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[video] This is the Israel 'Defense' Forces

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cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
If you look back in time and add up who controls the land of Israel, you get a long list. If you remove nations which no longer exist (Romans, Assyrians, Babylonians) and only bother with those who currently exist, the list gets much shorter. Since it is impossible to give land to a nation which does not exist any longer (short of recreating it - but then you have to give all its lands back, something no one will ever agree to do), it makes sense to use the shorter list of nations which currently exist.

I believe that the paying of tribute to a nation means that nations controls the land, so I added that time period to the land receiving the tribute.

Using that, we find two nations which appear at the top of the list...with the others being far behind by a few centuries. The two nations are Egypt and Israel. This should not be a surprise to anyone. Due to the fuzziness of the ancient past, which one is the longest controller is up for debate.

Egypt has already stated Israel has the right to control the area, giving up their claim to the land. That leaves only Israel as the rightful controller of the land.



Another way of showing who should control it is to look at how the current controllers gained control. The UK owned the area by winning it in war from the Ottoman Empire. The peace treaty gave control to the UK, making them the rightful controller by International Law. They gave control of a portion of that land to Israel and split up the rest of the land amongst the Arab nations. These nations then invaded Israel several times, losing control of more land each time. At this point things become murky and the legitimacy of the claim of control depends on which rules you decide you like and therefor say apply.
 
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Alaa

Senior member
Apr 26, 2005
839
8
81
If you look back in time and add up who controls the land of Israel, you get a long list. If you remove nations which no longer exist (Romans, Assyrians, Babylonians) and only bother with those who currently exist, the list gets much shorter. Since it is impossible to give land to a nation which does not exist any longer (short of recreating it - but then you have to give all its lands back, something no one will ever agree to do), it makes sense to use the shorter list of nations which currently exist.

I believe that the paying of tribute to a nation means that nations controls the land, so I added that time period to the land receiving the tribute.

Using that, we find two nations which appear at the top of the list...with the others being far behind by a few centuries. The two nations are Egypt and Israel. This should not be a surprise to anyone. Due to the fuzziness of the ancient past, which one is the longest controller is up for debate.

Egypt has already stated Israel has the right to control the area, giving up their claim to the land. That leaves only Israel as the rightful controller of the land.



Another way of showing who should control it is to look at how the current controllers gained control. The UK owned the area by winning it in war from the Ottoman Empire. The peace treaty gave control to the UK, making them the rightful controller by International Law. They gave control of a portion of that land to Israel and split up the rest of the land amongst the Arab nations. These nations then invaded Israel several times, losing control of more land each time. At this point things become murky and the legitimacy of the claim of control depends on which rules you decide you like and therefor say apply.
The thing is that the Jews claimed this land to be their own long after the departed it just because of a religious promise. The land became inhabited by many different groups before the Jews decided to take it from the current inhabitants. They didn't only take military control like the UK or Ottomans or even Arabs.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,991
2
0
Who started the war in 1948?

Who started the war in 1967?

Who rejected the Oslo Accords and instead started the Intifada in 1993?
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Who started the war in 1948?----------point granted it was the Arabs. But not the Palestinians.

Who started the war in 1967?-----------Actually it was the Israelis.

Who rejected the Oslo Accords---------Its somewhat a very good but not simple question. Israel may have dangled the carrot of giving up land it did not own and never will own, but Arifat refused to ink the deal because he refused to sign away the right to return and legitimate claims to Palestinian land stolen by Israel in 1948. As the right to return is still a very strong issue and will never go away. Today's Israel faces a bozo Netanyuhu issue, because if Israel demands to much, they may end up with nothing.

Israel still has excellent PR in only the USA, as for the rest of the world, Israeli cred has been going down the toilet at ever accelerating rate.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,991
2
0
We can also look at how the Israelis got ejected from the so called holy land they claimed circa the first century AD, an event still called the second diaspora.

There was no anti-semitism in the Roman decision to give the Israelis the ole heave ho. When in fact the Romam empire was perfectly willing to work with Israeli Jews and in fact had a 2 century prior record of doing so. But when Israeli Jews "climbed Mt Masada", and over reached themselves in arrogantly defying the Romans, they got on Rome's last nerve and Rome sent most of them packing. And as a Mid-east Jewish power presence, Jews were missing in action for some 1900 years.

Now the Israeli Jews are back in control of Israel, but still if Israeli Jews again over reach, history may well repeat itself in the fullness of time.
 

iGas

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2009
6,240
1
0
IMHO, both side are behaving poorly, and perhaps they should grow up and solve the issue as adults.

Stop stealing people land, water, freedom, and bombing/shooting/killing.
 

QuantumPion

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2005
6,017
1
76
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Who started the war in 1967?-----------Actually it was the Israelis.
Um, no. That's like saying Han initiated the violence against Greedo by shooting first. Even though Han had a gun pointed at him and Greedo said he was about to shoot him.

Who rejected the Oslo Accords---------Its somewhat a very good but not simple question.
No, it's not. The Palestinians rejected the Oslo accords and left the peace talks unilaterally. They then initiated the Intifada against Israeli civilians. This is indisputable fact.
 

QuantumPion

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2005
6,017
1
76
IMHO, both side are behaving poorly, and perhaps they should grow up and solve the issue as adults.

Stop stealing people land, water, freedom, and bombing/shooting/killing.
How is Israel supposed to have peace talks when the arabs won't show up to the peace talks and instead declare war on Israel over and over again? Israel can't make the arabs want peace. The arabs have to want peace, and they have shown time and time again that they do not want peace.

This is not a case of "everyone is at fault". There is a clear aggressor and cause of violence, and it is not Israel. If the arabs would accept the Jews right to exist, there would be peace today. If Israel ceases to defend themselves, they would be wiped out.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,599
5
0
The thing is that the Jews claimed this land to be their own long after the departed it just because of a religious promise. The land became inhabited by many different groups before the Jews decided to take it from the current inhabitants. They didn't only take military control like the UK or Ottomans or even Arabs.
they also took control by purchase from existing Arabs.
w/ respect to the West Bank it was under Jordanian control from '48 until '67 when Jordan was whipped by Israel.

Jordan never wanted the West Bank area back.
Even though not in control; they handed it over to the Palestinians.
Yet the Palestinians were not a nation; nor was Jordan in control of that area
In return the Palestinians created the Black September in Jordan. Very appreciative.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,599
5
0
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Who started the war in 1948?----------point granted it was the Arabs. But not the Palestinians. Palestinians made up a large part of the forces against Israel though. Armed with weapons from the British.

Who started the war in 1967?-----------Actually it was the Israelis.
When the enemy is knocking on your door with dynamite; you do not let them in; you get rid of them. Israel beat the Arabs to the punch by hours. Some reports have Jordan firing on Israel from the West Bank before Israel struck at Egypt.

Who rejected the Oslo Accords---------Its somewhat a very good but not simple question. Israel may have dangled the carrot of giving up land it did not own and never will own, but Arifat refused to ink the deal because he refused to sign away the right to return and legitimate claims to Palestinian land stolen by Israel in 1948. The Palestinians walked out of Oslo and started the intifada. They showed that they wanted everything and if they could not get it; they were willing to fight. but when they fight they always complain if Israel retaliates. As the right to return is still a very strong issue and will never go away. Today's Israel faces a bozo Netanyuhu issue, because if Israel demands to much, they may end up with nothing.
The Palestinians walked out of Oslo and started the intifada. They showed that they wanted everything and if they could not get it; they were willing to fight. but when they fight they always complain if Israel retaliates.

Israel still has excellent PR in only the USA, as for the rest of the world, Israeli cred has been going down the toilet at ever accelerating rate.
as usual rose colored glasses.

Actual is in bold
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,599
5
0
It's like peace with the mafia.
That is attainable as long as the mafia is left alone to operate and given guidelines by society on what will and not be acceptable.

Israel has provided those guidelines.
the Palestinians and Arabs refuse to work with those guidelines.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,599
5
0
good job finding that image.

Move forward along side Israel as a partner or stay in the stone ages rules by religion concepts that do not adapt.

Proper selection of a image that finally shows you as a valuable member that does think.
 

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