Violent Crimes: What's wrong with the USA?

[Pudgygiant]

In all of 2001 there were 15,980 deaths due to violent crimes (link). There were 2000 less deaths during the "major phase" (march 19th-may 1st) of the war in iraq! (link, scroll down to the "Iraqi Losses" section)

That's a rate of 309.5... deaths per day for the war in iraq, and a rate of 43.8 deaths per day in the US in all of 2001. Could we declare the US a war zone? To really put this in perspective look at the number of US lives lost in the 42 days of the "major phase" of the war: 114. 2.71 deaths per day. There were 20 times more deaths per day of americans in 2001 in the US, a "safe country", than there were in the middle of a war zone!

I don't mean to sound like Michael Moore bringing this up, but what's the problem with the US?

 

[jfall]

oh no, john tritor was right.. nooooooo

 

[Spoooon]

I don't think the question is "what's wrong with the USA?" Rather, it should be "what's wrong with violent crime?"

 

[Pudgygiant]

john tritor?

 

[BurnItDwn]

Well the US population is about 290,000,000. Every year about 0.0055% of the population dies due to a violent crime. Less than 1 out of every 18000 people.
Thats about 1 person dying from crime each day per every million people in the population.

It's terrible that people commit atrocities against one another for stupid things like greed, however, statistics can be made to make a problem look more, or less severe.

 

[GasX]

Originally posted by: Pudgygiant

I don't mean to sound like Michael Moore bringing this up, but what's the problem with the US?

Michael Moore is a self-righteous F-tard. What does that make you? Not quite the same thing unless you are going to go on a moral crusade based on your non-understanding of population statistics.

 

[dolph]

no, he's got a point. unless the statistics i've read were skewed, we have a substantially higher rate of violent crimes than most (if not all) western countries. sorry if i don't provide links, i'm just taking a studying break and i don't really have time. but i'll freely admit that i'm wrong if someone posts anything that proves otherwise.

 

[silverpig]

Originally posted by: dolph
no, he's got a point. unless the statistics i've read were skewed, we have a substantially higher rate of violent crimes than most (if not all) western countries. sorry if i don't provide links, i'm just taking a studying break and i don't really have time. but i'll freely admit that i'm wrong if someone posts anything that proves otherwise.

 

[Vic]

Crime always goes up when the economy goes down.

 

[Pudgygiant]

I would understand if this was higher than other countries as I can probably BS a higher violent-crime rate off to the fact that we have less menial labor work for people to do, so more time for people to think. But it's abnormally high. Could it be the fact that people see rich people all the time, so they want it enough to commit a crime for it?

*EDIT
And Vic, the statistic was from 2001, when the economy was still rather high. Not exactly the peak of clinton, but not plummeting yet either.

 

[Spoooon]

Originally posted by: Pudgygiant
I would understand if this was higher than other countries as I can probably BS a higher violent-crime rate off to the fact that we have less menial labor work for people to do, so more time for people to think. But it's abnormally high. Could it be the fact that people see rich people all the time, so they want it enough to commit a crime for it?

You need to look at the types of crimes that are being committed. Unemployment could be a contributing factor, but it interacts with other things such as lack of education, drug use, and so on.

edit: When I said types, I meant the people perpertrating the crime and who the victims are.

 

[Imported]

How many troops were fighting in Iraq? How many people are there in the USA?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Pudgygiant
*EDIT
And Vic, the statistic was from 2001, when the economy was still rather high. Not exactly the peak of clinton, but not plummeting yet either.

Officially, the economic downturn began in March of 2000 with 4Q 00, 1Q 01, and 2Q 01 marking the actual recession. From March of '00 until October of '01, the NASDAQ fell over 3,500 points or 70% off its peak value. Text


edit:typo

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Imported
How many troops were fighting in Iraq? How many people are there in the USA?

Heh.

"Lies, damned lies... and statistics"

 

[Pudgygiant]

Oh. Then, I guess it was from the recession. But still, it says it's an increase of 2.5% from 2000, which comes out to... around 15500? That's still waaay above the per day death rate of the 42 days of the war.

*EDIT
"it" meaning the link from my first post

 

[Ryan]

Am I the only one who fails to see this as a problem. With the huge amount of people we have in the US, the percentage isn't really that huge. More people die from the flu than are killed.

 

[dolph]

Originally posted by: rbloedow
Am I the only one who fails to see this as a problem. With the huge amount of people we have in the US, the percentage isn't really that huge. More people die from the flu than are killed.

if it were just a matter of raw numbers, then it wouldn't be as big a deal. but what the op, i, and others are contending is that it's disproportionate to our population, as compared to other countries.

 

[Ryan]

Originally posted by: dolph

Originally posted by: rbloedow
Am I the only one who fails to see this as a problem. With the huge amount of people we have in the US, the percentage isn't really that huge. More people die from the flu than are killed.

if it were just a matter of raw numbers, then it wouldn't be as big a deal. but what the op, i, and others are contending is that it's disproportionate to our population, as compared to other countries.

I agree, but I still don't see it as a problem.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: rbloedow
Am I the only one who fails to see this as a problem. With the huge amount of people we have in the US, the percentage isn't really that huge. More people die from the flu than are killed.

You're not the only one. And not just more people die from the flu, twice as many die from the flu every year. Three times as many die in automobile accidents. Seven times as many die from complications of legal prescription drug use. 27 times as many die from heart disease. In the US. Every year.

 

[Pudgygiant]

Influenza deaths in 1995 (the only statistics I could find quickly) were around 8500, or 23.3 deaths per day. The population then was around 266,000,000, as opposed to an estimated 284,000,000 in 2001. I really don't think there was an increase of 88% influenza deaths from the whopping 6% population increase.

EDIT*
Wow, big mistake on my part. Influenza deaths were around 85,000 not 8500, in 1995. link

So according to the CDC an average of 233 people died per day from influenza in 1995 (probably more). So I take back the fact that violent crimes are killing a significant part of the population. It's just that (like people have said) the numbers are way skewed as compared to other countries. Lemme find hard statistics.

EDIT*
Here's some USA statistics, it says nothing about deaths though. Notice how violent crimes were actually HIGHER during the good market and LOWER during 2000, the beginning of the recession. link

 

[Pudgygiant]

Vic, you got a link to those statistics?

 

[styrafoam]

Originally posted by: dolph

Originally posted by: rbloedow
Am I the only one who fails to see this as a problem. With the huge amount of people we have in the US, the percentage isn't really that huge. More people die from the flu than are killed.

if it were just a matter of raw numbers, then it wouldn't be as big a deal. but what the op, i, and others are contending is that it's disproportionate to our population, as compared to other countries.

Which other countries? Denmark? South Africa? Cambodia? Mexico? Would any of those be fair compairsions? I can't really see how any comparison can be truly proportionate in reguards to anything except for the raw statistical data.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Pudgygiant
Vic, you got a link to those statistics?

Your other link included pneumonia stats. As more people die from pneumonia than the flu, you're a bit off.
I'll have to dig them up, but it's pretty consistent in the US for the last 20 or so years that 10,000 people die from illicit drug abuse/overdose; 15,000 people get murdered; 30,000 die from the flu; 45,000 in car accidents; 110,000 from legal prescription drug interactions; and 400,000 from heart disease. Bear in mind the average age from the flu, prescription drug, and heart disease stats are quite elderly.
Or you can feel free to google them, I'm very confident in them.

Crime where I live (Portland, OR) is actually down. We used to run about 50-60 murders per year in the early '90s, and the last 5 years we haven't broken 30. This year, we just had our 24th last week. (edit: this is in a city of 550,000)

Don't get me wrong, I think every murder is a terrible thing. As a person of faith, my heart is torn between the victim whose life was stolen and the murderer who has lost his eternal soul. But these things happen... it is a fact of life.
As for the other countries, I think they hide their true numbers. I visited Vancouver, BC a few months ago and, living up to its long-held gritty reputation, I personally witnessed a brutal assault and robbery (at the corner of Granville and Davie) and there was a triple homicide a few blocks from my hotel -- all on the first night of my stay.

 

[JimmyEatWorld]

Crime has been in decline for twenty years. I can dig up the stats tomorrow if you people are still arguing. Interestingly the number of prisons has skyrocketed. How much does that cost? Thats a stat I'd like to know.

 

[NeoV]

we can keep on burying our head in the sand, but the fact is that violent crimes in the USA happen with an appaling frequency - yes, we have 270ish million people in the US, and we are only talking about approx 16,000 deaths from violent crimes, and yes, the flu kills more people every year, blah blah blah...

Am I the only one that has a problem saying "only 16,000"? How many more people are only injured in violent crimes? I would think that number would be closer to 100,000, but that is pure speculation on my part. There are cities in the US that have more murders committed, per year, than any country in Europe. We have Snipers shooting out of cars, and now we have copycat snipers. Copycat Snipers? How crazy is that? We have just about one family per day being killed by one of the parents. We have cable channels that broadcast hours and hours per day of shows about serial killers, and homicide investigations, and Bill Curtis-narrated sensationalism of now infamous killers. We have shows that use nothing but footage from in-store security cameras, and they show real-life acts of mindless criminals and killers - and we eat it up. Now we even have video games like Manhunter and Grand Theft Auto - do you really want your kids playing these games? I love good FPS games, gore and all, (ok, not the game Gore, but gore in various FPS games - I don't want to lose all credibility!)

We can blame a bad parent here and there. We can blame a kid who was abused as he cycled his way through the foster-child program for smashing a 4 year old's brains out with bricks, and leaving his body in the path of an oncoming train - and we someone feel secure in saying "he was just a bad seed, it won't happen here". We have millions of kids taking ritalin and various other behavoir-modifying drugs. Estimates of the percentage of girls raped or knowing someone who was raped on campus? How does 60% sound.

Where do we draw the line? At what point do we make a stand? How many people have to slip through the cracks of the US judicial system only to commit more horrible crimes? Nearly 75% of incarcerated criminals in the US are not first time offenders. Think about that. 75 of the people we lock up are not being caught for the first time. We've caught them for something else and set them back out on the streets. I'm not saying we lock everyone up for good who commits a crime, but clearly our current system isn't working. Does anyone think the death penalty is really a deterrent of any kind? Shouldn't it be? Shouldn't our system be more of a deterrent to criminals?

Sure, the flu kills more people than violent crimes do (though to be fair, most of those deaths occur among the elderly). Drunk driving is another huge problem, and I don't even get me started on that, I'll make this rant look like a sentence. And yes, calling the US a warzone seems a bit extreme, but my god, if you really don't think there is a serious, serious problem with violence in the US then you are living in fantasy land - read the papers, watch the news, talk to people about what is going on in various parts of the country. Maybe because I now have 3 children I'm more sensitive about protecting them - I'll freely admit that I'm scared to death at times for them, the things I read about now occurring in schools - no one even thought of these things when I was in HS 16 years ago. Clearly violence is on the rise, and until we admit that and decide to do something about it, who knows where the end is.