are worried about the quality of the supply, you should have bought an inverter based generator.

 

[who?]

Maybe you should get a refrigerator that isn't so delicate.

 

[highland145]

Thanks guys. What would I use to clean the source or do I need to at all?

If you are worried about the quality of the supply, you should have bought an inverter based generator.

Didn't know that. Figured I could buy something to protect it.

Maybe you should get a refrigerator that isn't so delicate.

It was a gift but I'd imagine most have circuit boards in them these days. My Mom's samsung has gone out twice because the board fried.

 

[highland145]

Hope your lights stay on!

Off about 2 hours. Hopefully that's it. Otherwise, I'll let you know what did/didn't work.

 

[z1ggy]

Highland, I think you are confused as to what you refer to as "clean".

If I'm right... You are concerned about the boards frying, no? This has nothing to do with how "clean" the power is. Clean, as far my electrical mind thinks of it as, is the power quality. This will be mainly affected by harmonics in the signal. A very clean signal will have very little harmonics in it.

Also, is your mom's fridge on the same circuit as another high load device? I don't see why her boards would keep frying if it was on it's own circuit, or on a circuit just some other light bulbs, etc.

 

[Mark R]

Not exactly sure what this device purports to do, but voltage regulators are used by utilities to maintain acceptable delivery voltages by adjusting for feeder voltage drops as current (load) changes. Adjustments are made based on longer-term (i.e. minutes) measurements of average voltage. Voltage regulators don't really do anything to clean up "dirty" power (i.e. spikes and harmonics).

The device linked is a very simple device. It's just an autotransformer with 90%, 100% and 110% taps, and an automatic tap changer relay.

It will do nothing for spikes, harmonics, short duration brown-outs, surges or temporary supply interruptions.

The slow response of the device would make it of limited use for sensitive electronic devices.

I can imagine some specialist equipment might benefit from this, but the only time I've ever seen the need for this type of voltage regulator is when I had a darkroom, and I needed regulated voltage for the exposure lamp in order to get consistent results.

 

[highland145]

Highland, I think you are confused as to what you refer to as "clean".

If I'm right... You are concerned about the boards frying, no? This has nothing to do with how "clean" the power is. Clean, as far my electrical mind thinks of it as, is the power quality. This will be mainly affected by harmonics in the signal. A very clean signal will have very little harmonics in it.

Also, is your mom's fridge on the same circuit as another high load device? I don't see why her boards would keep frying if it was on it's own circuit, or on a circuit just some other light bulbs, etc.

Exactly. So how do I get this via the generator or do I not need to worry about it?

Just had her house re-wired in the last month. Built in 1953 with 14ga and, iirc, my Dad said most of the wall plugs were on the same circuit. I know the new wire is 12ga and I'll check on the outlets on that circuit.

The device linked is a very simple device. It's just an autotransformer with 90%, 100% and 110% taps, and an automatic tap changer relay.

It will do nothing for spikes, harmonics, short duration brown-outs, surges or temporary supply interruptions.

The slow response of the device would make it of limited use for sensitive electronic devices.

I can imagine some specialist equipment might benefit from this, but the only time I've ever seen the need for this type of voltage regulator is when I had a darkroom, and I needed regulated voltage for the exposure lamp in order to get consistent results.

Well, crap. Wanna buy it?

 

[WackyDan]

Thanks guys. What would I use to clean the source or do I need to at all?
Didn't know that. Figured I could buy something to protect it.

It was a gift but I'd imagine most have circuit boards in them these days. My Mom's samsung has gone out twice because the board fried.

The rub... Is that the generator you bought was cheaper and probably has higher output. It will power lights, and most appliances. Your computer may or may not like it. The problem with standard generators is that yes, the power is noisy as fuck and anything that has a charging circuit - laptops, UPSes for computers, and yes, even some electronics like a standard computer or flat panel tv is going to potentially not function or function right.

Inverter Generators are 2x-3x the cost of what you bought. On the plus side they tend to be far more compact and quieter, but deliver power that is far cleaner and anything that either has batteries to charge, or that is electronic will function properly and not be damaged. I've been researching generators for a while now and the inverter based one I have my eye on is $900 for 3000 watt output. A name brand Honda with that output would be $1500 +++.

For me, inverter is the way to go.. I have many computers, and UPSes in the house due to the nature of my work, but I also have an RV that I can run off that generator as well.

I'm sure that Generac would work just fine for you in a pinch though. On the plus side, you are far better prepared just by having it than most people.

 

[JoLLyRoGer]

Tone I have my eye on is $900 for 3000 watt output. A name brand Honda with that output would be $1500 +++.

Please share? I'm in the market for something similar for my 5th wheel RV. 3000 might even power one rooftop AC unit. 900.00 for an inverter type is a great price for something with that output.

I won't do a standard cage type for reasons you already mentioned, plus it pisses me off to no end to hear all that racket when someone else at the campground fires one up. I won't be "that guy".

 

[mikeford]

Honda's cost more for a reason, and its not just the name, they work, day in, day out, without fuss.

 

[mikeford]

OTOH I know many that get by ok with the little $89 on sale Harbor Freight.

 

[natto fire]

Honda's cost more for a reason, and its not just the name, they work, day in, day out, without fuss.

They are the quintessential example of "you get what you pay for". Briggs, Kohler, and Tecumseh make pretty decent small engines, but Honda is in a tier by itself. Fanboy railroad, or whatever, in my 20 years of using small engines, Honda has consistently been the easiest to start, most reliable, and quietest, by leaps and bounds.

When you start getting into bigger motors (above 10HP) then Kawasaki and Kohler have more of an impact, but below that Honda is superior.

 

[WackyDan]

Please share? I'm in the market for something similar for my 5th wheel RV. 3000 might even power one rooftop AC unit. 900.00 for an inverter type is a great price for something with that output.

I won't do a standard cage type for reasons you already mentioned, plus it pisses me off to no end to hear all that racket when someone else at the campground fires one up. I won't be "that guy".

http://www.championpowerequipment.com/generators/75531i/

Has decent reviews and has a standard RV style outlet so you don't need an adapter. It will power your rood unit based on the reviews. You can find this one at Amazon, Camping World, and Woodcraft for various prices... Amazon was cheaper of course.

 

[WackyDan]

Honda's cost more for a reason, and its not just the name, they work, day in, day out, without fuss.

No doubt. The Honda 3000 is larger and heavier, and that is certainly due to better build. That said, the Honda 3000 watt is $3100.

If I was going to run it a lot, on a near monthly basis, the honda might be the best choice.

For me the $900 2800 watt (3100 surge) is the best balance between need and amount of use.

If money were no object, the Honda would have already been in my grubby paws.

 

[LTC8K6]

Generac XP series generators have what they call Truepower, which should be very clean power.

 

[Red Squirrel]

It sucks that they put all these fragile electronics in stuff that does not need it though, like fridges. If it was not for that you could run it straight off dirty power and it would be fine. The only thing I can think of is to run it off a true sine inverter that is being powered by a 12v power supply. Kinda crude though.

But if it's just the fridge your worried about, just put water in a bucket, put it outside for a few hours so it freezes, then put the ice block in the fridge (still in the bucket). The more buckets, the better. For the freezer, it may be easier to just put stuff in bins and put it outside.

You can probably put snow in the bucket to speed up the freezing as well.

 

[highland145]

Power went out after my last post and is still off. Used the generator for the fridge and it didn't blow up so I'm happy. Sure my neighbors were a little miffed when I was the only guy on the block with lights....and coffee.

 

[z1ggy]

Exactly. So how do I get this via the generator or do I not need to worry about it?

Just had her house re-wired in the last month. Built in 1953 with 14ga and, iirc, my Dad said most of the wall plugs were on the same circuit. I know the new wire is 12ga and I'll check on the outlets on that circuit.

The inverter generator that people are mentioning isn't going to help with voltage spikes, etc. The generator works by converting the AC output to DC, then filters that DC signal, then converts it back to AC again -a much cleaner AC signal than the generator first output.

The moral of the story is, the generator you have is fine unless you are using it to power electronics sensitive to frequency. And that you don't need the voltage regulator you purchased either. If a huge power spike like lightning or something hits, you're most likely boned.

The frying of your mom's fridge electronics could be due to a variety of other things, too. The connector that actually plugs into the wall socket might be shorting, or the power supply internal to the fridge could be crapping out. Impossible to tell with out checking it out more closely.