Virginity as a virtue?

[busydude]

How come most of the religions/cultures think that virginity is a virtue?

I am so fucking pissed off. It is so fucking insane that people forcefully test the to-be-bride for virginity. This mostly effects women all over the world.. men come out mostly scot-free.

I don't know the reason, but it is really bothering me thinking about this.

What does ATOT think?

I have to be clear. I am not talking as a matter of personal preference. I am talking about being judged a person.

 

[Leros]

Because men are insecure? That's my gut-feeling take on it anyway.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

I think I don't care. Do I have an opinion on it? Sure, but my opinion on it does not matter to the person next to me or on this board. If a woman doesn't like it, don't be with that dude. Don't marry that culture. Don't be part of that family. In the end its the person's choice here in the US.

 

[MagickMan]

I think it can be, if it's something you personally value about yourself. But if it's used to judge you, or used to evaluate a person's "worthiness", then fuck that.

 

[FoBoT]

 

[vi edit]

Ever buy a new car?

 

[busydude]

I think it can be, if it's something you personally value about yourself. But if it's used to judge you, or used to evaluate a person's "worthiness", then fuck that.

I have to be clear. I am not talking as a matter of personal preference. I am talking about being judged by others.

 

[TallBill]

Why would I want to fuck a virgin? Freaks are waaaaaaaay more fun.

 

[zinfamous]

It's born of long-standing cultural bullshit where the daughter is nothing more than property to be given away--she is essentially useless to her own family as she represents loss of property, standing and title--save for her virginity--which is the only thing that a suitor will demand of her.

dude doesn't want to be raising some potential bastard child and not passing on his genetic legacy. (this is why male lions will kill any cubs when taking over a new pride)

In summary: it's bullshit and such cultural practices should be wiped from this planet with no sympathy whatsoever. The funny thing--women, due to cultural shenanigans like this, are a dying gender (males are now some 10% greater worldwide, with the largest discrepancies in Asia: some 15-20% difference in gender ratio). This is funny to me because it's purely cultural, whereas the biological truth is that the y chromosome is disappearing, and will eventually cease to exist, and not a damn thing can be done about it.

lol

 

[busydude]

Ever buy a new car?

Nop.

Your point?

 

[Leros]

Nop.

Your point?

You want them to test drive the car to make sure it won't break catastrophically, killing you in the process.

Same thing with women.

 

[MagickMan]

I have to be clear. I am not talking as a matter of personal preference. I am talking about being judged by others.

Like I said, "fuck that". Unless it's a personal choice, it doesn't mean a damned thing. It's a tiny membrane of skin that often tears on it's own, big deal.

 

[Nebbers]

How come most of the religions/cultures think that virginity is a virtue?

I am so fucking pissed off. It is so fucking insane that people forcefully test the to-be-bride for virginity. This mostly effects women all over the world.. men come out mostly scot-free.

I don't know the reason, but it is really bothering me thinking about this.

What does ATOT think?

I have to be clear. I am not talking as a matter of personal preference. I am talking about being judged a person.

Your answer is in bold...

 

[bononos]

Ever buy a new car?

Yep, the new car smell, the firm seats and shocks, sparkling paintwork, shiny tires are all very nice.

 

[busydude]

Your answer is in bold...

How come every religion in this world has the same rule pertaining to this matter?

 

[Dr. Zaus]

It's born of long-standing cultural bullshit where the daughter is nothing more than property to be given away--she is essentially useless to her own family as she represents loss of property, standing and title--save for her virginity--which is the only thing that a suitor will demand of her.

dude doesn't want to be raising some potential bastard child and not passing on his genetic legacy. (this is why male lions will kill any cubs when taking over a new pride)

In summary: it's bullshit and such cultural practices should be wiped from this planet with no sympathy whatsoever.

While your appeal to the problematic of the history of male hegemony in our common sexual identity is appreciated (and can be well sourced within the literature); I would like to point out that this feminist-post-modern social-deconstruction point of view has it's limits.

An important limitation is the social meleu in which our common social-sexualization comes about: that is the very basis on which your argument is founded offers the important limitations to your argument. The second most important limitation, which you dismiss as barbaric but I simply call human nature, is the bio-physical properties, costs, and benefits associated with having multiple mates. The third, and arguably most important limitation of your argument comes from the essence of humans in their being; the truth revealed in the meso level between the social-symbolic and the psychological.

Now... I've got about 80 highly-credible empirical-psychological citations to support my point and can deconstruct yours and re-construct it as being entirely in support of mine...

But anyone with a little bit of wit and time can do that to anyone's point; so in the end it comes down to the simple fact that what you think is that which benefits you the most. If you think that not having a single monogamous partner is of more benefit than having a single monogamous partner then virginity is no virtue at all, if you believe otherwise then it is clearly a virtue.

It benefits me to like my wife's former virginity and it benefits you to ignore you and your woman's lack of virginity before being together (I assume). Arguing one side or the other is an exercise in futility, we'll usually only agree with what helps us think the best of those we love.

The problem comes when people like you or I consider the behavior and beliefs of the other to be ignorant or even, simply, base (much less calling for the elimination of beliefs that can be well supported by extant psycho-sexual literature)

How come every religion in this world has the same rule pertaining to this matter?

The rule benefits dicks
You have to be a dick to start a religion
When you start a religion you make rules that benefit yourself

Therefore every religion has made the same dick-benefiting rule. QED.

 

[halik]

If you ever had sex with a virgin, you know the answer.

 

[Paladin3]

How come every religion in this world has the same rule pertaining to this matter?

You know the answer as well as I do. Religion is used to control people. We also know children are better provided for, receive better parenting and grow up to be productive members of society *MORE OFTEN* in a two parent household than they do in a single parent household.

So what better way to ensure lots of children are born, but only into two parent families? Make virginity and abstinence until marriage a mandate from God. Naturally, virginity is stressed more to women because they are the ones who get pregnant.

That said, do you personally know anyone who actually looks down on a woman who isn't a virgin unless she has been reproducing irresponsibly? Nobody worries about a woman's virginity until she starts turning out little shits she can't afford or who are a blight on humanity. At that point we all wish she had read her Bible more and kept it in her pants.

P.S. just because an idea is found in religion doesn't make it automatically wrong. Murder, stealing and coveting thy neighbors wife are all bad ideas too.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

just because an idea is found in religion doesn't make it automatically wrong. Murder, stealing and coveting thy neighbors wife are all bad ideas too.

always?

 

[busydude]

That said, do you personally know anyone who actually looks down on a woman who isn't a virgin unless she has been reproducing irresponsibly? Nobody worries about a woman's virginity until she starts turning out little shits she can't afford or who are a blight on humanity. At that point we all wish she had read her Bible more and kept it in her pants.

Yes. I know a lot of folks who think that way..and these are no village idiots. They grew up in the cities..mostly middle class families.

 

[Paladin3]

always?

Always what? Is that a serious question, or are you trying to make me out to be some irrational absolutist?

I'm sure you can dream up anecdotal cases where each of these actions are justified, but in general they are all bad ideas. You can't toss a good philosophy out the window just because there are occasional exceptions.

 

[Paladin3]

Yes. I know a lot of folks who think that way..and these are no village idiots. They grew up in the cities..mostly middle class families.

Obviously there aren't enough of these pro-virginity folks around to make much of a dent in the common practice of doing the exact opposite. I think the average non-virgin is safe from being driven out of town for lack of virtue.

 

[zinfamous]

While your appeal to the problematic of the history of male hegemony in our common sexual identity is appreciated (and can be well sourced within the literature); I would like to point out that this feminist-post-modern social-deconstruction point of view has it's limits.

An important limitation is the social meleu in which our common social-sexualization comes about: that is the very basis on which your argument is founded offers the important limitations to your argument. The second most important limitation, which you dismiss as barbaric but I simply call human nature, is the bio-physical properties, costs, and benefits associated with having multiple mates. The third, and arguably most important limitation of your argument comes from the essence of humans in their being; the truth revealed in the meso level between the social-symbolic and the psychological.

Now... I've got about 80 highly-credible empirical-psychological citations to support my point and can deconstruct yours and re-construct it as being entirely in support of mine...

But anyone with a little bit of wit and time can do that to anyone's point; so in the end it comes down to the simple fact that what you think is that which benefits you the most. If you think that not having a single monogamous partner is of more benefit than having a single monogamous partner then virginity is no virtue at all, if you believe otherwise then it is clearly a virtue.

It benefits me to like my wife's former virginity and it benefits you to ignore you and your woman's lack of virginity before being together (I assume). Arguing one side or the other is an exercise in futility, we'll usually only agree with what helps us think the best of those we love.

The problem comes when people like you or I consider the behavior and beliefs of the other to be ignorant or even, simply, base (much less calling for the elimination of beliefs that can be well supported by extant psycho-sexual literature)


The rule benefits dicks
You have to be a dick to start a religion
When you start a religion you make rules that benefit yourself

Therefore every religion has made the same dick-benefiting rule. QED.

lol

:beer:

 

[nanette1985]

While your appeal to the problematic of the history of male hegemony in our common sexual identity is appreciated (and can be well sourced within the literature); I would like to point out that this feminist-post-modern social-deconstruction point of view has it's limits.

An important limitation is the social meleu in which our common social-sexualization comes about: that is the very basis on which your argument is founded offers the important limitations to your argument. The second most important limitation, which you dismiss as barbaric but I simply call human nature, is the bio-physical properties, costs, and benefits associated with having multiple mates. The third, and arguably most important limitation of your argument comes from the essence of humans in their being; the truth revealed in the meso level between the social-symbolic and the psychological.

Now... I've got about 80 highly-credible empirical-psychological citations to support my point and can deconstruct yours and re-construct it as being entirely in support of mine...

But anyone with a little bit of wit and time can do that to anyone's point; so in the end it comes down to the simple fact that what you think is that which benefits you the most. If you think that not having a single monogamous partner is of more benefit than having a single monogamous partner then virginity is no virtue at all, if you believe otherwise then it is clearly a virtue.

It benefits me to like my wife's former virginity and it benefits you to ignore you and your woman's lack of virginity before being together (I assume). Arguing one side or the other is an exercise in futility, we'll usually only agree with what helps us think the best of those we love.

The problem comes when people like you or I consider the behavior and beliefs of the other to be ignorant or even, simply, base (much less calling for the elimination of beliefs that can be well supported by extant psycho-sexual literature)


The rule benefits dicks
You have to be a dick to start a religion
When you start a religion you make rules that benefit yourself

Therefore every religion has made the same dick-benefiting rule. QED.

Not sure what Maple Story currency has to do with virginity (bold) - but interesting reply, good use of jargon :thumbsup: . Brings back good memories. When I was in grad school I could pontificate obscure facts with the best of them.

And since there should be at least one opinion from a female on this subject, I'll say that virginity isn't exactly considered to be a virtue. It's more of a fantasy. Females have been non-virgins for a long, long time, and males have been mating with them perfectly well.

 

[shortylickens]

Ancient peoples ignorance about sexuality has been the cause of many problems for civilization and is a HUGE influence on just about every facet of life for human beings.