Vista "Start" Menu

[DasFox]

I wrote this letter to MS, but never received any reply.

=======================================

I'm really surprised for all of the work that went into Vista, one SIMPLE request made to improve the start menu was never made for the sake of, "ORGANIZATION"

Here are screen shots from Imageshack.com showing this idea, allowing programs to be placed under folders of certain categories.

http://img109.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ss1ig6.jpg
http://img112.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ss2at2.jpg
http://img109.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ss3pj8.jpg
http://img461.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ss4du8.jpg

These screen shots show the Classic menu, but even with the Modern style start menu, accessing the programs would still arrange them in this way for easy organization, rather then just letting them fill up the menu and expand it's size.

I would greatly appreciate it if this information would PLEASE be passed along to the correct development team that would handle matters such as this, and that a possible update now for Vista in the future would come out to allow this customization.

This would of been a great feature, had Microsoft thought about it, and they should of, after all one aspect of the OS is to have organization in the way you use it to make life, as they say easier.

I'd greatly appreciate it if someone can contact me at my email address to discuss this possible update.

Thank you

P.S. Anyone here on AnandTech that work for Microsoft can pass this along to the right people that can look into this?

 

[Shawn]

Too complicated. They did add a separate game menu though.

 

[stash]

I can't figure out what you're asking for, sorry.

But whatever it is, I doubt it would meet the SP1 bar. You might want to post over on the Shell team blog.
http://shellrevealed.com/blogs/shellblog/default.aspx

 

[craniumdesigns]

can't u just arrange the start menu yourself like that?

 

[DasFox]

Originally posted by: stash
I can't figure out what you're asking for, sorry.

But whatever it is, I doubt it would meet the SP1 bar. You might want to post over on the Shell team blog.
http://shellrevealed.com/blogs/shellblog/default.aspx

This isn't complicated, look at the Menu, notice these folders:

CD-DVD
Internet
Multimedia
Office
P2P
System

Etc....

I added these and placed applications in these folders that fell into this style of categories to not allow the menu from just placing things in it, and you end up with the typical BIG MENU.

Get it?

 

[DasFox]

Originally posted by: craniumdesigns
can't u just arrange the start menu yourself like that?

Yes of course you can make your own folders in the start menu, but it would of been nice if MS made some sort of GUI front end to this allowing the users a way to do this a bit simpler.

Granted it's not hard at all, but a nice little GUI in the Control Panel would of been nicer, or some other way of incorporating this.

ALOHA

 

[JonnyBlaze]

Doesn't look at like a good idea at all to me.

 

[stash]

Yeah I get it, but why aren't you just doing that yourself like craniumdesigns suggests?

Right click the Orb and choose explore all users. Go nuts.

 

[Hurricane Andrew]

With the built in start-search, I don't even bother scrolling and digging into menus and submenus anymore. Just press the Windows and start typing the name of the program, and press enter. It's MUCH quicker and easier, and you don't have to go back and forth between the keyboard and mouse. I had to force myself to start using it (since like any hardcore user the first thing I did after install was switch to the classic start menu), but now I hate working on someone elses' XP box.

 

[her34]

Originally posted by: stash
Yeah I get it, but why aren't you just doing that yourself like craniumdesigns suggests?

Right click the Orb and choose explore all users. Go nuts.

i believe the OP point isn't how to do this, but that it's useful enough that it should be built into windows itself

personally, i do organize folders this way. the only problem with doing it yourself is when you uninstall. some programs don't let you customize the start menu so you have to move the shortcut. if you uninstall, the moved shortcuts won't automatically be deleted.

 

[loup garou]

Originally posted by: Hurricane Andrew
With the built in start-search, I don't even bother scrolling and digging into menus and submenus anymore. Just press the Windows and start typing the name of the program, and press enter. It's MUCH quicker and easier, and you don't have to go back and forth between the keyboard and mouse. I had to force myself to start using it (since like any hardcore user the first thing I did after install was switch to the classic start menu), but now I hate working on someone elses' XP box.

Yep, same here. I don't think I've ever even clicked "all programs" on my Vista installs.

 

[stash]

i believe the OP point isn't how to do this, but that it's useful enough that it should be built into windows itself

That's certainly debatable. When you're designing something for hundreds of millions of people, do you really want to be deciding how folders in the start menu should be organized? Or at least, should you be deciding how third-party (non-Microsoft) applications are organized?

Putting that aside, how would it be determined what goes where? Just looking at the pics above, why is Firefox in the Internet folder and not IE or MSN? Why is Adobe Reader not in the Utilities folder? Or Remote Assistance? Or is Adobe Reader something that belongs in Internet? WMP is multimedia...etc etc.

The search feature in Vista's start menu makes a lot of this irrelevant anyway. I used to do the same sort of organization on XP because otherwise the start menu would become a mess. In Vista, I don't care because I almost never look at the programs folder. I just type what I want to run into search and hit enter.

 

[Smilin]

Uh, I think we're missing something here folks. Most of the start menu isn't built by microsoft. It's built by application installers.

MS already does organization around it's own stuff. Anyone remember "Accessories?", "System tools"??

Also, be careful what you ask for: Those screenshots have a "usenet" category, "multimedia" category, separate "CD-DVD" category. Where do you put Nero at? Multimedia or CD-DVD? Do you put it in both? Just have one to begin with? You'll get app installers putting crap everywhere making up their own categories (which they already do...the category is typically the name of the software company so you get an extra click to reach the program).

I'm happy there is a Games category in Vista. People wanted it, they got it. Beyond that you gotta be careful or it will get stupid fast...


edit: Where did you send this to Das? There are some things (mswish) that generate get a lot of volume so may not get replies. Nothing gets ignored tho. If this didn't make it then most likely it got shot down

 

[DasFox]

Guys these are just screenshots showing an IDEA, nothing is 100% with why everything isn't in those folders that should be.

The IDEA was to be able to have this type of ORGANIZATION, and then leave it up to the end-user what they want in their folder directories as I have done.

Right click the Orb and choose explore all users. Go nuts. Hmm not sure I understand, I had Vista installed only to test it out for gaming on my GameRig, but the game play wasn't good so I uninstalled it.

ALOHA

 

[her34]

Originally posted by: Hurricane Andrew
With the built in start-search, I don't even bother scrolling and digging into menus and submenus anymore. Just press the Windows and start typing the name of the program, and press enter. It's MUCH quicker and easier, and you don't have to go back and forth between the keyboard and mouse. I had to force myself to start using it (since like any hardcore user the first thing I did after install was switch to the classic start menu), but now I hate working on someone elses' XP box.

for average user, having to remember the name of the programs they want to use takes more effort than clicking through menus.


as other people have pointed out, msft defining all categories for software is messy, as bad as if msft were to define how to organize your internet bookmarks for you. on the other hand, apps being free to set shortcuts as they see fit also makes a mess:

some apps don't make folders, some apps make a company folder first and then app subfolder, etc

 

[stash]

The IDEA was to be able to have this type of ORGANIZATION, and then leave it up to the end-user what they want in their folder directories as I have done

Right, I get that. But the problem as Smilin and I pointed out, is what should that organization be?

The end user already has the ability to organize the folder directories however they want, so why mess with it?

 

[DasFox]

The only way I know of organizing the Start Menu is by unhiding the directories and working directly in them, through Windows Explorer.

 

[Chaotic42]

I do that immediately when I install Windows. I can't imagine using the computer without it being like that.

 

[Frintin]

I think it would have been and still would be a nice way to organize the "All Programs" area of Vista. As it is in release it is just a mess! Install your stuff and in no time it is a long list of little bitty text that takes forever to find your stuff in. Well takes forever if you do not spend forever organizing it yourself.

 

[thegorx]

To me the all programs menu is just in case I can't find a shortcut
I generally use the classic menu
then right click on the start button and either use open or open all users depending on the shortcuts then create folders there instead of the all program directory
so it looks like

games >
multimedia >
office >
Windows tools >
--------------
programs >

 

[Roguestar]

Because a lot of programs are hard to classify into those categories, some programs will need to be in an "other" or "misc" category (which looks unprofessional) and some would need to be inserted into more than one category.

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by: Frintin
I think it would have been and still would be a nice way to organize the "All Programs" area of Vista. As it is in release it is just a mess! Install your stuff and in no time it is a long list of little bitty text that takes forever to find your stuff in. Well takes forever if you do not spend forever organizing it yourself.

No matter how you organized that would end up happening. It's up to the App installers to decide where they want to place thier start menu shortcuts. They already do that annoying "start\program files\developer who thinks he's important\name of program\actual program" thing.

If your Vista is a mess in release, are you using an OEM box? The retail install is pretty clean IMHO.

 

[loup garou]

All of this Start Menu organization discussion is really overkill, considering all your average user cares about is where their browser, IM, Word, and iTunes shortcuts are. And usually, they use 4 of their half a zillion desktop shortcuts to access them.

 

[VIAN]

Too structured. However, you can do that yourself.

 

[drag]

Ummm....

This is EXACTLY how Debian does it.

Applications are catagorized by use and purpose.

Screenshots:
This is menu -> games -> board
http://img96.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshot1nu9.png

menu -> games -> card
http://img96.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshot4ky9.png

This is menu -> apps -> graphics
http://img134.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshot3zr4.png

Then on my Window manager it also has the Debian menu on the background. So I can just click on the background anywere and get the same menu, although I don't realy use it.
http://img96.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshot2xc6.png


I always Microsoft has it setup the way they do because it's for the application designers.

This way the application makers get a cheap form of advertisement everytime you click through the start menu and onto the application. Or even if this is not intential on MS's part it certainly is on the application maker's part.