Virginia Lawmaker Objects to Muslims Immigrating into U.S.A.

[Termagant]

Spokesman Linwood Duncan said Goode's letter was written in response to complaints his office received about Minnesota Rep.-elect Keith Ellison's request to be sworn in using the Quran.

Republican Rep. Virgil Goode's letter to constituents also warns that without immigration reform "we will have many more Muslims in the United States."

"if American citizens don't wake up and adopt the Virgil Goode position...."

The Virgil Goode Position:

The Ten Commandments and 'In God We Trust' are on the wall in my office.

I fear that in the next century we will have many more Muslims in the United States if we do not adopt the strict immigration policies that I believe are necessary to preserve the values and beliefs traditional to the United States of America

So Goode's constituents complain to him about a Muslim legislator, and he issues the letter.

Is Goode's position or attitudes goode for America? Should America be kept reserved for Christians, preferably Caucasian? Are these the major values which have brought America to where it is today? BTW many nations have immigration quotas to preserve their society and ethnicity. America has had quotas like that in the past and even today.

Should Ellison be allowed to swear in using the Qu'ur'ran, or even serve as a representatives, since his values are so out of line with Mainstream Silent Majority America's?

 

[Rainsford]

I think the argument about who brought America to where the country is today is pretty irrelevant to the discussion. I don't agree with the unsupportable (and frankly un-American) belief that white Christians can be credited with bringing America to the position it now enjoys. Granted, many of the people that deserve credit happen to BE white Christians (or close enough), but their race and religion had little to do with it. In fact, a lot of the great moments in history, in this country and elsewhere, seem to be composed of people who are "different" going against the mainstream, majority beliefs and attitudes. Far from an influx of Muslims ruining America, the broad strokes of history would suggest that an influx of new ideas and values will strengthen America even farther.

But as I said, that's really an irrelevant side discussion to whether or not we should ban Rep-elect Ellison from being sworn in on his holy book, or whether or not we need to keep Muslims out of this country to preserve our "Christian heritage". This country does not exist for the betterment of the majority, or to become a world-spanning empire. America exists to ensure INDIVIDUAL liberty and freedom. While I think Virgil Goode sounds more like (R-Iran) than (R-VA) with his apparent ignorance of the very first Amendment to the constitution (hell, who can't even read THAT far through the document?) and his dislike of people who don't share his religious beliefs, it wouldn't matter if he was right...our country exists more to give Muslims a right to freely practice their faith (note to the short-bus crowd, this does NOT mean freedom to do anything violent) than it does to give Christians a place they can turn into Christian-land and actively fight anyone who won't go along with the program. Whatever our "traditional values and beliefs" happen to be, I see little authority for the US government to activly work to force their values and beliefs on the country as a whole. If they stick around on their own, super...if not, well that's just too bad for the honorable bigot from Virginia. Somehow I don't think the founding fathers would find his particular attitude very amusing, OR American.

 

[Termagant]

Somehow I don't think the founding fathers would find his particular attitude very amusing, OR American.

So, if say, a Barbary Coast Pirate was elected to the early American Congress, the "Founding Fathers" would be perfectly fine with him swearing in using a Barbary Coast Religious Text?

 

[Paddington]

I'm an immigrant myself. I think America has to be careful about who it lets in. And the prospect of large numbers of Muslims being admitted to the U.S. is something that needs to be discussed publically, especially in light of problems that massive Muslim immigration has created in Europe.

This country does not exist for the betterment of the majority

Actually it should exist for the betterment of people who are already citizens. The immigration policies largely revolve around letting in people who can benefit the U.S. economy. If you're a scientist, your green card approval is put on the fast track, whereas if you want to come here because your brother has sponsored you to come and work in his ethnic grocery store it might take 10 years.

Again, whether or not letting in large numbers of Muslims is a good idea is something that needs to be debated, instead of smearing people as racists.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Termagant

Somehow I don't think the founding fathers would find his particular attitude very amusing, OR American.

So, if say, a Barbary Coast Pirate was elected to the early American Congress, the "Founding Fathers" would be perfectly fine with him swearing in using a Barbary Coast Religious Text?

Practicing Islam is not the same as being a member of a group dedicated to breaking the law. In fact, that's the basic assumption made by a lot of anti-Muslim folks and the point I'm trying to argue against here. I'm perfectly alright with blocking immigration of people with ties to terrorist groups, and I would object if a congressman wanted to take the oath of office by swearing loyalty to Osama bin Laden. But being Muslim and wanted to swear on the Koran does not make you part of some violent group, and absent a clear and obvious threat from THEIR PERSONAL BELIEFS, I see no reason to treat them any differently.

 

[cumhail]

Originally posted by: Termagant

Somehow I don't think the founding fathers would find his particular attitude very amusing, OR American.

So, if say, a Barbary Coast Pirate was elected to the early American Congress, the "Founding Fathers" would be perfectly fine with him swearing in using a Barbary Coast Religious Text?

You are aware that your entire premise is incorrect, right? Congressmen don't have their hands on Bibles, Qurans, the Enuma Elis, nor any other religious texts when they're officially sworn in, and it has no part on their official oaths. It's only in the photo-ops, afterwards, that this "swearing on a bible (or whatever)" occurs.

Now since you don't cite your information at all, I don't know what right-wing blog you quoted in the OP... though obviously it's one that is in line with Dennis Prager's recent prattle on the subject. As presented, the information is misleading and simply incorrect. But putting aside actual facts about how the swearing in works, ignoring the fact that I've never read anything to indicate that Barbary Coast Piracy was a religious denomination, and pretending I don't know that Presidents and members of Congress have, indeed, held other religious texts (or even none at all) in being sworn in... I'll go ahead and answer your nonsensical question by saying, "sure... if adherents to the Church of Latter Day Pirates of the Barbary Coast, upon being elected to the US House of Representatives, want to be photographed ceremoniously being sworn in with a copy of their "Barbary Coast Religious Text" in one hand and "My Pet Goat" in the other, more power to them.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Paddington
I'm an immigrant myself. I think America has to be careful about who it lets in. And the prospect of large numbers of Muslims being admitted to the U.S. is something that needs to be discussed publically, especially in light of problems that massive Muslim immigration has created in Europe.

This country does not exist for the betterment of the majority

Actually it should exist for the betterment of people who are already citizens. The immigration policies largely revolve around letting in people who can benefit the U.S. economy. If you're a scientist, your green card approval is put on the fast track, whereas if you want to come here because your brother has sponsored you to come and work in his ethnic grocery store it might take 10 years.

Again, whether or not letting in large numbers of Muslims is a good idea is something that needs to be debated, instead of smearing people as racists.

As far as I know, the honorably congressman from Minnesota is an American citizen and has broken no law. Yet that doesn't seem to stop the anti-Islam brigade from asking him to prove he's not a terrorist and trying to prevent him from exercising his first amendment rights just because they don't happen to like other people who claim to be Muslims. Yeah, I call those people bigots, and you know why? Cause they are. Rep-elect Ellison is, as far as I know, a decent American who just wants to do his duty. There is no evidence that he's some sort of subversive agent or means to cause harm to the United States...but everyone is jumping all over him just because of his religion, regardless of any other data. If that's not bigotry, I'm not sure what is.

But you do have a point about immigration, we obviously should have rules about who gets in. I'm just not sure rules that make broad generalizations about a person based on religion or race or whatever are the best way to go about it. I have no problem preferring doctors to grocers, but a system that places Muslim doctors after Christian grocers seems backwards to me.

As far as this "we need to debate it" line, I'm fine with having a reasonable debate...I just don't like being the only person doing so. So far nobody has offered a concrete reason why going after Muslims in particular makes a lot of sense other than "they are all terrorists", so you'll forgive me if I don't have a lot of respect for their position. I'm not "smearing" anybody, but it seems like a weird kind of political correctness when I have to treat your ideas like some sort of brilliant revelations just because you've managed to work a keyboard. If anybody on your side can raise the debate above the "Ann Coulter level", I'm perfectly willing to join in...but so far all I see is people way more interested in slapping down the Muslims than helping America.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Sadly, many Americans have no clue that the WORST aspect of American democracy is the presence of people like Virge and the BEST are people like Keith Ellison.

As for other comments about immigration and 'problems', nothing has been as terrible as the widespread immigration of Europeans to the New World. So why don't we solve the problem by having everybody go back to wherever 'most' of their people came from?:roll:

It's a ridiculous debate where the person 'framing' it invariably considers some amorphous reference point as being the start (or end) of immigration for one group or another. It's nothing new the prejudiced at P&N, in Congress, and the general public have quite a lot of company from David Duke/Pat Buchanan all the way back to days when 'nonwhite' immigration was governed as commerce.

 

[0]

What do Native Americans think about immigration, circa the 15th century?

 

[Aimster]

The majority of Muslims in the U.S are morre educated and wealthier than the average population.

In fact the reason many come to this country is to get an education.

So what immigration policites does this idiot sugges the U.S make since the majority of Muslims will easily pass any test we throw at them?
& since the majority of Muslims in the world come from democratic nations that are allies with the U.S.

 

[tvarad]

Aimster:

"The majority of Muslims in the U.S are morre educated and wealthier than the average population.
In fact the reason many come to this country is to get an education."

They do also sometimes come here to use that education obtained in flight schools to fly planes into buildings.

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: tvarad
Aimster:

"The majority of Muslims in the U.S are morre educated and wealthier than the average population.
In fact the reason many come to this country is to get an education."

They do also sometimes come here to use that education obtained in flight schools to fly planes into buildings.

what did I tell you about generalizing?

maybe we should stop people from owning guns because "they do use them to commit murders as well"

seriously, common sense. apply it for once.

 

[tvarad]

Aimster:
Stop making 9/11 seem like it was a drive-by shooting.

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: tvarad
Aimster:
Stop making 9/11 seem like it was a drive-by shooting.

you look foolish when you generalize. You do know that right? 7 million U.S Muslims. Make 1% of them look horrible. 1% is a small number, so go on.

You look just as foolish as the idiot guy this thread is about talking about immigration policies and such from the M.E.

A) the congressman is homegrown yet he talks about immigration "rolls eyes"
B) the majority of Muslims are not from the M.E.

so you can side with Mr.foolish if you want.

 

[tvarad]

Aimster,
You can stick your head as much as you want in the sand, but the whole civilized world has serious doubts about muslims becoming part of liberal, multi-ethnic, multi-religious and multi-cultural societies that most countries that have bought into the modern view of the world have become.

And you can rant and rave as much as you want but it is the muslim community that needs to do the soul-searching, not the civilized world for the state of affairs vis-a-vis muslims.

 

[Aimster]

The Muslims are part of the civilized world.

You are the one who has a problem with it.

The leader of the very country you live in has no problems with Muslims. Nobody has a problem with Muslims.
If they did the world would be a horrible place to live in.

7 million U.S Muslims. Like I said prove them to be a danger to the U.S. Otherwise continue to ramble on and on

 

[tvarad]

Aimster:

"The Muslims are part of the civilized world."

You could have fooled me.

 

[Aimster]

Your level of education is really showing in this thread.

You need to step outside your box. Live your life or continue to spread your hate. You wont change the world. So have fun.

 

[Corbett]

Originally posted by: Aimster
Your level of education is really showing in this thread.

You need to step outside your box. Live your life or continue to spread your hate. You wont change the world. So have fun.

So lets see YOUR level of education on the subject. Are you educated on the subject, or just reading things on the internet?

 

[tvarad]

Aimster:

Your replies have as much nutrition as a big Mac. You can insult me as much as you want. The spotlight of the world is now shining on muslims to ensure that they don't undermine the very societies that they are part of. If you don't like it, tough.

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: Aimster
Your level of education is really showing in this thread.

You need to step outside your box. Live your life or continue to spread your hate. You wont change the world. So have fun.

So lets see YOUR level of education on the subject. Are you educated on the subject, or just reading things on the internet?

Hey look another post with no facts just rambling.

None of you bring facts to the table (the 2 of u)

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: tvarad
Aimster:

Your replies have as much nutrition as a big Mac. You can insult me as much as you want. The spotlight of the world is now shining on muslims to ensure that they don't undermine the very societies that they are part of. If you don't like it, tough.

Muslims are part of the U.S.

I said prove to me 1% of them 70,000 of them are bad

Go ahead or shutup?

You bring no facts to the table. Just rambling. Im seriously done wasting my time with someone who posts nothing but garbage.

 

[tvarad]

Aimster:

"Muslims are part of the U.S."

Like a wart is part of the body. Which is why they're being read the riot act in most of the civilized world to shape up or ship out (of which I've given you example after example).

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: tvarad
Aimster:

Your replies have as much nutrition as a big Mac. You can insult me as much as you want. The spotlight of the world is now shining on muslims to ensure that they don't undermine the very societies that they are part of. If you don't like it, tough.

Muslims are part of the U.S.

I said prove to me 1% of them 70,000 of them are bad

Go ahead or shutup?

You bring no facts to the table. Just rambling. Im seriously done wasting my time with someone who posts nothing but garbage.

 

[cumhail]

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: tvarad
Aimster:
Stop making 9/11 seem like it was a drive-by shooting.

you look foolish when you generalize. You do know that right? 7 million U.S Muslims. Make 1% of them look horrible. 1% is a small number, so go on.

You look just as foolish as the idiot guy this thread is about talking about immigration policies and such from the M.E.

A) the congressman is homegrown yet he talks about immigration "rolls eyes"
B) the majority of Muslims are not from the M.E.

so you can side with Mr.foolish if you want.

Actually, even 1% of 7 million would mean 70,000 people flying planes into buildings. In reality, we have only 0.0027% of US Muslims (19, in all) presumed guilty of the crime that tvarad is attributing to all of them... or 0.0029% if you want to lump in the "20th hijacker" theory.