Virtualization machine

[theevilsharpie]

1. What YOUR PC will be used for. That means what types of tasks you'll be performing.

My primary goal is to build a computer that can run a virtual machine lab to support my on-going IT studies and to assist me in prototyping new designs. The previous computer I built to support this goal allowed me to run about 10-15 Windows XP and Windows Server 2003 virtual machines simultaneously while still maintaining acceptable performance. This new build must allow me to run about 10-15 Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 R2 virtual machines while maintaining acceptable performance.

Based on my past experience, my bottleneck will be a lack of physical memory, which consequently causes a disk bottleneck due to excessive paging. Therefore, the ideal platform will allow me to use as much physical memory as economically feasible, and I would not be opposed to running a multi-processor workstation/server platform with access to greater amounts of physical memory if it met my budget constraints.

CPU contention is also a bottleneck when running a large number of virtual machines. Virtual machine stability and performance drops substantially if virtual machines are not able to receive CPU cycles in a timely manner. The more processor cores I have, the better the virtual machines will perform.

My secondary goal is to be able to do light gaming. My current equipment meets my needs in this regard, although I may upgrade to a faster video card at some point in the future.

Finally, I’d like the machine to be as quiet as possible. Also, while it should go without saying, the computer also has to be stable.

2. What YOUR budget is. A price range is acceptable as long as it's not more than a 20% spread

Preferably under $1,000, but I can go as high as $1,250 if it gives me access to substantially more physical memory.

3. What country YOU will be buying YOUR parts from.

USA

4. IF YOU have a brand preference. That means, are you an Intel-Fanboy, AMD-Fanboy, ATI-Fanboy, nVidia-Fanboy, Seagate-Fanboy, WD-Fanboy, etc.

No particular brand, but I hold on to my computers for a long time (my current PC is pushing five years), so I’d prefer to invest in a platform with longevity.

As far as cases go, I prefer conservatively-styled cases (e.g. no case windows, LED’s, oddly-shaped cases, etc). In other words, the types of computer you’d find in a business office.

5. If YOU intend on using any of YOUR current parts, and if so, what those parts are.

I will be re-using the following:
- 500W SeaSonic PSU
- Geforce 8800GTS-512 Graphics Card (Requires PCIe x16 port)
- My existing hard drives and 3ware RAID controller (Requires PCIe x4 port or greater)
- All of my monitors
- All of my current peripherals (keyboard, mouse, speakers, etc.)
- Windows 7 Professional

6. IF YOU have searched and/or read similar threads.

Not really, but compared to other threads I’ve seen in General Hardware, my needs are a bit unique.

7. IF YOU plan on overclocking or run the system at default speeds.

I have no plans to overclock anything.

8. What resolution YOU plan on gaming with.

1920x1200 is the top resolution, although many of my games are currently played in 1600x1200 due to a lack of widescreen support.

9. WHEN do you plan to build it?

Before the end of the year, but I’m okay with delaying for a little bit if there’s going to be a substantial shift in technology and/or price in the immediate future.

And now for the parts...

Here are the parts that I specced out to meet my needs. I went with an AMD platform since I'm more familiar with them, but some of the Intel platforms support 24GB of RAM, which might be the way to go if the price is appropriate. I can also do a multi-processor board if the price is right. Any suggestions for alternate components are welcome.

1x Antec NSK 4482 Black / Silver 0.8mm cold rolled steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 380W Power Supply
1x ASUS M4A89TD PRO/USB3 AM3 AMD 890FX SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard
1x AMD Phenom II X6 1055T Thuban 2.8GHz Socket AM3 125W Six-Core Desktop Processor HDT55TFBGRBOX
2x Kingston 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10600) ECC Unbuffered Server Memory Model KVR1333D3E9SK2/8G
1x OCZ Vertex 2 OCZSSD2-2VTX40G 2.5" 40GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)
1x HP 24X Multiformat DVD Burner Black SATA Model 1270i LightScribe Support

Note 1: The SSD will be used strictly for the page file, to prevent paging from impacting the performance of my primary disk array.
Note 2: I do not intend to use the PSU that comes with the case for this build.

 

[mfenn]

I'd probably ditch the ECC memory and the 890FX mobo. These G.Skill 8GB kits are $40 cheaper per kit and in stock. The GA-870A-UD3 meets your PCIe needs, is significantly less expensive, and is available in a combo with your CPU.

On a more general note, I'd advise against trying to use this machine as a workstation. Windows 7 is significantly limiting your virtualization choices. With a separate box you can take advantage of Hyper-V, ESXi, or KVM under Linux. All of these implement some form of same page sharing, which allows you to run a ton of similar VMs.

 

[theevilsharpie]

Thanks for the heads up on the combo. According to Newegg's spec list, the GA-870A-UD3 disables the PCIe x1 ports if something is present in the PCI-e x4 slot. While that would meet my immediate need, it would essentially prevent me from adding anything else, like a sound card. I'll have to give that some thought.

I'll be using VMware Workstation 7 as my virtualization platform. ESXi, Hyper-V, Xen and the like would be able to run more virtual machines with more consistent performance, but they don't support the complicated networking and teaming functionality that VMware Workstation provides, and the user interface to the virtual machine on those hypervisors is substantially slower. On top of that, I'd still need a computer for non-virtualization tasks, and I don't have the budget for two separate machines.

 

[RebateMonger]

The general rule for a virtual machine host is to have enough CPU and enough memory to give the virtualized machines their "normal" amount of memory and CPU power. You are proposing 8 GB of memory for 10-15 machines that would normally be given 1 GB of memory each, minimum, plus whatever memory is needed for the host.

Can you continue to use your old host along with the new one? That's what I ended up doing because my I can't afford 16 GB of memory for a new server, but I did have a spare motherboarrd that'd hold 8 GB of DDR2 that I already had laying around. Since you may often only need five or six virtual machines running at a time, you may be able to keep only one box running except on "special occasions" when you need more virtual machines. Or you can use the old machine as the "always-on" machine with five or six virtual machines on be able to keep the "gaming" machine running in "gaming-mode" most of the time except when you need extra virtual machines.

 

[theevilsharpie]

The general rule for a virtual machine host is to have enough CPU and enough memory to give the virtualized machines their "normal" amount of memory and CPU power. You are proposing 8 GB of memory for 10-15 machines that would normally be given 1 GB of memory each, minimum, plus whatever memory is needed for the host.

😕 My specs listed 16GB with a SSD for a page file that will let me overcommit to probably 20-22GB before performance becomes a problem.

 

[theevilsharpie]

Can you continue to use your old host along with the new one? That's what I ended up doing because my I can't afford 16 GB of memory for a new server, but I did have a spare motherboarrd that'd hold 8 GB of DDR2 that I already had laying around. Since you may often only need five or six virtual machines running at a time, you may be able to keep only one running except on "special occasions" when you need more virtual machines. Or you can use the old machine as the "always-on" machine with five or six virtual machines on be able to keep the "gaming" machine running in "gaming-mode" most of the time except when you need extra virtual machines.

I'm taking quite a few parts from my old machine, so it'd probably end up being more expensive if I tried to keep two machines running at the same time. In addition, my old machine is quite old and beginning to show its age. I can run three, maybe four Win7/2008 VMs at most, and that's if I'm not doing anything else.

 

[RebateMonger]

😕 My specs listed 16GB with a SSD for a page file that will let me overcommit to probably 20-22GB before performance becomes a problem.

Sorry, I missed the "2x" statement at the beginning of your memory listing.

I am curious how you will use 10-15 virtual machines in personal IT studies or prototyping. Obviously you have your reasons, but that sure seems like a lot. When I was doing my XP/Server 2003 certifications, I think the most I used was five virtual machines running in 1.25 GB of memory. Obviously if you are doing clustering and SAN and such (not practical when I was doing my early virtualization work), that would make a big difference. Just curious.

 

[mfenn]

I'll be using VMware Workstation 7 as my virtualization platform. ESXi, Hyper-V, Xen and the like would be able to run more virtual machines with more consistent performance, but they don't support the complicated networking and teaming functionality that VMware Workstation provides, and the user interface to the virtual machine on those hypervisors is substantially slower. On top of that, I'd still need a computer for non-virtualization tasks, and I don't have the budget for two separate machines.

I've been trying to think of a networking setup that you can do in VMWare workstation that you can't do otherwise, but I'm failing. Care to enlighten me?

Also I didn't think that anybody who virtualized servers actually used a GPU accelerated console. Good to know that somebody actually uses that feature! :awe:

 

[theevilsharpie]

I've been trying to think of a networking setup that you can do in VMWare workstation that you can't do otherwise, but I'm failing. Care to enlighten me?

VMware Workstation allows you to create networks with limited bandwidth, it allows you to simulate a defined amount of packet loss, the provisioning and destruction of virtual networks is substantially faster, and I can limit networks to a particular team of VM's.