Virtual Surround Sound

[dmw16]

Currently I live in an apartment and the room layout isn't really conducive to setting up a 5.1 or 6.1 surround sound system. I also don't want to make holes in the wall or run wires under the carpets.

So I was thinking of getting a virtual surround sound system. I have seen the sound bar types from Yamaha and Phillips and Bose makes a 2.1 speaker setup.

My room has walls on 3 sides and is open to the dining room on the 3rd side. The couch is directly in front of the TV about 8ft away.

I don't care about it being audiophile quality. Just something that will give me the surround sound experience when watching movies or playing my Xbox 360.

Anyone care to comment on the quality of these systems?

 

[Tiamat]

its not going to be easy to get the surround effect if your room isn't the typical "shoe-box" dimensioned room with walls on all sides. Those sound bars rely on the reflection off of the surround walls so that you can get a quasi surround effect. If there is no wall to reflect off of, that virtual surround speaker will be missing.

My recommendation would be to get a stereo or 3.1 type setup to focus on good dialog clarity with a good solid front stage overall.

 

[dmw16]

How would I build such a setup? Can I get some parts now and build on it when I do move into a place where I can setup a full surround sound system?

Are there receivers that I can configure to use a 3.1 setup so that it isnt trying to send audio to rear channels that may cause me to miss certain parts of the audio?

Thanks.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Setting up a 3.1 system should be no problem with any modern receiver. Just tell it what speakers you have selected in the settings and it will work just fine.

Check out the "Upgrade Path" part of my sticky guide if you want to know what some of your options are for building up a system over time.

 

[dmw16]

Thanks.

Are there suggestions for good receivers in there?

 

[Tiamat]

For every modern receiver that I know of, 3.1 is a viable choice for output. 3.1 is what I would consider the "logical" choice for people who enjoy watching movies in their home, do not necessarily sit directly center of the screen (ie. have guests), and just cannot properly setup surround sound due to constraints of walls, decor, etc.

The next question is, what is your budget? Can you have a subwoofer? Do you watch program material by yourself or with guests? How large is the space your entertainment system is in in terms of volume? Do you want floorstanding speakers or bookshelf-sized standmount speakers?

jello's guide will most likely help you greatly, but if you have other questions feel free to ask!

Edit:
Section 2.4 has info on receivers of various price points.

 

[dmw16]

I'd say my budget is $500-$1000. Keep in mind I can get the speakers about 60% off (thru discounts at work). The reciever I will have to pay market price for. I have shelf speakers already, but would prefer floorstanding. I can have and would like a sub.

I have guests sometimes, but that is the main time we watch movies. The space is about 10x20.

I will check the guide, but feel free to give me any other thoughts.

 

[cheesehead]

Personally, I'd reccomend just getting a good pair of stereo speakers. With a nice pair of NHTs or AV123s, you won't be needing a center channel.

 

[dmw16]

NHT's or AV123s?

I have a set of JBL speakers already. They are just bookshelfs, but probably more than enough for the space. So if i want to get some stuff and start working towards a surround sound system, maybe a receiver, center channel and sub (I priced out a JBL 12" 300W sub and JBL Center channel for $325 shipped, good price?)?

 

[Tiamat]

well, for 1000$, you can get really nice 2.0 floorspeakers, or pretty nice 2.1 stand/sub combo, or "ok" 3.1 in general.

I'm sure you understand that in this price range especially, the more money that goes into each speaker, the better the quality. But of course, this generality depends on your needs/hearing. For me, the "line" gets crossed at about 4k$ per main speaker in terms of $/sq ratio. And up to that point, doubling the price really helps quite a bit.

Is it possible you audition other speakers? or are you limited by what you store has (CC, BB?).

Something like this and this sub might be a nice combination. They have options fore nice finishes if you are into that, and have in-home 30 day trial.

In your sized room, I would get either two of those subwoofers to flank your main speakers, or one of these for more bass extension and power. Either of these subs will outclass the JBL in both sound quality and output (something that is decently important in your medium-sized room).

There are many other choices, but these are some of the budget ones that offer 30-day trial just to make sure you like them or not. They will leave about 200-300$ for the receiver. Center channel speaker obviously is not in the example I noted, but you have to ascertain whether or not you actually need one at this time. I have gone without center channel fine so far, but I don't watch many movies and when I do, I dont really care about non-centralized voices when I sit off-axis.

 

[dmw16]

Thanks for all the info. I am limited to JBL if I want that discount, but I am not locked in on anything.

I didn't realize that I might need 2 subs. I guess I need to really decide what my budget is and what my needs are. I could probably live without a center channel. I figure 2 speakers and a sub will still far out perform my TV speakers.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

You should really listen to all the options your have available to you easily to get a sense of what kind of differences there are between different brands and the improvements you get moving up priceranges within those brands as well.

Even with the discount, the JBL speakers might not really be a good deal for you if the sound doesn't appeal to you.


Indeed just about anything out there that you buy is going to be superior to TV speakers (probably including those $50 HTIB sets from Walmart even).

If you're going to be putting a few hundred dollars or more into the system though, you should make sure that you know what you're getting and why you're making the decisions you are. There are so many options open to you that you should get a feel for what your own needs are and what appeals to you.

Once you figure out some specifics, we can help you zero down some of the better options to consider.

 

[Tiamat]

dmw16, there are many variables to consider.

1. Price
2. Size of room
3. Expectations vs. Price paid
4. Sound quality that appeals to you
5. Cosmetics of speakers/associated equipment
6. list goes on and on...

Room acoustics is a whole additional can of worms, and multiple subs when placed appropriately can even out bass problems at the listening position. Many people do not what to get to know the problems associated with room acoustics, if you just want to slap together a system and call it a day, thats also important information. Some people just don't care about the details and just want some decent sound, and thats fine.

The only way to know if speakers are right for you is to compare between the JBL that you can get and other speakers. This step is the most important in terms of ensuring money spent well, but takes quite a bit of time and effort on your part. Unfortunately, it is also the only way to answer questions like:

"I like my JBL system that cost 600$, but I wonder if the xxxx system that cost 600 ± 100$ sounds significantly better and would be a huge step in improvements?"

 

[SlickSnake]

Too bad you are limited to JBL, if you work for Harman Kardon you should be able to purchase Infinity speakers.

I have 2 different 5.1 setups in my living room and my bedroom, all using the various models of Infinity Interludes, depending on my space issues. I use only HK receivers since most budget audio makers lie about combined output ratings on speakers, just look at the actual power wattages used listed on the back of most 100 watt 8 ohm receivers. You will see everything from 250 watts on a budget one up to 1800 watts or more AC listed on an HK 7.1 receiver. And believe me, you can hear the difference, even at lower volumes of sound.

Also, most budget receivers made can not output full rated wattage at all channels driven simultaneously. Only in peaks over the various channels at any given time, where as the HK receivers (and other higher end products) can actually sustain multiple sound peaks across multiple channels in high wattage sound playback conditions. HK receivers will also generally work with lower ohm speakers under heavy load conditions many other receivers will burn out under, such as a continuous 4 ohm speaker load, or variations on it with different speakers needing different ohms to work properly.

I can not say enough good things about HK products, and they do make JBL, too. But I prefer the Infinity speaker technologies to JBL, including the designs. And you might get a better deal on a refurb or on ebay with them, also, than you can get at work.

And you get a full new warranty with their refurbs bought from them. I have even gotten brand new speakers sold as refurbs from them, never opened in the box brand new in perfect condition.

Harman Audio Ebay

Harman Audio Home Page

 

[dmw16]

I can get HK as well. Not sure the extent, but I know that I can buy their receivers which seem to get good reviews.

Since I have 2 bookshelf speakers from a project I never finished I may just get a sub and a receiver for now and build from there as time and budget allow.

 

[SlickSnake]

The Infinity subs with at least a 12 inch 500 watt BASH amp will simply amaze you, if you have never heard one. I have one in each room of the Interlude series.