Question [Videocardz] nVidia planning 2060 12 GB

[jpiniero]

NVIDIA rumored to launch GeForce RTX 2060 with 12GB memory by January 2022 - VideoCardz.com

NVIDIA to reintroduce GeForce RTX 2060 with 12GB memory? We have new information on planned update to GeForce RTX 20 series. Back in January, it was reported that NVIDIA is bringing back a large stock of RTX 2060 graphics cards. This would be a direct response to the market situation at the...

videocardz.com

Could be released by January. Here's your answer for what they plan on doing with the Turing wafers that were meant for CMP.

 

[LightningZ71]

The 2060 super didn't even use gddr6x.

 

[jpiniero]

The 2060 super didn't even use gddr6x.

I think Shmee is talking about how Ampere's memory capacity throughout the lineup looks strange. You know with the 3060 having more than the 3070 and 3080.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

The 2060 12 GB replaces the 3050 Ti in the lineup.

I'm still surprised they didn't take the opportunity for a re-brand. Would be quick and easily done.

Could call it 3050S, 3055 or similar.

 

[Shmee]

Yeah I was kinda talking about that. Though afaik, only the 3070Ti and higher use GDDR6X, the others use GDDR6.

 

[LightningZ71]

The only option for Turing that I know of was the 15.5GBps gddr6 on the 2080 super. I'm assusing that they had the option to go that way with the 2060 12G if they wanted.

 

[Ajay]

Well, Nvidia are very good at capitalism, so more to sell at high profits (for an old card) sounds just about right. The enthusiast gamer market has about as much strength as a fart in the wind.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Hmm Nvidia has been making some really weird product options lately. Less memory then more memory then less then more, also the whole LHR issue, it boggles the mind :/

With record revenue, they are experiencing the Cartman effect -

Whatever I Do What I Want! - GIPHY Clips

Clips from South Park

giphy.com

On a more serious note: LTT has a speculation vid about it. TLDW - the ram probably lets partners use the same or similar PCBs that they currently produce. The chip will yield more per wafer than something with a bigger die like a 2070Super. Tapping production that is not already fully booked is a smart move?

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Well, Nvidia are very good at capitalism, so more too sell at high profits (for an old card) sounds just about right. The enthusiast gamer market has about as much strength as a fart in the wind.

Worse yet, most are paying the big markup and bragging about it. r/PCMR constantly has posts of the younger crowd thinking they scored because they got their card from a Best Buy drop or MicroCenter. That undoubtedly has retail execs twirling their evil mustaches.

 

[blckgrffn]

With record revenue, they are experiencing the Cartman effect -

Whatever I Do What I Want! - GIPHY Clips

Clips from South Park

giphy.com

On a more serious note: LTT has a speculation vid about it. TLDW - the ram probably lets partners use the same or similar PCBs that they currently produce. The chip will yield more per wafer than something with a bigger die like a 2070Super. Tapping production that is not already fully booked is a smart move?

Exactly. If they can use the 192 bit 2060 PCBs that seemingly never stopped production for OEMs and just juice it up with the full core and higher density ram then, it's a win for them.

The die size seems to be the same from 2060 thru 2070S at least...

NVIDIA TU104 GPU Specs

3072 Cores, 192 TMUs, 64 ROPs

www.techpowerup.com

2060S might be the sweet spot with the yield and power usage especially on what's probably cheaper PCBs.

NVIDIA TU106 GPU Specs

2304 Cores, 144 TMUs, 64 ROPs

www.techpowerup.com

OK, more research and it looks like the TU106 was more commonly used for 2060 cards, even if there seems to have been a run of cut TU104's used for 2060 cards as well. My bad.

TU104 is about 25% larger than TU106.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

OK, more research and it looks like the TU106 was more commonly used for 2060 cards, even if there seems to have been a run of cut TU104's used for 2060 cards as well. My bad.

TU104 is about 25% larger than TU106.

Yup, that was LTT's speculation on the reason for the choice. If accurate, it is smart biz. They also covered a point I have made. It should mean driver support for these cards for much longer than would originally be expected. Otherwise they will be abandoning owners that bought the product only a few years ago. Which they might; the Cartman effect is real.

 

[blckgrffn]

Yup, that was LTT's speculation on the reason for the choice. If accurate, it is smart biz. They also covered a point I have made. It should mean driver support for these cards for much longer than would originally be expected. Otherwise they will be abandoning owners that bought the product only a few years ago. Which they might; the Cartman effect is real.

To be fair, I was more excited about the 2060S core vs the stock 2060 core and paired with 12GB of ram for some longevity. You know, if it was slotted in UNDER the 3060. You, know, like $280 MSRP and like ~$560 street value (of course). The 2060S core is a solid piece of kit and what I think the 2060 should have essentially always been. It was always a little too cut down IMO. Which everyone knows is very important

But in a world where value is determined by hashrate vs performance and feature set well... it's not anything I need to pay attention to.

Even when the dust settles I will probably avoid the 2060 12GB under the assumption that it was mined on and has extra hundreds/thousands of hours on its fans, etc.

 

[Ajay]

Worse yet, most are paying the big markup and bragging about it. r/PCMR constantly has posts of the younger crowd thinking they scored because they got their card from a Best Buy drop or MicroCenter. That undoubtedly has retail execs twirling their evil mustaches.

I'll have to take a look. I know my 26 y/o nephew was *happy* to get a 2080Ti from Micro-Center for ~$1800 . That's more than twice as much as I payed for and older SLI system, when that was a thing. I had some hope for buying a new card sometime in 2023 - but the hashrates/watt are probably going to double so - IDK. I'll be buying games from 2020 or earlier for the next couple of years just hoping Bitcoin implodes for at least a few months.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I'll have to take a look. I know my 26 y/o nephew was *happy* to get a 2080Ti from Micro-Center for ~$1800 . That's more than twice as much as I payed for and older SLI system, when that was a thing. I had some hope for buying a new card sometime in 2023 - but the hashrates/watt are probably going to double so - IDK. I'll be buying games from 2020 or earlier for the next couple of years just hoping Bitcoin implodes for at least a few months.

I play a lot of games on Ryzen APUs, not because I have to, they just don't need any more power than that.

 

[maddie]

I'll have to take a look. I know my 26 y/o nephew was *happy* to get a 2080Ti from Micro-Center for ~$1800 . That's more than twice as much as I payed for and older SLI system, when that was a thing. I had some hope for buying a new card sometime in 2023 - but the hashrates/watt are probably going to double so - IDK. I'll be buying games from 2020 or earlier for the next couple of years just hoping Bitcoin implodes for at least a few months.

Can't remember if I ever made this observation, but here goes. Shouldn't the whole gaming ecosystem start to suffer from this shortage/high price situation, if it continues? A few years of this and we're in new territory.

 

[LightningZ71]

What made the 2060 super desirable was that it had the same memory bandwidth of the 2070 series, with the 2070 chip just cut don a bit internally. It could be made to boost well enough to keep close enough to the 2070 to be worth it.

I would think that miners would rather have the old 8gb 2060 super as mining seems to bememory bandwidth constrained once you are past 5.5 GB. 12GB at 192 bits should make for worse mining than 8GB at 256 bits. However, the one bench I saw for this was the opposite.

 

[Ajay]

Can't remember if I ever made this observation, but here goes. Shouldn't the whole gaming ecosystem start to suffer from this shortage/high price situation, if it continues? A few years of this and we're in new territory.

Yes, I do wonder. Then again, seems like a they are selling well, even to gamers. I do wonder if those who stick with lower tier or middle tier cards are just. I typically buy around the $400-500 range. I'm pretty cheesed off right now and wonder how many are in the same boat. I could probably bump that up by $200 hoping to get 5 years out of it. I bought my current GPU ~4 years ago for $450, IIRC.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

Worse yet, most are paying the big markup and bragging about it. r/PCMR constantly has posts of the younger crowd thinking they scored because they got their card from a Best Buy drop or MicroCenter. That undoubtedly has retail execs twirling their evil mustaches.

- No kidding. So many "I scored a 3070 for $1100 MSRP!" posts on there, as though MSRP is the sticker price when the card is sitting on the shelf. FOMO is in maximum overdrive right now and people are paying absurd prices on hardware to play the next cookie cutter Ubisoft open world garbage.

If this keeps up I'll be sitting out of the rat race for a good long while.

 

[LightningZ71]

The solution to all of this is decent desktop APUs...

 

[Fanatical Meat]

The solution to all of this is decent desktop APUs...

Then they’ll see out and prices would increase.
I do agree decent APUs would help.
Problem to me is simply production. Not enough places making chips.

 

[Thibsie]

The solution to all of this is decent desktop APUs...

I dunno if this is THE solution but it seems to be an elegant one at first sight.
At least as long as APU prices don't explode ...

 

[VirtualLarry]

At least as long as APU prices don't explode ...

As long as it's pointless to "mine" on APU's IGPU portion, then I don't think you'll have anything to worry about. 128-bit DDR4 memory bus (same thing as GT 1030 "sucktastic edition") isn't really amenable to mining.

We'll see once DDR5 and DDR5-utilizing APUs (RDNA2-based) come out, whether those are suitable for mining at all. Better pray that they aren't.

 

[LightningZ71]

They'll be useless, or as close as possible to it, for mining as long as they can't break even with respect to cost of purchase, energy usage and mining production. APUs, unless they get some sort of integrated memory that is larger than the DAG, will not have sufficient memory bandwidth to compete with any dGPU, so long as their memory bandwidth is below 200GB/sec. The only APU that theoreticallymight be in danger is the M1max, and that's trapped in the Apple ecosystem. Infinity cache won't really put APUs in danger either.

On top of all of that, you have to deal with the cost of thermal management. Using an APU for mining will generate a lot of heat, which will need a solid heat sink as well, which will also add to break even cost.

AMD, if they chose to, could make an APU that was essentially a 5800x, with 64MB of stacked cache to operate as an infinity cache and a 20cu RDNA2 iGPU with quad channel DDR5 memory controller with only four actual dimm slots to keep board costs down and sell every one that they make at $200 over what they charge for the 5800x now. That would be a perfectly competent gaming solution for high quality 1080p gaming for 90% of the market. They won't, of course, but they could. It wouldn't even require developing any new IP, save for a socket. And, as a bonus, even after all of that, it wouldn't be interesting to miners because, even with quad channel DDR5, it would still suck at mining.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Hear me out here,
The main reason to own a current $500 or greater card is games. I know there is VR and rendering and so on too just seems like those are either work thing that generate money like mining does or a luxury like VR.
As of now to me it appears people making games should code so all resources are used effectively and focus more of “fun” vs “eye candy”. There are many games you can play on an old card and have a very good experience. Basically make games more fun and less pretty.

 

[Thibsie]

We'll see once DDR5 and DDR5-utilizing APUs (RDNA2-based) come out, whether those are suitable for mining at all. Better pray that they aren't.

Oh, yeah.
We need acceptable pricing.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

The solution to all of this is decent desktop APUs...

Counter opinion- AMD already makes good desktop APUs. I can play well over a 100 games in my personal library with a 5600g or 5700G. Many of those with maxed out or higher settings 1080p. Forza Horizon 5 just came out and you can do better than locked 30 1440p low with either APU.

If someone demands to be able to play Warzone, BF 2042, Tarkov, or the big AAA's at higher settings and refresh? I say pony up or shut up. Particularly applicable to our crowd i.e. financially secure, older, and evidently, salty. When most of the members here complain, I check it off as old man screams at clouds. "It's the principle of the thing! They ain't extorting me! I never paid more than X amount, and I ain't doing it now! I'll buy a console! I'll stop gaming, and they'll be sorry! 60fps is minimum! I'm a high refresh gamer! I play at 4K" or whatever fist shaking at the clouds complaint is made. For me it translate to "Do you have any Grey Poupon?" Pay up if that is your bag Mr. Fancy pants.

Myself? I just started Halo Infinite. It is way too hardware demanding for the way it looks. I suspect it will be like MSFS and get a performance patch later that improves things quite a bit. But my 2070Super is good enough. If all I had was my 5700G though, I'd make it work. Or I'd skip it and play older games I missed or was wanting to play again. I played the Master Chef collection on the 5700G just fine, to get hyped for Infinite. There are many more. GTAV is still one of the most played games, and a 5700G can do 1080p high with above 60fps. I will stop there, since I think that illustrates my point well enough.

TLDR - If you don't think the 5 series APUs are decent, then it is my considered opinion that the problem is you, not the APUs. And if your contention revolves around hardware crushing modern games? My response is - pony up or shut up. Life ain't fair, and you are old enough to know that having caviar taste and tuna budget is a character flaw.

And this not targeted at anyone in particular, despite the quote. I am strongly opinionated on this subject, that's all.