Vista and Starforce...uugghhh

[tydas]

OK, here is what happened..Did a clean install of vista about a month and a half ago and everything worked fine, no bsod's could burn dvd and cd, etc.

Just recently i installed space rangers 2 and to make it work i had to install the vista compatible starforce drivers. the game worked fine.

Now comes this week, went to burn an i tunes cd, no luck, just hung and would not burn. eventually came back with an error message, tried to burn a data dvd with vista's built in software and it would not work. Took the dvd drive to another computer that had xp with no starforce and it can burn everything fine on that computer so it is not the drive.

I uninstalled the game, starforce drivers and even reinstalled the dvd drive and it still does not work..in addition to that vista has performance issues in games so at this point I think I am going to reformat with a clean xp install.

Any suggestions before i leave vista would be appreciated..

ps..i blame starforce not vista but at this point i think my vista experiment is over...

 

[Mem]

You can run Space Rangers 2 without Starforce,install SP2 but don't try and play just yet,then go here and download SP2 v1.0 no CD fixed exe,replace the one in SP2 with this one,then you can play without Starforce ever having to be installed.


I have been playing my retail SP2 with "No CD hack" in Vista x64 with zero problems and no Starforce 🙂.

 

[Tegeril]

The solution isn't to go back to XP. It's to not buy games protected by Starforce.

 

[tydas]

Originally posted by: Tegeril
The solution isn't to go back to XP. It's to not buy games protected by Starforce.

Foolish mistake on my part...but, live and learn...

 

[Mem]

Originally posted by: Tegeril
The solution isn't to go back to XP. It's to not buy games protected by Starforce.

You can buy Starforce games,just check there's a Starforce no CD hack first,like above 😉.

Space Rangers 2 does not install any Starforce drivers until you hit play,however on Vista you have to go to their website to download them.

 

[Tegeril]

Yeah, but if you buy games that are Starforce protected, you are indirectly supporting the use of Starforce. =(

 

[tydas]

Well, i found the issue, just reinstalled the IDE drivers and I can burn again..I cannot understand how this company continues to exist when everyone hates it and it screws up your computer...

 

[tommo123]

because people keep on buying games with this garbage on there!

 

[Schadenfroh]

Originally posted by: Tegeril
The solution isn't to go back to XP. It's to not buy games protected by Starforce.

DRM is getting so bad that it is going to force most PC gamers to go to console games eventually.

 

[tydas]

Originally posted by: tommo123
because people keep on buying games with this garbage on there!

the root cause is that people are stealing software, which is why drm is needed...so yes starforce sux but people who steal are the real culprits..

 

[nismotigerwvu]

If they didn't push crappy, non-innovative at prices sometimes double of that of their entertainment value then people wouldn't pirate. See movies for another fine example (I.E good movies tend to do well at the box office, sometimes without any hype besides that from people coming out of the door ala Borat)

 

[Tegeril]

Originally posted by: tydas

Originally posted by: tommo123
because people keep on buying games with this garbage on there!

the root cause is that people are stealing software, which is why drm is needed...so yes starforce sux but people who steal are the real culprits..

There are plenty of other DRM methods that are not system crippling and restrictive such that if the DRM maker were to no longer be around, they would not be able to authorize.

The choice of StarForce instead of SecuROM 7 for example, has nothing to do with piracy.

 

[Markbnj]

If they didn't push crappy, non-innovative at prices sometimes double of that of their entertainment value then people wouldn't pirate. See movies for another fine example (I.E good movies tend to do well at the box office, sometimes without any hype besides that from people coming out of the door ala Borat)

Baseless comment, imo.

 

[masteraleph]

Originally posted by: Markbnj

If they didn't push crappy, non-innovative at prices sometimes double of that of their entertainment value then people wouldn't pirate. See movies for another fine example (I.E good movies tend to do well at the box office, sometimes without any hype besides that from people coming out of the door ala Borat)

Baseless comment, imo.

Not at all. Starcraft, which completely lacks copy protection, sold phenomenally well and managed to not piss people off. That was a selling point, actually.

 

[Noema]

Originally posted by: masteraleph

Originally posted by: Markbnj

If they didn't push crappy, non-innovative at prices sometimes double of that of their entertainment value then people wouldn't pirate. See movies for another fine example (I.E good movies tend to do well at the box office, sometimes without any hype besides that from people coming out of the door ala Borat)

Baseless comment, imo.

Not at all. Starcraft, which completely lacks copy protection, sold phenomenally well and managed to not piss people off. That was a selling point, actually.

Yeah, but then again, unless you had a legit copy, you couldn't play on Battle.net. That was incentive enough for most people.

My beef with Star force and other forms of copy protection like DRM is that they only work to affect legitimate consumers, for the most part, because they target casual piracy, not organized, en masse piracy which is what really affects the industry.

Pirates who d/l the games get cracked versions which are protection-free. People in 3rd world countries who buy pirated games, music and DVDs from the black market get cracked versions with no form of protection whatsoever. Copy protection doesn't even begin to scathe them. People who illegally acquire media and know where to get it don't have to deal protection. It's all transparent to them.

Oftentimes, it's the legitimate consumer who has to deal with the trials and tribulations of rootkits, online activation, limited usability, region-locked content and borderline malware like Starforce. They are the ones who are forced to watch non-skippable, ridiculous 'You wouldn't steal a car!!!!' propaganda, while the real pirates are watching an ad free version of the movie.

As a legitimate, paying consumer, this annoys me to no end. I have already tasted the bitter poison of DRM on content and I don't like it. Companies should start to realize that, and know who their real threats are.

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: Noema
Yeah, but then again, unless you had a legit copy, you couldn't play on Battle.net. That was incentive enough for most people.

My beef with Star force and other forms of copy protection like DRM is that they only work to affect legitimate consumers, for the most part, because they target casual piracy, not organized, en masse piracy which is what really affects the industry.

Pirates who d/l the games get cracked versions which are protection-free. People in 3rd world countries who buy pirated games, music and DVDs from the black market get cracked versions with no form of protection whatsoever. Copy protection doesn't even begin to scathe them. People who illegally acquire media and know where to get it don't have to deal protection. It's all transparent to them.

Oftentimes, it's the legitimate consumer who has to deal with the trials and tribulations of rootkits, online activation, limited usability, region-locked content and borderline malware like Starforce. They are the ones who are forced to watch non-skippable, ridiculous 'You wouldn't steal a car!!!!' propaganda, while the real pirates are watching an ad free version of the movie.

As a legitimate, paying consumer, this annoys me to no end. I have already tasted the bitter poison of DRM on content and I don't like it. Companies should start to realize that, and know who their real threats are.

This is entirely true.
When people can't play WoW because Telia Carrier screwed up, people are going to blame Blizzard, not TC, and rightly so.
It might not directly be their fault, but they're selling the service, so they're responsible towards the people they sell it to.

Same deal here.
If I buy a game, I expect it to work in a reasonably good fashion, gaming companies can blame whoever they want, I just don't care, I want to play the damn game I bought.
Actually I find it funny that most games that I actually do enjoy(very few these days), are games that I could easily pirate because they don't include annoying copy protections, but I still buy them, whereas with most games that contain StarForce and junk like that, the games themselves suck as well.
Guess they don't want people copying the games and finding out how much they suck before buying them 😀

 

[sourceninja]

I refuse to buy games with copy protection that requires the CD to play. I recently bought Strategic commander, only because they released a patch which removed the securerom protection.

 

[Markbnj]

Originally posted by: masteraleph

Originally posted by: Markbnj

If they didn't push crappy, non-innovative at prices sometimes double of that of their entertainment value then people wouldn't pirate. See movies for another fine example (I.E good movies tend to do well at the box office, sometimes without any hype besides that from people coming out of the door ala Borat)

Baseless comment, imo.

Not at all. Starcraft, which completely lacks copy protection, sold phenomenally well and managed to not piss people off. That was a selling point, actually.

So you're saying that people didn't pirate Starcraft because it was worth paying for? I'm not aware of any data that links levels of piracy to quality, and the idea that people only steal low-quality stuff that isn't worth paying for is silly.

 

[PingSpike]

Originally posted by: tydas

Originally posted by: tommo123
because people keep on buying games with this garbage on there!

the root cause is that people are stealing software, which is why drm is needed...so yes starforce sux but people who steal are the real culprits..

Perhaps they should try a method that punishes those people, instead of the ones that buy the game.

 

[tydas]

Originally posted by: PingSpike

Originally posted by: tydas

Originally posted by: tommo123
because people keep on buying games with this garbage on there!

the root cause is that people are stealing software, which is why drm is needed...so yes starforce sux but people who steal are the real culprits..

Perhaps they should try a method that punishes those people, instead of the ones that buy the game.

I never said Starforce was good, it is an industry reaction to a perceived profit loss issue. I'd imagine Starforce is popular with publishers because its cheaper than other DRM protection and they 'perceive' that it works. With slim profit margins they choose this method and having 10% of users experience issues is acceptable to them. Personally, I?ll think twice about buying a starforce protected game in the future.

 

[Markbnj]

Originally posted by: tydas

Originally posted by: PingSpike

Originally posted by: tydas

Originally posted by: tommo123
because people keep on buying games with this garbage on there!

the root cause is that people are stealing software, which is why drm is needed...so yes starforce sux but people who steal are the real culprits..

Perhaps they should try a method that punishes those people, instead of the ones that buy the game.

I never said Starforce was good, it is an industry reaction to a perceived profit loss issue. I'd imagine Starforce is popular with publishers because its cheaper than other DRM protection and they 'perceive' that it works. With slim profit margins they choose this method and having 10% of users experience issues is acceptable to them. Personally, I?ll think twice about buying a starforce protected game in the future.

Exactly. The executives at the top tier of these companies are often sitting around a conference table trying to find $5m, or $10m, or $50m from somewhere, anywhere, to turn an unsuccessful year into a successful one, or a successful one into a really successful one. If you guide toward $0.12 a share, and you're coming in at $0.10 a share, that's going to be portrayed negatively everywhere. No bonus, salary increase, or additional perqs may be expected. Find a little revenue and turn that into $0.13 a share and you're hero. All good things shower down upon you.

The reason they tend toward copy protection is simply because they can. Some manager has convinced them that it will convert x% of pirates into legitimate customers and generate y dollars in return. It's not moral, and they're not offended. They probably copy tunes and movies themselves. It's just because they can. You couldn't keep people from making tapes of LPs, but the digital world opens up these possibilities, and the fact that it is, after all, their property gives them no disincentive to protect it any way they can. Furthermore, they will never, ever be able to tell after the fact if the practice actually delivered x customers and y revenue. The manager who suggested it will easily be able to suggest it did. Nobody else will be able to prove it didn't. And since the herd quickly follows along they don't need any further justification anyway. So the practice continues, little blips like the EMI/Apple deal notwithstanding.

There is really only once choice for the consumer in terms of affecting the dynamic, and that is to not purchase copy-protected IP. If there's no market there won't be a copy-protected product. If you feel strongly about it, don't buy it. What's more likely in my view is that people get comfortable with it, and it never goes away.

 

[IEC]

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh

Originally posted by: Tegeril
The solution isn't to go back to XP. It's to not buy games protected by Starforce.

DRM is getting so bad that it is going to force most PC gamers to go to console games eventually.

I've considered more than once giving up the endless cycle of upgrading and tinkering on the PC... and dumbing-down my gaming experience to the console. Thankfully I can just pick and choose games to buy rather than buying games with Starforce 🙂

Although this is becoming a non-issue with less and less time for gaming... gaming may just end up dying for me altogether.