VMWare Workstation Machine: Which should I choose?

[XLNC]

I'm switching jobs at work, and I can choose from one of these two desktops. The primary purpose of this machine will be to test/package applications in 2-3 VMs at a time. I'll be loading up various VMs and snapshots repeatedly. At my own expense, I'm considering adding 24-32GB RAM and upgrading to a 256GB SSD.

Here are my options, which should I chose? (Win 7 Enterprise on both)
Machine 1:
HP 6200 Desktop
Sandy Bridge G630 Dual Core CPU @ 2.7Ghz
4 GB RAM Dual Channel
Western Digital 250GB HDD WD2500AKX

Machine 2:
HP Z400 Workstation
Intel Xeon W3505 Quad Core CPU @ 2.53 Ghz
6 GB RAM ECC RAM Triple Channel
2x Western Digital 160GB HDD WD1600JS

I know it seems like a no brainer to choose machine #2, but I'll have to buy ECC RAM for it which I may not get use out of it later when I leave this job. I've noticed that the extra RAM has helped with caching VM snapshots for near instant load times. An SSD should help with initial loading of the VMs, and saving snapshots to disk.

Thoughts?

 

[DaveSimmons]

Will you be using multiple VMs actively at the same time, or mostly just running one then switching to running another one while the previous one sits idle?

The Xeon cores would help more with keeping multiple VMs active at the same time, such as a desktop and server VM talking to each other. If you are single-tasking and swapping the dual-core should be fine for that.

 

[XLNC]

I'll be mostly using 2 VMs at a time, and sometimes 3. I'll be installing applications in both VMs simultaneously, along with file transfer operations to get files in and out of the VMs.

 

[paperwastage]

from http://cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=Intel+Xeon+W3505+@+2.53GHz

looks like the Xeon (2096 score) is below the G630 (2573 score)

I would go for the ECC mem though...

not sure if I'd like running 3 VMs on a dual core (with no hyper-threading) machine...

 

[Ken g6]

One thing to realize is that the G630 is probably on an H61 mobo. As such you'll be lucky to get 16GB RAM on that thing, and it will need expensive 8GB modules just to get there.

Thus, another vote for the Xeon.

 

[mfenn]

from http://cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=Intel+Xeon+W3505+@+2.53GHz

looks like the Xeon (2096 score) is below the G630 (2573 score)

I would go for the ECC mem though...

not sure if I'd like running 3 VMs on a dual core (with no hyper-threading) machine...

The problem with PassMark is that it's a bullshit number that doesn't mean anything. In the OP's situation, the Xeon will blow the G620 away.

 

[mfenn]

One thing to realize is that the G630 is probably on an H61 mobo. As such you'll be lucky to get 16GB RAM on that thing, and it will need expensive 8GB modules just to get there.

Thus, another vote for the Xeon.

Agree.

You're playing with fire by putting your own personal parts into a work computer though. Option 2 is the better machine but it's still not great for your usage. If your employer doesn't want to pay to upgrade it, that's fine, you just work a little slower.

 

[yinan]

You will definitely need more RAM than that, 16 or 32 is what I would recommend minimum for a machine for this use.

 

[XLNC]

One thing to realize is that the G630 is probably on an H61 mobo. As such you'll be lucky to get 16GB RAM on that thing, and it will need expensive 8GB modules just to get there.

Thus, another vote for the Xeon.

Good point, I didn't think of that. The only reason I considered the G630 machine is because of cheap 32 GB RAM possibility. This now seems unlikely.

Agree.

You're playing with fire by putting your own personal parts into a work computer though. Option 2 is the better machine but it's still not great for your usage. If your employer doesn't want to pay to upgrade it, that's fine, you just work a little slower.

I know what you're saying. Luckily, my previous manager is in charge of hardware and he's very lenient with me. He hooked me up with option # 2, which I normally wouldn't have. Working slower is always an option, but being a hardware geek, I can't resist the temptation to maximize my work computer.

Thanks everyone for your suggestions. I guess the Xeon is the better bet. I guess I can always sell the ECC RAM later on, or I might go IB-E or Haswell-E for my next rig. Any suggestions on the SSD? I'm currently looking at the 256GB Samsung 830 and the Crucial M4.

 

[imagoon]

I'm switching jobs at work, and I can choose from one of these two desktops. The primary purpose of this machine will be to test/package applications in 2-3 VMs at a time. I'll be loading up various VMs and snapshots repeatedly. At my own expense, I'm considering adding 24-32GB RAM and upgrading to a 256GB SSD.

Here are my options, which should I chose? (Win 7 Enterprise on both)
Machine 1:
HP 6200 Desktop
Sandy Bridge G630 Dual Core CPU @ 2.7Ghz
4 GB RAM Dual Channel
Western Digital 250GB HDD WD2500AKX

Machine 2:
HP Z400 Workstation
Intel Xeon W3505 Quad Core CPU @ 2.53 Ghz
6 GB RAM ECC RAM Triple Channel
2x Western Digital 160GB HDD WD1600JS

I know it seems like a no brainer to choose machine #2, but I'll have to buy ECC RAM for it which I may not get use out of it later when I leave this job. I've noticed that the extra RAM has helped with caching VM snapshots for near instant load times. An SSD should help with initial loading of the VMs, and saving snapshots to disk.

Thoughts?

Machine 2. Send in a parts request to your manager for the other parts. If they want you to work, they will give you what you need to work.

 

[XLNC]

Machine 2. Send in a parts request to your manager for the other parts. If they want you to work, they will give you what you need to work.

Believe me, I wouldn't even consider buying my own parts if I could avoid it. The other two folks who are already doing my future job have machine #1. I recently convinced management to get them up to 8 GB of RAM, which is still a bottleneck. They resort to working on one VM at a time, staring at the screen, and the repeating the same tests on the second VM.

I work at a large company where budget has been tight recently, and the purchasing dept runs the show. If I'm lucky, management will see the benefit of the upgrades and I could one day be reimbursed.

 

[imagoon]

Believe me, I wouldn't even consider buying my own parts if I could avoid it. The other two folks who are already doing my future job have machine #1. I recently convinced management to get them up to 8 GB of RAM, which is still a bottleneck. They resort to working on one VM at a time, staring at the screen, and the repeating the same tests on the second VM.

I work at a large company where budget has been tight recently, and the purchasing dept runs the show. If I'm lucky, management will see the benefit of the upgrades and I could one day be reimbursed.

I personally wouldn't want to play with the fire myself. If you buy your own ram and some how the machine dies, who will be blamed and potentially be given the pink slip? If money is tight, your salary might be a good cost cutting step (think like HR is what I mean.)

 

[XLNC]

I personally wouldn't want to play with the fire myself. If you buy your own ram and some how the machine dies, who will be blamed and potentially be given the pink slip? If money is tight, your salary might be a good cost cutting step (think like HR is what I mean.)

That's a bit of an extreme case, but it's certainly a possibility in some places. In my situation though, as I mentioned before my current/soon to be ex-manager is in charge of hardware and he gave me the go ahead to do this. It helps that I work in I.T. and I can get exceptions granted.

 

[imagoon]

That's a bit of an extreme case, but it's certainly a possibility in some places. In my situation though, as I mentioned before my current/soon to be ex-manager is in charge of hardware and he gave me the go ahead to do this. It helps that I work in I.T. and I can get exceptions granted.

To be honest, you wouldn't believe the number of people that don't even think about it. That is why I mentioned it. Also as IT I am responsible for quite a few frankenDells myself.

 

[mfenn]

Thanks everyone for your suggestions. I guess the Xeon is the better bet. I guess I can always sell the ECC RAM later on, or I might go IB-E or Haswell-E for my next rig.

Make sure that you check whether the RAM is unbuffered or registered. Given the low capacity, I am betting that it is unbuffered, but you need to confirm it since you can't mix the two types.

Any suggestions on the SSD? I'm currently looking at the 256GB Samsung 830 and the Crucial M4.

Both are very good choices. The M4 is about 10-15% cheaper, but maybe 15-20% slower on average. So they are roughly comparable in terms of value, it just comes down to how much you want to spend.

 

[XLNC]

Make sure that you check whether or not the RAM is unbuffered or registered. Given the low capacity, I am betting that it is unbuffered, but you need to confirm it since you can't mix the two types.

Hmmm... you're right, it's unbuffered. That's unfortunate since the 8 GB sticks I was eyeing are the registered kind. Do I have to use ECC RAM? Can I go full out with non-ECC? It's unlikely that I will do this but just want to know what my options are.

 

[mfenn]

Hmmm... you're right, it's unbuffered. That's unfortunate since the 8 GB sticks I was eyeing are the registered kind. Do I have to use ECC RAM? Can I go full out with non-ECC? It's unlikely that I will do this but just want to know what my options are.

I looked up the QuickSpecs for the Z400, and it doesn't support registered memory at all, so you will need to get unbuffered. Non-ECC RAM might work, but HP specifically states that they are not supported, so I wouldn't bet on it.

The biggest DIMM that the Z400 supports is 4GB. There are apparently two different mobos, one with 4 DIMM slots and one with 6. That makes the maximum memory 16GB or 24GB depending on which one you have.

Luckily, unbuffered ECC is relatively cheap, only about twice as much as non-ECC memory. These Kingston sticks for $34 each look good to me. $136 for 16GB or $204 for 24GB.

 

[XLNC]

I looked up the QuickSpecs for the Z400, and it doesn't support registered memory at all, so you will need to get unbuffered. Non-ECC RAM might work, but HP specifically states that they are not supported, so I wouldn't bet on it.

The biggest DIMM that the Z400 supports is 4GB. There are apparently two different mobos, one with 4 DIMM slots and one with 6. That makes the maximum memory 16GB or 24GB depending on which one you have.

Luckily, unbuffered ECC is relatively cheap, only about twice as much as non-ECC memory. These Kingston sticks for $34 each look good to me. $136 for 16GB or $204 for 24GB.

This is all great information that will save me a ton of potential hassle. Thanks! This workstation has a socket 1366 mobo, so I'll start with 3 x 4 GB unbuffered ECC DIMMs and try to convince management of the benefits.

As a bonus, I scored one of the newer workstations with updated specs!
NEW Machine 2:
Xeon W3550 Quad CPU @ 3.07 Ghz
8 GB RAM (4 x 2 GB, even though it's tri-channel. Users wanted the extra RAM.)
2x 500 GB Hitachi HDDs.
Quadro 4000 GPU

Thanks again to everyone that helped with this thread.

 

[mfenn]

Movin' on up. Maybe if you hold out for a little longer they'll throw an even better machine in the mix. :awe:

 

[SolMiester]

Biggest issue I have with VMs is I/O and memory, most of the time, the cpu is doing next to nothing....
So I would ensure you have a separate disk from your O/S just for the VMS

 

[XLNC]

Movin' on up. Maybe if you hold out for a little longer they'll throw an even better machine in the mix. :awe:

Actually, I've been using a Z800 which I mentioned in this thread for this kind of work till now but it's getting reassigned . Otherwise, it's possible I could've just kept it for my new job.

Biggest issue I have with VMs is I/O and memory, most of the time, the cpu is doing next to nothing....
So I would ensure you have a separate disk from your O/S just for the VMS

I was planning to use an SSD I'll be getting for both the OS and the VMs, figuring it could handle both I/O easily. I planned on using the HDDs for storage. Is this not advisable then?

 

[mfenn]

I was planning to use an SSD I'll be getting for both the OS and the VMs, figuring it could handle both I/O easily. I planned on using the HDDs for storage. Is this not advisable then?

Yes, an SSD can push the types of IOPS necessary to keep a lot of VMs happy and still have the main OS be responsive.

 

[XLNC]

Some good news. My management has agreed to upgrade all the machines in my group after seeing some benchmarks I ran between Machine #1 and Machine #2 w/ SSD.

Here are the results:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AsirKyrxaICidDRGSnk5REZUTlZ1VTdubE44REo2QVE

I didn't have to buy the RAM, my company upgraded it from 8 GB to 12 GB. That was enough once I reduced the memory in my VMs. I went with the Samsung 830 256GB for SSD. I'll have them buy me a new one so I can throw the current one in my home rig. Things worked out well.

 

[mfenn]

Awesome! Science wins again.