Vintage receiver, vintage speakers, or both?

[slackerinabox]

This is going to make me seem like a hipster but I really like the warm sound of pre-80s audio gear. I'm not an audiophile at all (and actually find the audiophile preferred sound signature too bright and piercingly harsh) and just love the sound of old vinyl - warm, lush, with bass that's moving but not ghetto blasting.

I also have a very mid century modern living room and thing an old school stereo system would work really well decor wise. A record players a given but, for that warm signature - vintage stereo receiver, vintage speakers, or both?

If just a receiver, what modern speakers match up well (both design and SQ) with an old school receiver? One issue is that bookshelf speakers are much better suited for the amount of space that I have, but seem to be rare pre-1980s.

This is not the receiver I'm going with but they all look similar: http://cdn.head-fi.org/c/ca/350x160px-LL-ca30ed4b_sa1000catalog.jpeg


Feel free to share brand recommendations, I figured I'd go with an ebay technics or sansui because the price is right.

 

[Kadarin]

I take it this is strictly for audio, and not connected to any home theater?

 

[slackerinabox]

I take it this is strictly for audio, and not connected to any home theater?

Exactly - I have an onkyo 5.1 for video, but music is just so digitally and clean. Primary source will be vinyl and also airplay via an airport express router.

 

[sdifox]

so just get some tube amps

 

[alkemyst]

Klipsch lineups do well with tube gear, they remade the Klipschorn, Hersey and Cornwall recently.

 

[darkswordsman17]

I'd say modern speakers with a decent vintage receiver.

You might check Craigslist and local pawn shops, although I'd guess anything good has already been snatched up. Prices on vintage receivers have made them a lot less appealing in my opinion.

If you want a nice project, you might look into trying to do a retro look for some modern kit. A lot of that older stuff, the wood was just extra crap slapped on the outside, so you could get some, and make your own, and could stain/finish it to get the look you want.

No idea what speakers to recommend for ya.

 

[iRONic]

I'm running my 30 year old Technics SL-7 turntable into a 5 year old Onkyo TX-SR805 AVR and out through 30 year old Klipsh La Scala speakers. There are several reasons I do this;

-My system is multi-purpose. (HT -- Music)
-My room is limited. (Basement)
-The AVR's built in phono stage.
-The AVR's myriad audio modes. (2 channel stereo for vinyl)
-The AVR's Audyssey.

The sound is warm, clear, and wide due to efficient speakers and an Audyssey/SPL meter set up. You won't find those features on an older ie. vintage receiver.

You'll need to decide on a budget first. Some vintage gear needs repair/mod before it will sound good.

A couple of disclaimers;

-I'm the original owner but the TT has been completely overhauled & modified. The cart has ~30 hours on it.
-I'm not the original La Scala owner but I installed Crites CT125 tweeters & A/4500 crossovers.

 

[Oyeve]

I have an old Realistic Tube receiver from the early 70s. 25w per channel/quad, and it sounds fantastic even to this day. I gave it to my GFs friend and want it back but she said NEVER!

I miss it.

 

[Gintaras]

Exactly - I have an onkyo 5.1 for video, but music is just so digitally and clean. Primary source will be vinyl and also airplay via an airport express router.

I do collect LPs - ~ 1000 in my collection.
For listening to TT or DAC:

Cambridge Audio Azur 550A amp to Polk Audio speakers.
TT: Philips 877.

Same speakers, with Polk Audio center and 2 rear surround. No Sub, Floor standing Polk Audio Monitor 50 are used as front speakers(extra bass) connected to Yamaha RX-V467 AR...

Since I do have same pair of speakers connected to 2 different amps, my co-worker made me a switch - to listen TT or to use Yamaha AR connected to TV with same pair of speakers.

I'm not an audiophile at all (and actually find the audiophile preferred sound signature too bright and piercingly harsh) and just love the sound of old vinyl - warm, lush, with bass that's moving but not ghetto blasting.

I don't consider myself as an audiophile, but...
Don't think, there's any preferred sound, each person my like record to sound different...

I think, that most audiophile stereo components buy people who do listen jazz or classical music...

I got into audiophile world when I got HiFiMan 601, then HifiMan 801 and Astell & Kern AK100 players and HifiMan RE-262 earphones - sound is incredible...
These pieces got me into some jazz stuff - vocal, pop jazz...
Stevie Wonder - Songs In The Key Of Life does sound incredible - I'm looking for same on LP. I got some Test CDs(in Flac format): Marantz, Foca, Audiophile Jazz Female Vocals...etc...

But listening to Rock Music - HR/HM/Prog can be at times disappointing because of production of these records...

 

[Lewy]

While some equipment is built like a tank most is certainly not, capacitors dry out and speaker surrounds can develop foam rot etc.. If you are actually technically capable of knowing what your buying used and fixing it you can find some great bargains. Do your research though as the cost of many new things in audio has gone down while the quality has often gone up and fixing things can be prohibitively expensive without a warranty.
I don't tend to like receivers but some of the new one's such as Pioneers newest elite series with their D3-class amps are amazing and sound very high end, run cool and should last a long time because heat is a big killer. I do like the old big Klipsch speakers because they are easy to drive, get parts and upgrades for and sound great to most people too. I also like small cheap tri-path amps and some Chinese hi-end selling new on Ebay for very reasonable amounts. Such as a Bewitch tube amp etc.

Always look for reviews and discussions before buying and consider your budget. It also helps to listen to the advice of others and always make sure it works well and sounds good before you buy anything if you can. Great audio is not dead but it has changed and mainly for the better.

 

[Excelsior]

I concur with someone else who said get the older receiver rather than older speakers. It is an undeniable fact that speaker technology has improved over time far more than amplifier tech, at least in the last two decades. I'd still vote for the newest of both though. You can make any setup sound warm if you want, but when you desire the most realistic reproduction of a sound, you can only get that with decent to good equipment.

 

[Howard]

Old solid state stuff sucked. Nostalgia not found.

Most old gear isn't that great.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

I'm running my 30 year old Technics SL-7 turntable into a 5 year old Onkyo TX-SR805 AVR and out through 30 year old Klipsh La Scala speakers. There are several reasons I do this;

-My system is multi-purpose. (HT -- Music)
-My room is limited. (Basement)
-The AVR's built in phono stage.
-The AVR's myriad audio modes. (2 channel stereo for vinyl)
-The AVR's Audyssey.

The sound is warm, clear, and wide due to efficient speakers and an Audyssey/SPL meter set up. You won't find those features on an older ie. vintage receiver.

You'll need to decide on a budget first. Some vintage gear needs repair/mod before it will sound good.

A couple of disclaimers;

-I'm the original owner but the TT has been completely overhauled & modified. The cart has ~30 hours on it.
-I'm not the original La Scala owner but I installed Crites CT125 tweeters & A/4500 crossovers.

Hey, I recognize that subwoofer. :biggrin:

Still going strong for you Ron?

 

[Meghan54]

Well, I don't claim much expertise in the audio arena, but I've dabbled in it for over 40 years. Got training in audio from the military (one of 3 MOS's/"jobs" I trained in while serving--audio specialist, traffic analysist in the ASA, and an LPN). Got to "play" with some quite electronic stuff from McIntosh, Crown, etc.

But this discussion of vintage speakers takes me back to the various bits I've owned over the years.....Klipsch Klipschorns, quite a few '70's Marantz amps and receivers (am partial to them--still own a 2230 receiver that's out in my shed), B&O (decent sound, great style), a set of the original large Advents---wish I still had them--and a ton of other speakers over the decades (ESS AMT1's, Ohm Walsh, AR, etc., etc.), and every one had their weaknesses and strengths.

I ran on the audiophile treadmill for a couple of decades until I realized the money was leaving faster than I wanted and also discovered my love for boats. So gave up the search for audio perfection, which doesn't exist anyway, and went "consumer" grade sound....and really haven't regretted it since. Mostly. Cannot brag about consumer level audio, but who really cares anyway? Besides, being an audiophile these days can lead to crap like Cream Electret from P.W.B. (meant to be smeared on cables, the outside of your electronics----really?) or their Rainbow Electret Foil, strips of crap meant to be applied over the CD logo on the label side of CD's or the 33 1/3 logo on an album----again, really? Snake oil abounds these days.

That said, I don't own any vintage audio any longer, outside the aforementioned Marantz receiver. Why? The new stuff, esp. the speakers, are just made better than what was technically and humanly possible decades before. Manufacturing methods are vastly improved, materials that were dreamed of being using in the '70's became reality, and on and on.

These days, the electronics are so good that, as was mentioned before, you can shape the sound you hear from them darned near any way you want. But if you want the old school warm sound, look into tubed electronics. Or buy a little better consumer electronics...it does make a difference.

Personally, trying to balance a computer habit along with a boat addiction and a resurfacing audio jones is tough, considering the money that each can consume if you allow. I recently redid my audio and after spending a couple of months being a zombie in the audio dens around Boston, I settled on NAD receivers and Paradigm Studio speakers----thanks to Q Audio in Cambridge. Yes, the Paradigms can be called a little bright on the upper end, but much less than old Klipsch.

The NAD receivers sounded much better than competing models from HK, Marantz, Sony (ES line), Onkyo, et al. Did almost get swayed to NAD's "companion" label, Anthem, but NAD won out in the end, mostly on price/sound/features.

I'd suggest at least looking into going this direction. If warmish speakers are what you seek, look into PSB, Totem, NHT. For power, I'd at least audition the NAD C316BEEE integrated amp, or Emotiva. But I don't know what kind of budget you have.

 

[hans030390]

This is going to make me seem like a hipster but I really like the warm sound of pre-80s audio gear. I'm not an audiophile at all (and actually find the audiophile preferred sound signature too bright and piercingly harsh) and just love the sound of old vinyl - warm, lush, with bass that's moving but not ghetto blasting.

I think you misunderstand what the preferred audiophile sound signature is, which is that of a neutral, flat, clean, and smooth response across the board. You would not find such gear to be harsh or bright, because then it would not be neutral, etc. Of course, everyone and their mom that's invested something in audio claim to be "audiophiles," so there's a lot of noise coming from people that don't really know what they're talking about. (There is nothing wrong with having personal preferences so long as you understand them.)

That said, I recently got a Sansui 5000A. Works great with my speakers and sounds fantastic with headphones that have a flat impedance curve (generally orthodynamics).

You can find modern gear that is designed more like vintage analog equipment, BTW. It's not always common, but you can find it.

 

[slackerinabox]

Well, I don't claim much expertise in the audio arena, but I've dabbled in it for over 40 years. Got training in audio from the military (one of 3 MOS's/"jobs" I trained in while serving--audio specialist, traffic analysist in the ASA, and an LPN). Got to "play" with some quite electronic stuff from McIntosh, Crown, etc.

But this discussion of vintage speakers takes me back to the various bits I've owned over the years.....Klipsch Klipschorns, quite a few '70's Marantz amps and receivers (am partial to them--still own a 2230 receiver that's out in my shed), B&O (decent sound, great style), a set of the original large Advents---wish I still had them--and a ton of other speakers over the decades (ESS AMT1's, Ohm Walsh, AR, etc., etc.), and every one had their weaknesses and strengths.

I ran on the audiophile treadmill for a couple of decades until I realized the money was leaving faster than I wanted and also discovered my love for boats. So gave up the search for audio perfection, which doesn't exist anyway, and went "consumer" grade sound....and really haven't regretted it since. Mostly. Cannot brag about consumer level audio, but who really cares anyway? Besides, being an audiophile these days can lead to crap like Cream Electret from P.W.B. (meant to be smeared on cables, the outside of your electronics----really?) or their Rainbow Electret Foil, strips of crap meant to be applied over the CD logo on the label side of CD's or the 33 1/3 logo on an album----again, really? Snake oil abounds these days.

That said, I don't own any vintage audio any longer, outside the aforementioned Marantz receiver. Why? The new stuff, esp. the speakers, are just made better than what was technically and humanly possible decades before. Manufacturing methods are vastly improved, materials that were dreamed of being using in the '70's became reality, and on and on.

These days, the electronics are so good that, as was mentioned before, you can shape the sound you hear from them darned near any way you want. But if you want the old school warm sound, look into tubed electronics. Or buy a little better consumer electronics...it does make a difference.

Personally, trying to balance a computer habit along with a boat addiction and a resurfacing audio jones is tough, considering the money that each can consume if you allow. I recently redid my audio and after spending a couple of months being a zombie in the audio dens around Boston, I settled on NAD receivers and Paradigm Studio speakers----thanks to Q Audio in Cambridge. Yes, the Paradigms can be called a little bright on the upper end, but much less than old Klipsch.

The NAD receivers sounded much better than competing models from HK, Marantz, Sony (ES line), Onkyo, et al. Did almost get swayed to NAD's "companion" label, Anthem, but NAD won out in the end, mostly on price/sound/features.

I'd suggest at least looking into going this direction. If warmish speakers are what you seek, look into PSB, Totem, NHT. For power, I'd at least audition the NAD C316BEEE integrated amp, or Emotiva. But I don't know what kind of budget you have.

Thank you very much for your informed post! Part of my issue is preference - whenever I track down well reviewed headphones/speakers I'm always left with ringing ears! There's something wrong with me but, using my very well regarded etynomic headphones I purchased a few years ago as an example: everything considered mid-to-high end these days really seems to highlight clarity above all us (which is why I find reviews useless to me). Since I plan on collecting vinyl but have mostly high-bitrate mp3s, I find this signature far too revealing and fatiguing. On the flip side, just your average Fisher stereo from 30 years ago sound lovely to my ears.

The other part of the equation is budget - I already have a decent 5.1 system and it works just fine for movies, and I have a 2nd baby due in a few months. A used receiver and a sub-$500 budget total (speakers+receiver, I have the turntable already) is something I can do without permission (or, more precisely, feel guilty about). Seems like my budget could go much further vintage, but I am scared of broken, dirty, burned out gear. So I'm on the fence - I may just buy a $30 t-amp and the best speakers I could afford (mission and infinity were nice to my ears back in the day, don't see them in the marketplace that often)

 

[NutBucket]

Old solid state stuff sucked. Nostalgia not found.

Most old gear isn't that great.

Heresy! My audio receiver is a Sansui 9090. When I got it I had to fix the preamp section and do a full recap. Good luck fixing anything in a modern receiver. Anyhow, while materials and technology may have improved designing a linear amplified over audio frequency ranges certainly does not require "high-tech" materials unless you're aiming for ultimate efficiency. I like the fact the power amp is comprised of two transistor pairs. What more is needed? It sounds great (certainly better than my Denon HT receiver). My next project is overhauling a Pioneer tube receiver. It sits on a bench at work and occasionally I find some time to put into it.

As for speakers...there is no hard and fast rule IMHO. I seem to gravitate towards sealed designs so lots of Boston Acoustics for me. I use the same set of mains for HT and music. As far as old and new...just buy whatever sounds good. I wouldn't steer you away from anything based purely on age (unless age has adversely affected the condition). All speakers sound different and that's more or less by design.

Oh yeah, if you're not skilled to do repair/refurbishment yourself then I would probably tell you to be very careful when buying vintage gear. Just because its easy to work on doesn't mean you can find someone to do it cheaply. It still takes time. However, most of the time the stuff just keeps working. It was definitely built to last in the "golden age" of solid state.

 

[Aganazer]

I loved my old Conrad Johnson CAV50. Very warm sound and it had a great vintage look.

 

[iRONic]

Hey, I recognize that subwoofer. :biggrin:

Still going strong for you Ron?

Heh heh... Works like a champ and plays well with it's big brother on the other side of the room, Mike.

 

[blackangst1]

Vintage gear opens up a whole new can of worms, but can be very rewarding. If I were you I'd do some reading at Audio Karma. Probably the best site for vintage gear.

 

[Lewy]

Vintage gear opens up a whole new can of worms, but can be very rewarding. If I were you I'd do some reading at Audio Karma. Probably the best site for vintage gear.

http://www.lampizator.eu/

http://app.audiogon.com/

http://www.high-endaudio.com/


http://www.hi-fiworld.co.uk/

 

[Gintaras]

Vintage gear opens up a whole new can of worms, but can be very rewarding. If I were you I'd do some reading at Audio Karma. Probably the best site for vintage gear.

If you want to listen LPs, it does not mean you have to buy vintage audio gear. There are many new TT's manufactured, amps, speakers.
Audiophile - doesn't mean + or - to gear...etc...

LPs are still released, some old records are re-issued on vinyl...
And to get a good sound - a sound that Joe or Jane likes - does not mean that you have to spend a fortune of audio gear - new or vintage...

A couple of sites for gear:

Needle Doctor
Audio Advisory

 

[kornphlake]

Thank you very much for your informed post! Part of my issue is preference - whenever I track down well reviewed headphones/speakers I'm always left with ringing ears! There's something wrong with me but, using my very well regarded etynomic headphones I purchased a few years ago as an example: everything considered mid-to-high end these days really seems to highlight clarity above all us (which is why I find reviews useless to me). Since I plan on collecting vinyl but have mostly high-bitrate mp3s, I find this signature far too revealing and fatiguing. On the flip side, just your average Fisher stereo from 30 years ago sound lovely to my ears.

The other part of the equation is budget - I already have a decent 5.1 system and it works just fine for movies, and I have a 2nd baby due in a few months. A used receiver and a sub-$500 budget total (speakers+receiver, I have the turntable already) is something I can do without permission (or, more precisely, feel guilty about). Seems like my budget could go much further vintage, but I am scared of broken, dirty, burned out gear. So I'm on the fence - I may just buy a $30 t-amp and the best speakers I could afford (mission and infinity were nice to my ears back in the day, don't see them in the marketplace that often)

Just buy whatever you think sounds good, after all you're the one who has to listen to it. Audiophiles who buy thousand dollar cables, or bags of colored pebbles or color the edges of their CDs with a green sharpie do it because to them it sounds better, (and so they can ruffle feathers on message boards,) it shouldn't matter if what you like is scientifically right or wrong if it's the sound you like science and reason are irrelevant.

I wouldn't count on vintage being less expensive than modern, a lot of the more desirable vintage receivers sell for as much or more than a new receiver with a warranty, the vintage receivers that sell cheap are cheap, if that's the sound you like though, go for it.

 

[alkemyst]

I wouldn't count on vintage being less expensive than modern, a lot of the more desirable vintage receivers sell for as much or more than a new receiver with a warranty, the vintage receivers that sell cheap are cheap, if that's the sound you like though, go for it.

Definitely, just a tune up on a vintage receiver can run $200+ and most will need it done. That said most don't know they need that.

It's definitely not the economical way to go though. I have a old Nikko in my workshop, not a tube unit but has the swinging needles and all that neat stuff.